Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Aeno]

Sadly BETA is down, so can't take screenshots of the flight paths from Garrison to destination X.

*Since Garrison is da base, and we live there!

It's funny, because they will still argue that the flight points are great. Scratch that, SUPERIOR to flying.

[Ordinator]

If you mean understand your lack of evidence, then I must say with certainty that I do.

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Highly subjective. For me, the flight points barely, BARELY scratch the surface of "fast travel". Flights were meant to take a lot of gold and give you an easy route in which you can afk. It was a mechanic from VANILLA. They're implementing it again but still so very poorly as they think it's a replacement for flying. And well, it's not.

So no, he's not being dramatic. It's an issue and trivializing it like you are is belittling his opinion.

The goal isn't fast travel. Fast travel in this genre of game doesn't work and is frowned upon by the majority of its player base.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...tion-of-travel

Did you view the map yet? And did you also view the flight pathes?

Heres is an example of your "extra super duper convenient flight pathes":



Here we see an example what blizzard understands as "convenient flight path". As you can see, this is a direct line from A) to B). Yes, Blizzard really knows people want to play the game instead of traveling a lot.

That's a cool MoP screen shot you got there. Could you actually try to post something relevant?

[Deleted]

Raids take 2-6 hours per night depending on skill and talent. Maybe you would like to just have it shortened to 10 minutes with free gear handed out at the exit.

Battlegrounds take 10-30 minutes. Perhaps you'd like to have those shortened to 3 minutes and have PvP gear waiting in your mailbox when you leave the instance and pop back up in Stormwind.

Dungeons take 15-45 minutes depending on their size an difficulty.
Archaeology takes 10 hours to level
Fishing takes 6 hours to level
Most professions take about 12-18 hours /played time
World Events take 15-45 minutes, and some are dailies which can take the entire week
Cutscenes take 2-10 minutes based on the cinematic

At this point, with your extreme hate of timesinks, it occurs to me that as a Casual Player, you are more interested in logging in, having it all handed to you, flying around for 5 minutes, and logging out. That's not how this MMO works, and you just need to figure out a way to deal with it.

Please explain to me how transportation is an engaging type of gameplay. If it is not, then the comparisons you make are utterly ridicoulus. But then again, people do that all the time in this thread, mostly the anti-fly people. Short summary:

"We need to fly to stay competitive!" - In an open world, with ZERO competitive content. Please explain further, or realize that it is not true. If this is not true, you have the ability to use a ground mount right now, but choose not to. Your fault, not ours.

"They need to remove flying to make the gameplay more compelling!" - They say that, but have not shown a single example of actually DOING it. The quests are exactly the same as they have always been (For the most part).

"You can use flight paths + ground mounts, and not lose too much time, stop crying" - 1. Flight paths are loading screens, with artificially inflated loading times. Not fun. 2. Transportation by land is never going to be as quick as transportation by air in wow. Now, this may not be a big deal to you (Since you are probably not even doing much open world content in the first place), but it adds up, and it most certainly gets frustrating in the long run. The first time you have to ride up this big, mysterious mountain, sure, it is cool. The 5th time? Not so much. The 10th time? Oh god make it stop.

"You don't complain about not being able to fly in dungeons/raids/battlegrounds/arenas!" - Nope, but there is a very important distinction to be made there. Those places have: Tightly packed mobs, Engaging gameplay, and meaningful rewards (Possibly more, but those are the 3 big ones). You know what the open world does not have? Engaging gameplay (Thanks to balancing around the worst players in the game), and meaningful rewards. If you take those two out of wow, see how many people would be left playing the game.

So yeah, the arguments from the anti-fly crowd are pretty much utterly horrible. Now you can say that you are right all day long, but I still haven't seen anything that even remotely resembles a counter-argument to the points I just listed. So please, feel free to do it now.

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The goal isn't fast travel. Fast travel in this genre of game doesn't work and is frowned upon by the majority of its player base.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...tion-of-travel


That's a cool MoP screen shot you got there. Could you actually try to post something relevant?

Flightpaths are as messed up as that in the beta currently. So yeah, pretty relevant I would say. They said they would fix them, but improvement is extremely slow and I doubt it will make it for release.

[Deleted]

That's a cool MoP screen shot you got there. Could you actually try to post something relevant?

.. as like a convenient path from WoD?



Here you are. So much convenience. You need to leave Gorgrond to fly to Gorgrond.

So much time to use a flight path to do.. nothing. But i am sure that special flight path would allow you to watch another part of "Big Bang Theory" during traveling.

Blizzard is a real master when it comes to time sinks. I wonder they didnt call WoD WoT, while it infact is World of Timesinks already.

[Ordinator]

.. as like a convenient path from WoD?



Here you are. So much convenience. You need to leave Gorgrond to fly to Gorgrond.

So much time to use a flight path to do.. nothing. But i am sure that special flight path would allow you to watch another part of "Big Bang Theory" during traveling.

Blizzard is a real master when it comes to time sinks. I wonder they didnt call WoD WoT, while it infact is World of Timesinks already.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13816271516

[Osmeric]

My evidence is, that blizzard spread out their endgame content thruout the world. So you have to travel a lot. But you may ignore that, as usual.

I don't believe you are actually so stupid as to think you just made your case with that statement. No, spreading content throughout the world does not mean manual flying is a major part of anyone's playing time. You really have no evidence to back yourself up.

When I am playing WoW, most of my time is spent at level cap, where most of the content is instanced, and where travel to world zones is mostly done by teleport or flight points. The notion that anyone spends a substantial fraction of their playing time manually piloting a flying mount around the landscape is insultingly ridiculous.

[Anzaman]

Heres is an example of your "extra super duper convenient flight pathes":

http://i.imgur.com/krJnyPR.jpg

Here we see an example what blizzard understands as "convenient flight path". As you can see, this is a direct line from A) to B). Yes, Blizzard really knows people want to play the game instead of traveling a lot.

Alright, here's a screenshot of your flight-path. Assuming that your "I AM HERE" was actually Veiled Stair.



First I decided to take the taxi from Veiled Stair to the Arboretum. It took me about 1 minute and 22 seconds via flight path.

Then I decided to mount-up and fly there myself with my 310% Swift Blue Gryphon plus Heart of the Crusader -passive for additional 20% speed. It took me about 1 minute 15 seconds flying there myself, and tested it few times and every sample was close to it.

Now, what I could see from results - the time difference was about ~10 seconds. How critical is this, when you needed to fly there once a day for the daily Quests?

[Deleted]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13816271516

And you think they will fix anything?

[shadowstep]

.. as like a convenient path from WoD?



Here you are. So much convenience. You need to leave Gorgrond to fly to Gorgrond.

So much time to use a flight path to do.. nothing. But i am sure that special flight path would allow you to watch another part of "Big Bang Theory" during traveling.

Cmon man, dont you know whats going to happen now? you are going to be bashed by the same ppl, they are going to say that you are wrong, that its beta, that blizzard can do no wrong, that we should obey, that there is nothing wrong with the game, that you are playing the wrong game, they are going to insult you and call you dishonest etc etc.......
i dont even have to point out names... just by reading the latest responses to your posts by some ppl in here and then going to read their post history its easy to see that they will NEVER TRY to see it from your point of view....

[Deleted]

Now, what I could see from results - the time difference was about ~10 seconds. How critical is this, when you needed to fly there once a day for the daily Quests?

It is critical, because you forget the time you need to travel while doing the quests. Also, do you play that quest hub only?

You forget some variables here.

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i dont even have to point out names... just by reading the latest responses to your posts by some ppl in here and then going to read their post history its easy to see that they will NEVER TRY to see it from your point of view....

It is hard to convince fans of a game that the creator of the game is no nice santa claus, but a billion dollar company, that makes a lot of money from hours played.

Blizzard grew a special audience. In the case of blizzard entertainment fan is not just a abbreviation of fanatic, but it includes the special attribute "hostile". I refer to walter as an example, who needs to use stereotypes to distract from his lack of arguments.

[Osmeric]

It is critical, because you forget the time you need to travel while doing the quests.

Being on the ground interacting with mobs is part of the quest experience, so what you are really talking about there is using your mount to avoid content.

Cry us a river, please.

[-Superman-]

But traveling is not playing the game. Traveling is additional time where you do nothing. And have no benefit.

Logging in is not playing the game
Selecting a realm is not playing
Waiting for the realm to load is not playing
Going afk to piss while waiting for a raid is not playing

You have some very strict vocabulary, and it appears you really are just here to pick a fight.

[shadowstep]

I don't believe you are actually so stupid as to think you just made your case with that statement. No, spreading content throughout the world does not mean manual flying is a major part of anyone's playing time. You really have no evidence to back yourself up.

When I am playing WoW, most of my time is spent at level cap, where most of the content is instanced, and where travel to world zones is mostly done by teleport or flight points. The notion that anyone spends a substantial fraction of their playing time manually piloting a flying mount around the landscape is insultingly ridiculous.

im sorry mate but the only ridiculous thing around here is you.... maybe if you would stop insulting ppl you would not sound so ridiculous... hell i have seen ppl getting infracted in this topic for less, but i guess it pays off having "pals"..
i didnt know that you were the authority on what ppl should do with their game time, and i didnt know that we should all play the same way you do, cause if we dont we are stupid and ridiculous...

[Chipperbane]

No, people preferred to quest those days. Dungeons were a rare occasion. Nowadays, as there is dungeon finder, people mainly use dungeons to level up.

Simultaneously correct and incorrect.

The individual zones were so populated, because leveling was slower, that the dungeons were gathered in groups in the zones themselves while leveling. For instance, a Barrens general chat request for some people to run Wailing Caverns.

People pretty consistently ran the dungeons as they leveled - they didn't, however, tackle the same dungeon over and over again, or just dungeons. Leveling and dungeoneering were pretty much hand in hand.

Admittedly, some dungeons were never run because the zones simply had few quests - these were more difficult to gather a team for - Temple of Atal'Hakkar, for instance. Most of the time, these dungeons were run by people from other zones who were advertising there.

Saying dungeons were a rare occasion is, thus, simultaneously correct, and incorrect. People ran dungeons. Fairly frequently. But they ran them for the quests and drops, not leveling(which was merely a perk), and they didn't chain-run instances as frequently as is done now. I daresay nearly every Horde ran Shadowfang Keep leveling up in Classic WoW.

I'll be the first to say that I enjoyed dungeons infinitely more when I had to gather a team myself and run my way there. Now it's just a click of a button. That's boring. More to the point, it's impersonal.

[Deleted]

Logging in is not playing the game
Selecting a realm is not playing
Waiting for the realm to load is not playing
Going afk to piss while waiting for a raid is not playing

You have some very strict vocabulary, and it appears you really are just here to pick a fight.

Pretty sure people would start to ask questions if they started taking 5 minutes to load into the game. But when it is a flightpath it is okay of course, because reasons.

You are making some extremely strange comparisons, 3 of the things you listed are things they would try to optimize as much as possible (Loading time, you don't select a realm since it remembers the realm you usually play on, and again, loading time), and the last one is afk, and afk is afk. Not much to say about that.

Sigh. Is the ability to be reasonable and logical really this rare?

[Osmeric]

im sorry mate but the only ridiculous thing around here is you.... maybe if you would stop insulting ppl you would not sound so ridiculous... hell i have seen ppl getting infracted in this topic for less, but i guess it pays off having "pals"..
i didnt know that you were the authority on what ppl should do with their game time, and i didnt know that we should all play the same way you do, cause if we dont we are stupid and ridiculous...

So, you don't have any evidence either, I take it.

I guess I just missed all those people who log in and spend hours touring around on their flying mounts. I guess that never gets boring and they do it for months at a time. Yeah, that totally makes sense. Here I thought the game involved gear progression and instanced content with friends. But no, reward-less, mechanic-free flying is what people actually do.

[Deleted]

Being on the ground interacting with mobs is part of the quest experience, so what you are really talking about there is using your mount to avoid content.

Cry us a river, please.

Please explain to me your interactions, and please explain why I should also find it enjoyable. Then understand that I may still not find it enjoyable. Then understand that they are currently removing something that is a benefit to many players, and in return give us nothing.

[Anzaman]

It is critical, because you forget the time you need to travel while doing the quests. Also, do you play that quest hub only?

You forget some variables here.

Just used what you gave me; starting spot, destination and ways of travel.

[Deleted]

I don't believe you are actually so stupid as to think you just made your case with that statement.

So much for hostile.

No, spreading content throughout the world does not mean manual flying is a major part of anyone's playing time. You really have no evidence to back yourself up.

I have, you are just ignoring it. But hey, just go on. Normally you are Mr. Logic, but when it comes to WoW, you become Maximillian of Northshire, who needs to fight all those dragons that threaten to kill you beloved bloodelf.

The notion that anyone spends a substantial fraction of their playing time manually piloting a flying mount around the landscape is insultingly ridiculous.

Well, you need to travel a lot in WoD. As all those quest hubs, events and rares are spread thruout the world map. Even if you get more and more upset, kind sir.

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You have some very strict vocabulary, and it appears you really are just here to pick a fight.

No, as it is no real fight. It would be much more interesting if you actually had arguments.

[Deleted]

So, you don't have any evidence either, I take it.

I guess I just missed all those people who log in and spend hours touring around on their flying mounts. I guess that never gets boring and they do it for months at a time. Yeah, that totally makes sense. Here I thought the game involved gear progression and instanced content with friends. But no, reward-less, mechanic-free flying is what people actually do.

Mostly people do quests, rep grinds, achievements, archeology, pet battles, etc., only interrupted when they have to fly to the next point of interest. Please explain to me how those things become better, by increasing the amount of time between each activity because of slower transportation.

Edit: I mean, this is literally insanity. It is like arguing religion.

How can you people not understand that slowing down transportation is effectively the equivalent of adding pointless cooldowns to quest items, such as this quest?

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=11896/w...s-to-lightning

In this quest, there is a 20 sec cooldown on an item you have to use on mobs, before you kill them. It is one of the worst quests in wow. Slowing down transportation is effectively the exact same thing, except instead of a 20 sec cooldown between each individual kill, there is now an added cooldown between each point of interest. And what do we gain from that cooldown? Absolutely nothing.