Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Huehuecoyotl]

You can't compare a company giving players the option to catch up to their friends and say thats not immersion. That's adding more players to the world to make the game and community a better place.

If they wanted their players to have the chance to catch up, they would have given them boosts to 90. The fact that they decided to sell them tells you everything you need to know about what motivated that particular feature.

And more players not knowing how to play coming into heroics and LFR is going to help the community become a better place? Good luck with that.

[Deleted]

Is there a conclusion yet? Or is the the release of Warlords of Draenor gonna release you guys as well?

[Ninepenny]

Also i cant believe people still fall to their cheap PR propaganda.

There is nothing to fall to here - it's just that some of us see the reasons behind their changes and agree with them.

Bots will have to be re-programmed to dodge mobs in the same manner that a human player would do, and it will be difficult to make one that can always completely avoid mods. The changes do not favor bots.

Most farming bot programs have sets of combat/rotation behaviors for certain classes/specs - in some cases, you can actually create your own ones which fit your talents better. Obviously it will be a harder time for farming bots now, which is another plus for no-flying

No, I never used one of those - just familiar with how they work.

[Maneo]

Sure they dont. They just replace 280% flight speed by 100% crawl speed. And surely they dont want to add a brick wall to the start of the expansion. As they never did that before. As like with the mandatory dailies in MoP. Or as like the too hard 5 mans in Catacylsm. Or as like with the attunements in TBC.

No! Blizzard would never do that! It's also not about the money they make from chinese players which pay per hour! No!

Also i cant believe people still fall to their cheap PR propaganda. If they only had in mind to stop people from flying while doing events and quests, they just could have limited it to those. They are just only interested in finding the best way to gain hours played, and dont care about immersion or gameplay.

That is why we have terms like sheeple and fan boys.

And at the end they just will turn it back on. Remember my words, when they want to sell the next flying mount for a "give a rich fat kid from the make-a-wish-foundation his gold plushie he wants before he is dying because of eating burgers"-pseudo-charity.

I hope they do turn it back on but calling out the Make a Wish thing is low. I commend any company or organization that takes part in that program.

[Nayaga]

Most farming bot programs have sets of combat/rotation behaviors for certain classes/specs - in some cases, you can actually create your own ones which fits your talents better. Obviously it will be a harder time for farming bots now, which is another plus for no-flying

No, I never used one of those - just familiar with how they work.

Bots worked in Vanilla and will work in WoD, flying or not.

Bots work in BG's and there is no flying there.

You're grasping at straws.

[Maneo]

You miss my point or just don't get it. You are so set to get your WPVP that you are unwilling to see both sides of the arguement.

That is a condition that the majority if anti flight people seem to be afflicted with they have such a hard on for WPVP they are unable to see how this is a negative thing.

We can both have what we want, stop being greedy!

You would think it wouldn't be hard worked well for 7 years.

Is there a conclusion yet? Or is the the release of Warlords of Draenor gonna release you guys as well?

Nope the first live stream was nothing but the cinematic, release date and blizz jerking themselves off some more.

There is nothing to fall to here - it's just that some of us see the reasons behind their changes and agree with them.

I seriously doubt you are happy because of Blizzards reasons. You are happy cause you have a hardon for WPVP

[Ninepenny]

Bots worked in Vanilla and will work in WoD, flying or not.

And obviously they'll have a harder time than before.

As to your previous post...how long do I have to repeat myself before you realize that wpvp is irrelevant to this discussion? I stand behind them cause I completely understand why they had to do it from a designers' PoV.

[WyvernVin]

Damn i was waiting for some good reason to re-sub and this kind of $#!+ keeps coming out.

So far WoD has only 2 selling points for me, garrisons and new character models ...the rest keeps me out, if at least they add flying when hitting 100 as in MoP, i'd be back in no time. I'm already losing hope...

*sigh*

[Maneo]

Damn i was waiting for some good reason to re-sub and this kind of $#!+ keeps coming out.

So far WoD has only 2 selling points for me, garrisons and new character models ...the rest keeps me out, if at least they add flying when hitting 100 as in MoP, i'd be back in no time. I'm already losing hope...

*sigh*

yeah I would be back in game tomorrow if it was announced today that flight would return in 6.1.

[Ninepenny]

I seriously doubt you are happy because of Blizzards reasons. You are happy cause you have a hardon for WPVP

I understand why they did as I understand why would a parent take away Coca Colla bottle from their child's mouth. I don't have to be a happy about it to understand that it is right.

It's just in this particular case I get a small accidental collateral benefit.

[zEmini]

So what is the latest on this?

They are going to allow flying for 6.1 still right?

What about flying mounts? Can we ride them on the ground? How will people deal with all the massive proto-drakes jumping around?

[Elim Garak]

They are going to allow flying for 6.1 still right?

No, they will allow you to fly in 6.0 as soon as 6.1 ships. But you won't be able to fly in 6.1 content.

[Anzaman]

yeah I would be back in game tomorrow if it was announced today that flight would return in 6.1.

I know it's pretty much repeating the same which I've said and you have said, but I'll just say it in general feel - I find it extremely unlikely for them to delay flying any further than first major patch.

What I saw from the blue post from almost year ago and the "latest", and both of them were pretty much talking the same about releasing flying in first major patch, 6.1. Sure they tend to drop some sentence after it, but that's just lazy way of saying "we listen our players and appreciate the feedback", but yeah... when they themselves said that it's pretty much half/half situation, it'd be bad business to delay it any further than most of the pro-fliers can endure.

- - - Updated - - -

They are going to allow flying for 6.1 still right?

We still think a 6.1 patch seems like a pretty reasonable point where flying would become available in Draenor, likely with some kind of aforementioned prerequisite. Maybe it's gold, maybe it's some kind of epic quest, maybe something more straightforward.

What about flying mounts? Can we ride them on the ground?

Yes, flying mounts can be used to ride on ground in no-fly areas.

[Deleted]

And obviously they'll have a harder time than before.

As to your previous post...how long do I have to repeat myself before you realize that wpvp is irrelevant to this discussion? I stand behind them cause I completely understand why they had to do it from a designers' PoV.

Please explain how it is a smart move then. If players are skipping your content with X mechanic, why is it clever to remove said mechanic, when all it does is make players move straight on to use Y mechanic to skip the content. If that is then removed, hey, we go straight on to Z mechanic. Why not just give an incentive to actually not skip the content in the first place?

[Osmeric]

Please explain how it is a smart move then. If players are skipping your content with X mechanic, why is it clever to remove said mechanic, when all it does is make players move straight on to use Y mechanic to skip the content. If that is then removed, hey, we go straight on to Z mechanic. Why not just give an incentive to actually not skip the content in the first place?

Or because, you know, players may not have a Y or Z mechanic to skip said content.

Tell me, why doesn't your argument work against ANY obstacle the game could throw in your path? You know, the infamous "you're just asking for gear to be mailed to you" slur. You aren't asking for that, but why are some hoops to be jumped through acceptable, but not no-flying?

[Maneo]

So what is the latest on this?

Nothing new

They are going to allow flying for 6.1 still right?

Maybe they will maybe they won't give 50 bucks and wait and see

What about flying mounts? Can we ride them on the ground? How will people deal with all the massive proto-drakes jumping around?

Last I read flying mounts can be used on the ground.

Please explain how it is a smart move then. If players are skipping your content with X mechanic, why is it clever to remove said mechanic, when all it does is make players move straight on to use Y mechanic to skip the content. If that is then removed, hey, we go straight on to Z mechanic. Why not just give an incentive to actually not skip the content in the first place?

Because that is hard. Would require more work from the dev team that is obviously creatively and intellectually bankrupt.

Seriously personal flight is the only original idea Blizzard ever had in regards to a open world MMO. Flight is the one major thing that set them apart from other MMOs and they have a genius idea to remove it when it has worked fine for 7 years.

- - - Updated - - -

Or because, you know, players may not have a Y or Z mechanic to skip said content.

Tell me, why doesn't your argument work against ANY obstacle the game could throw in your path? You know, the infamous "you're just asking for gear to be mailed to you" slur. You aren't asking for that, but why are some hoops to be jumped through acceptable, but not no-flying?

Again max level content after a couple of weeks tops is going to consist of dailies (now weekly), pet battles, fishing, gathering, archeology etc etc all tedious tasks yes?

How is removing flight going to make those tasks more fun.

Hell it does the exact opposite it makes those tedious tasks that were much less tedious w/flight and could even be sometimes fun, more tedious at best a chore at worst.

Simple question what does the removal of flight add to the game?

[Nayaga]

And obviously they'll have a harder time than before.

It is not "obviously they'll have a harder time than before".

Bots are very common in BG's and guess what? There is no flying in BG's and somehow bots are still common place. Get a clue!

As to your previous post...how long do I have to repeat myself before you realize that wpvp is irrelevant to this discussion?

You have cried about WPvp and flying many times in this post.

Wpvp is not a car race where you see each other from the start. Element of surprise, terrain or number advantage, range slows, being a counter-class, all comes into play.

I stand behind them cause I completely understand why they had to do it from a designers' PoV.

Had to "do it" from a designers PoV. Do what?

[Deleted]

Or because, you know, players may not have a Y or Z mechanic to skip said content.

Tell me, why doesn't your argument work against ANY obstacle the game could throw in your path? You know, the infamous "you're just asking for gear to be mailed to you" slur. You aren't asking for that, but why are some hoops to be jumped through acceptable, but not no-flying?

Well in this case Y would be ground mounts, and Z would be various kinds of sprint / blink / feign death / whatever. In the case of other hoops, lets say heroic dungeons and raids, it is because in those cases there are certain other important factors in play:

1. Teamwork. Working together in coordination with others is part of what makes an MMO good. We should be able to agree that this is good, and does not currently exist in the open world, really.

2. Meaningful rewards. When you jump through those hoops in heroic dungeons and raids, you get useful rewards in a timely manner. When doing quests you either get nothing of value (Other than achievements, etc.), or the value you get is gated behind repeating the jump through the hoop 100 more times. If you had to kill 100 raid bosses to get a single item, people would not find raiding as enjoyable. Also, faction related epics are usually somewhat subpar and will be replaced quickly if you also raid, so theres also that.

3. Actual challenge. In the open world, everything is tuned to such a low level that every player in the game can handle it. This means that for the vast majority of players (Top 60-70%), the content is very trivial. When things get that trivial, you usually wouldn't mind it being a bit faster to do, since you are not really getting any reward or challenge from doing it anyway.

I hope those points make sense, since that is my current understanding of the situation.

[Maneo]

Had to "do it" from a designers PoV. Do what?

Not have to work as hard save Activision some money you know.

- - - Updated - - -

Well in this case Y would be ground mounts, and Z would be various kinds of sprint / blink / feign death / whatever. In the case of other hoops, lets say heroic dungeons and raids, it is because in those cases there are certain other important factors in play:

1. Teamwork. Working together in coordination with others is part of what makes an MMO good. We should be able to agree that this is good, and does not currently exist in the open world, really.

2. Meaningful rewards. When you jump through those hoops in heroic dungeons and raids, you get useful rewards in a timely manner. When doing quests you either get nothing of value (Other than achievements, etc.), or the value you get is gated behind repeating the jump through the hoop 100 more times. If you had to kill 100 raid bosses to get a single item, people would not find raiding as enjoyable. Also, faction related epics are usually somewhat subpar and will be replaced quickly if you also raid, so theres also that.

3. Actual challenge. In the open world, everything is tuned to such a low level that every player in the game can handle it. This means that for the vast majority of players (Top 60-70%), the content is very trivial. When things get that trivial, you usually wouldn't mind it being a bit faster to do, since you are not really getting any reward or challenge from doing it anyway.

I hope those points make sense, since that is my current understanding of the situation.

Crystal clear for me. Did you see the video of a level 92 beating the snot out of a level 100 in beta so much for a more savage dangerous world huh.

[Anzaman]

Had to "do it" from a designers PoV. Do what?

I guess this could fall under Blizzard's category of "We had to delay flying by a patch".

But sure there are a lot of other problems it can cause for content design such as zones having to get a lot bigger because flying mounts can travel so quickly (and thus making ground travel in them take much longer), it reduces the impact of elevation within zones, it completely removes the ability for us to pace or present content in any structured way, and in general removes our ability to determine how and when players approach a situation, see a vista or location, or charge into/out-of a combat situation. It just greatly reduces any gameplay we want to create by allowing infinite choice in how content is approached to best suit a player's intention to (usually) avoid that content.