Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Wrathonia]

What good would that do? They would just raise the price of honor gear to compensate - then everyone would have to trade-kills in World PvP just to be able to buy anything.

If they want World PvP, then there needs to be something to fight over. You should be able to conquer sub-zones and turn them red or blue. Keep conquering adjacent zones until you own the entire zone. At that point, the other side loses the ability to quest there and use connecting flight paths through it until they retake it. Those zones would become littered with flying NPCs and ranged artillery that would make flying through it absolute death.

This type of system would obviously require Blizzard to keep the server's active population balanced though.

The real problem with World PvP is that there is literally nothing to fight over. No way to "win". No way to declare a "winner". It's just kill each other until you get tired of killing and someone moves on/logs off, usually out of rage. On top of that, there is no in-game mechanic to deal with grey-killers/gankers/grievers/etc. That alone hinders PvP server populations from attracting young blood.

You had me....and then you lost me. You must not have played in vanilla. You must not have rememebered all the failed world pvp objectives. The EPL towers and the lolsand. They might have had some traction on pvp servers, but they were complete failures on pve servers. Mind you, back in vanilla I did the rare owpvp. I found it interesting and fairly even. It could go either way and you never felt completely gimped or weak unless it was a shaman doing 2h windfury procs or a reckoning bomb paladin. But those were gimmicky builds.

But no, the pvp itself needs to be rewarding, not some objective that people will likely ignore.

[Infernix]

That's the way it looks to me. I cancelled, but then I cancel my subscription every time they do/announce anything stupid and I always come back eventually so who knows if they care any more.

I don't see how removing things people have spent tons of time and gold on is making the game better. Every time they talk about lack of availability of flying it just sounds like they're too lazy to account for the possibility of people flying and its easier for them to not trouble themselves with it.

Well, that's it, exactly. Developing a zone for players that can fly means developing a zone with all three axis in mind. X, Y and Z. Length, Width and Depth. That's the definition of a three dimensional space.

Now, we know that they CAN do it because they did it in BC without a problem. Isolated elevated areas in leveling zones that were impossible to reach without a Flying mount. The problem with doing that is that it's 'hard' and requires more planning and work and development than normal zones.

So, if you remove the Z-axis, the 'depth' aspect of a zone, then you're left with a flat two-dimensional zone with stuff spread out in the x and y axis. Easier, quicker and less problematic and that is the only true reason why they're removing Flying from WoD.

Because it costs more money and time and effort to develop three dimensional zones.

[Raeln]

Point taken. But 90% of the playerbase is casual. We could agree on that based on raiding stats. So if Blizz fucks with casual transportation, how long would it take before Keyboard turning posters appeared yelling about how they can't just fly from Node to node gathering for their 10 alts? I promise you, if it becomes a no-fly expansion, (something I have never said in 7 years of playing) sub numbers will PLUMMET between 6.1 and 6.2.

I'm not convinced the casual player will even care about no-flying until 6 to 8 months after release. We could be into 6.2 by then.

[Awbee]

This argument over used by many people who oppose flying. There are quite a few people who use flying to actively explore the world ad not just bypass it all. For me having to wait ~3-4 months after the expansion is released just to be able to fly around and look at things is simply going to mean that some of the shiny will already be worn off, some of the magic lost. If I see an impressive 400 foot tall tower, I want to go look at it. Yeah, it actually bothers me that I can't closely examine those towers with the lightning all over them on the Isle of Thunder. Seeing a little bit of it from limited angles during a scripted event doesn't cut it for me.

Flying lets me see the world. It doesn't hide it from me.

This, 100%.

Let's just be honest enough to say that experiencing things on the ground is vastly different than flying above it. Your not doing quests, fighting rares, pvping, or everything that this game has to offer in the air. It's all on the ground.

You assume that everybody wants to do quest, fight rares or pvp all the time. I do not. I spend a huge part of my game time just chilling out in the world, sitting on a mountain in Storm Peaks and listening to the music, or gather herbs in Eastern Kingdoms for an hour while I listen to a podcast. This is how I relax. I fly to cool locations and roleplay there with my friends. I fly to old raids and dungeons to get specific transmog gear or pets / mounts.

If I want to quest, I do that. If I want to fight rares, I do that. If I want to pvp, I do that (pretty much never). When I want to fly, I fly. When I want to fly, I do not want to fight rares or pvp or quest instead, I just want to fly. What's so hard to understand about that?

I also really don't like the Timeless Isle, it's an overcrowded loot pinata that I feel restricted on because I can't fly. Same for the Thunder Isle thing, I've been there once to start the scenarios, haven't returned. Might one day because of the achievements and mounts, but not feeling to compelled. If I could fly there, I'd be all over it. Then I'd be interested in seeing the scenery. As it is, the scenery is just teasing me with "I look cool but you can't really see me from above, too bad", that feels annoying as hell.

[Patife17]

Flying and 1.5sec casting time that's what killed World PvP.

So god news.

[-Superman-]

Your 3,294 forum posts on MMO-Champ tells me that you are more hardcore than probably 70% of WoW's playerbase, regardless of how long it took you to level.

For all we know, they may have huge plans on Garrisons being a vehicle to provide crafting materials for those that don't want to constantly be fighting Tauren druids for herbs.

My number of posts is based on my enjoyment of discussing the game. Plus, I have 6 monitors at work and already had stuff on the other 5. Only thing I am hardcore about is making sure we are not the victims of a new breed of asshat devs in a game I've played for 7 years. I've been playing Blizz games since Orcs vs Humans and the original Diablo. The fact that they can't get their shit together, and everyone is posting their opinions on multiple mutlimedia sites, makes me miss Greg Street even more.

[dd614]

No flying is going to cause a lot of people to stop playing. You'd be surprised.

[Tobedeleted123]

Yay, another reason not to buy the next xpac. Thanks Blizz for making my decisions so much easier

[Raeln]

Implying a small group of people is just spamming F5 to bolster the views.

I hit F5 all the time to see if there are new posts/replies.

I could care less about views.

[-Superman-]

I'm not convinced the casual player will even care about no-flying until 6 to 8 months after release. We could be into 6.2 by then.

Then it plummets between 6.2 and 6.3. I am a fanboy, and have even been a white knight at times. But if they take away one of my favorite aspects, I will close up shop instantly. I main a Druid. Can't use my Swift Flight Form in Draenor? I'm out.

[Deleted]

Since Blizzard are evening considering this, there must have been a lot of feedback to take it away.

[Joey Ray III]

But it makes people go out into the world LESS! People go out LESS into the world if it's tedious and takes forever to get anywhere. The more tedious and uncomfortable you make "the world", the more likely players are to stay inside of cities.

at the moment, yes. that's why i said one of many steps. another step would be putting something people want (or need) in the world. blizzard has a very powerful motivational tool in their hands - a carrot on a stick. even the most tedious of the most uncomfortable activities can suddenly become fun if there's a reward at the end of the tunnel.

[-Superman-]

Okay fair enough, at least if what you say is true then your are not a mindless fanboy. I normally don't pay attention to tweets by developers but when it's a tweet made by the Lead World Designer of Blizzard I definitely take it a little more seriously. This isn't something he would say without some thought.

In another interview, he stated that fans were not at all upset by paid boosting. Please, feel free to take him seriously. Forgive me if I am a bit more skeptical of his coherence when it comes to knowing his audience.

[draynay]

Since Blizzard are evening considering this, there must have been a lot of feedback to take it away.

from their own lazy staff

if they don't want to spend the time and money to implement the game features then I don't want to spend the time and money to play it

I'd like to continue playing the game I bought, not have half of it removed for their convenience while the price remains the same

[-Superman-]

Since Blizzard are evening considering this, there must have been a lot of feedback to take it away.

Most likely the hardcore gankers of the PvP world.

[Raeln]

LOL, right, because entering a discussion forum to talk about a videogame you enjoy playing with other (potentially) like minded players is super hardcore, am I doing this right?

You're already making a bit of a fool out of your self in this thread, but a little advice? Don't be that guy that tries to define "casual" players into a single blanket definition. It doesn't bode well for you.

I never said you was some super-hardcore player.

I did said that just by visiting and posting on a forum outside the game that you were more hardcore than most of the playerbase playing the game.

I... what? His total posts on a discussion forum gauge how hardcore of an in game player he is? You are reading what you're writing, correct?

Do you think the average WoW player makes 3300 forum posts on anything, much less a game? They spend their time playing, then go off and do other things - not spend literally months of time reading and posting to video game threads. That makes him "more hardcore" than the average player in WoW, yes.

[black127]

Its not about exploring, its for world pvp, anyone that plays on a pvp server and has participated in world pvp knows how shitty it can be when another guild uses flying. World pvp is a small percentage of the game, pretty much only something ppl do when they have blown through all content. So keeping flying in the game would probably be better but it wont kill the game, since your only other choice will be ESO and that's even more about the exploration, no flying theme. Which seemed super boring to me when playing beta. Id rather have no cool down on my shell, and a little longer range so when ppl try to run away when your raping them they cant. Even an aoe shell would be good.

[-Superman-]

from their own lazy staff

if they don't want to spend the time and money to implement the game features then i don't want to spend the time and money to play it

i'd like to continue playing the game i bought, not have half of it removed for their convenience while the price remains the same

b i n g o.... my thoughts precisely.

[-Superman-]

since your only other choice will be ESO

I would rather go back to SWTOR and make sure Blizz knows they lost a fanboy and the $1k a year I spend on this game is now going to Bioware.

[Raeln]

You had me....and then you lost me. You must not have played in vanilla. You must not have rememebered all the failed world pvp objectives. The EPL towers and the lolsand. They might have had some traction on pvp servers, but they were complete failures on pve servers. Mind you, back in vanilla I did the rare owpvp. I found it interesting and fairly even. It could go either way and you never felt completely gimped or weak unless it was a shaman doing 2h windfury procs or a reckoning bomb paladin. But those were gimmicky builds.

But no, the pvp itself needs to be rewarding, not some objective that people will likely ignore.

You owned nothing in Vanilla. The sand in Sillythus was a joke.

There were no other objectives that you could "win" and cause a detriment to the other faction that made them want to get rid of. All Blizzard did in Vanilla/TBC was try to put a few low-cost objectives on a map that might attract some people to fight over and call it a day. When they finally did put in "land grab battles", it was Wintergrasp and the only thing people fought Wintergrasp over was access to the PvE raid zone for their once a week clear.