Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[MinTDH]

Did I say it was because of no flying? No. That would be people who failed to read my statement and choose to use my position to put words into my mouth.

Alright. They're not going to turn flying back on in 6.1 because of a sub loss in MoP. It will be determined by feedback on the forums in WoD.

[-Superman-]

Alright. They're not going to turn flying back on in 6.1 because of a sub loss in MoP. It will be determined by feedback on the forums in WoD.

I would posit that a decline in interest, and a smaller launch in WoD would certainly encourage it to happen in 6.1. Possibly sooner. Maybe even 6.05 if the early showings are less than stellar.

[MinTDH]

I would posit that a decline in interest, and a smaller launch in WoD would certainly encourage it to happen in 6.1. Possibly sooner. Maybe even 6.05 if the early showings are less than stellar.

The pre-orders show there's actually a higher interest in WoD rather than a decline. And I don't know about that.

[Mosotti]

The pre-orders show there's actually a higher interest in WoD rather than a decline. And I don't know about that.

Not if the pre-orders could have been at 2M...

And stop saying Blizzard would not bring flying back because of sub losses, but because of feedback on forums. It makes you look extremely stupid...

[Luko]

The pre-orders show there's actually a higher interest in WoD rather than a decline. And I don't know about that.

Fun story:

I have 3 characters that I use just for auction and bank mules. I checked them whenever I logged in to collect income (not subbed at the moment, but I was last month at this time.) Anyway, after all of these no-flight threads started popping up, I thought it'd be fun to start asking trade a couple times a day what they thought about there being no flight in the WoD areas for the next expac.

Granted, I've got a smaller server, but 90% of the reaction generally had no idea there was going to be no flight and many of them accused me of trolling. I've even got a nifty collection of screen shots showing the interactions.

Does my server = every server? Of course not. Do the people responding to my random trade banter represent everyone? No, of course not. But if there's anything to be learned from this, it's that there's a very sizable number of players who don't visit forums to catch up on expansion previews. There's an overwhelming number of WoW's population who have no IDEA about these flight restrictions.

I'm predicting now, and feel free to quote me and shove it back in my face if I'm wrong come launch, but I'm predicting that the lack of flight at level 100 is going to bring around some of the most potent official forum rage we've seen since the attempted implementation of Real ID names on the forums. If no-flight even lasts until the first patch it'll be surprising to me.

[Ordinator]

I imagine with an 800k sub loss in 90 days, and plenty of refunds going out the door for the dissatisfied, Flying will make its debut in 6.1.

Did I say it was because of no flying? No. That would be people who failed to read my statement and choose to use my position to put words into my mouth.

You pretty much implied it with the bolded part. Context clues bro...

And yea, implying that anything but a small amount of the sub loss is due to no flying is flat out silly.

[MinTDH]

Not if the pre-orders could have been at 2M...

And stop saying Blizzard would not bring flying back because of sub losses, but because of feedback on forums. It makes you look extremely stupid...

First off, no need to insult me. I shouldn't of responded because of that but I will.

Second, sub losses in MoP is not going to affect their opinion on something that's in WoD. That's what I was implying. It is the feedback on the forums, and possibly even the subs that will determine if it'll arrive in 6.1, earlier, or even later.

[Luko]

You pretty much implied it with the bolded part. Context clues bro...

And yea, implying that anything but a small amount of the sub loss is due to no flying is flat out silly.

I'm pretty sure Superman was implying that if the subs are already in such a steady decline that something as community impacting as loss of travel convenience (flight) would potentially cause even more unhappy customers that they couldn't afford.

Ya know, context clues.

[Mafic]

Fun story:

I have 3 characters that I use just for auction and bank mules. I checked them whenever I logged in to collect income (not subbed at the moment, but I was last month at this time.) Anyway, after all of these no-flight threads started popping up, I thought it'd be fun to start asking trade a couple times a day what they thought about there being no flight in the WoD areas for the next expac.

Granted, I've got a smaller server, but 90% of the reaction generally had no idea there was going to be no flight and many of them accused me of trolling. I've even got a nifty collection of screen shots showing the interactions.

Does my server = every server? Of course not. Do the people responding to my random trade banter represent everyone? No, of course not. But if there's anything to be learned from this, it's that there's a very sizable number of players who don't visit forums to catch up on expansion previews. There's an overwhelming number of WoW's population who have no IDEA about these flight restrictions.

I'm predicting now, and feel free to quote me and shove it back in my face if I'm wrong come launch, but I'm predicting that the lack of flight at level 100 is going to bring around some of the most potent official forum rage we've seen since the attempted implementation of Real ID names on the forums. If no-flight even lasts until the first patch it'll be surprising to me.

Biggest rage items for expansion launch will be no flying at level cap and what they have done to professions. The professions require a lot more mats to craft/level even with garrison and the lack of flying exacerbates this. Demand will be a lot higher than normal because travel time is going to be an issue. Mining will see a huge boom while the crafting professions will suffer.

[pankind]

I've explained ad nauseum and yet you still troll on. Your inability to grasp all of our arguments is your problem. Your simplifications of what we've told you has left you with blinders on, I don't you will ever get it.

There are almost no "pros" to no flying after we have level maxed and cleared zones. If not using a flying mount is fun for your, go right ahead, you can do that at anytime.

Any list of pros and cons is subjective.

One person lists a con saying "it will take me longer to get around" and the next person says "that doesn't bother me enough to be a con". Another person says "I'd like engage in more random world PVP, but the only time I see a player not flying is when they are fighting a mob" and the next person says "World pvp sucks and it always has."

One person can love resource gathering and will hate not being able to fly to do it. Another person may be annoyed with resource gathering because competing players can shoot around at 300% with relative impunity.

The important part is that the decision makers at Blizzard do have an opinion on the issue. They aren't required to make all decisions according to the popular vote. As a consumer you have the right to petition for change, take your business elsewhere, or carry on and hope your voice is heard. This thread is really nothing more than "Nuh-uh!" "Yes-huh!" child-like bickering. I believe most people with rational input have been ignored long ago. Don't confuse troll-like thread participation with a complete lack of validity to the opposing side's opinion.

[Luko]

Any list of pros and cons is subjective.

One person lists a con saying "it will take me longer to get around" and the next person says "that doesn't bother me enough to be a con". Another person says "I'd like engage in more random world PVP, but the only time I see a player not flying is when they are fighting a mob" and the next person says "World pvp sucks and it always has."

This isn't true, actually.

If someone lists "Flight makes getting around much quicker" as a pro-flight support, that's a fact, not subjective. If someone says "Flight makes gathering much faster", again, that's a fact. If someone says "More areas are more easily accessable with flight" .. you're getting the theme I hope.

As I said earlier though, there's been nothing but subjectivity in response to these facts. There's simply no practical, functional, productive (and most importantly) factual reason to remove flight in an area that seems otherwise equipped to handle it.

[Drytoast]

800 k sub loss has a ton of reasons behind it...

- wildstar not sucking
- proposed changes to wow
- the game being 10 years old

But most importantly over a year between content updates...

Someone at blizzard needs to get fired.

[Nayaga]

Any list of pros and cons is subjective.

One person lists a con saying "it will take me longer to get around" and the next person says "that doesn't bother me enough to be a con". Another person says "I'd like engage in more random world PVP, but the only time I see a player not flying is when they are fighting a mob" and the next person says "World pvp sucks and it always has."

One person can love resource gathering and will hate not being able to fly to do it. Another person may be annoyed with resource gathering because competing players can shoot around at 300% with relative impunity.

The important part is that the decision makers at Blizzard do have an opinion on the issue. They aren't required to make all decisions according to the popular vote. As a consumer you have the right to petition for change, take your business elsewhere, or carry on and hope your voice is heard. This thread is really nothing more than "Nuh-uh!" "Yes-huh!" child-like bickering. I believe most people with rational input have been ignored long ago. Don't confuse troll-like thread participation with a complete lack of validity to the opposing side's opinion.

What is fun in the game is subjective, something I've said over and over again.

Also, like I said; There is enough room in the game for both of our likes and dislikes. For extended period of time there will be no flying anywhere in Wod. After that, flying will be added, but not in all zones. You will continue to get no flying in those zone. The fly crowd will get flying in other zones after a long wait.

[Arbs]

What I do is my concern.

Dem 1.5 Million WoD Preorders are your biggest enemy.

- - - Updated - - -

Because every single sub lost was because of this no flying shit. Not because we've gone almost a year without content. That'd make too much sense.

They should of just gave us Patch 5.5, it would of been better than a year without content.

[Maneo]

Dem 1.5 Million WoD Preorders are your biggest enemy.

I am curious though of how many of those 1.5 million pre orders had to be refunded.

We will never know. <sigh>

[Zigzagzoom]

I don't see how 1.5 million preorders are a good thing. If that's all they got well honestly it's going to be a ghost town.

[cabyio]

This isn't true, actually.

If someone lists "Flight makes getting around much quicker" as a pro-flight support, that's a fact, not subjective. If someone says "Flight makes gathering much faster", again, that's a fact. If someone says "More areas are more easily accessable with flight" .. you're getting the theme I hope.

As I said earlier though, there's been nothing but subjectivity in response to these facts. There's simply no practical, functional, productive (and most importantly) factual reason to remove flight in an area that seems otherwise equipped to handle it.

Blizzard obviously has a reason behind the removal of flight. They wouldn't risk losing subs on something unless they though it might be able to bring more good to the game than harm. If it does bring more harm then good I'm sure they will bring back flight in 6.1 and people like superman will feel pretty dumb for permanently deleting their accounts.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't see how 1.5 million preorders are a good thing. If that's all they got well honestly it's going to be a ghost town.

You realize that you still have a fair amount of time for people to pre order, plus the fact that most people will buy it when it releases or after. So not sure how you think it is going to be a ghost town.

- - - Updated - - -

I am curious though of how many of those 1.5 million pre orders had to be refunded.

We will never know. <sigh>

True, we will never know for sure. I have a feeling it is a very tiny percentage.

[-Superman-]

I'm pretty sure Superman was implying that if the subs are already in such a steady decline that something as community impacting as loss of travel convenience (flight) would potentially cause even more unhappy customers that they couldn't afford.

Ya know, context clues.

Thank you for clarifying that for him. I get tired of explaining my comments to people who only seek to twist them.

- - - Updated - - -

Dem 1.5 Million WoD Preorders are your biggest enemy.

1.5M pre-orders in a game with only 6.8M players. This close to launch and barely 20% in pre-sales. Plus the almost 1M decline in subs. By the time it launches, I would guess another 500K will drop out before launch just from the stagnant boredom of SoO without any new content.

[MinTDH]

1.5M pre-orders in a game with only 6.8M players. This close to launch and barely 20% in pre-sales. Plus the almost 1M decline in subs. By the time it launches, I would guess another 500K will drop out before launch just from the stagnant boredom of SoO without any new content.

1.5m pre-orders is a ton considering it isn't even out yet. We've still got 2-4 months left.

[-Superman-]

1.5m pre-orders is a ton considering it isn't even out yet. We've still got 2-4 months left.

One would expect that number to be higher considering pre-orders on prior expansions. INB4 "dying game = less sales"