Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Blackcoffin]

I am pro-flying and I am definitely a very patient person. I don't mind to wait a week and use daily CDs to be able to craft one item, and then spend even more weeks for upgrades. In the time when I was into organised raiding, weeks went by without upgrades when bad luck met the lack of DPS points. I spent hours of farming elementals for crafting items, to make specific sets (mage tank / Gruul, frost resi / Naxx etc.). I also have maximum convenience playing a mage. Time is not the only factor. We are held hostage by a denial of options which would have no impact on the game at all except for the people who value these options.

Reputation farming: Blizz did not only take away all gameplay relevance of reputations, they also took away all previously existing, more convenient ways to farm reputations. They could have implemented reputation gains in heroics via mob killing, these would make instances last some longer.

Flying: Does not hurt farming because nobody does farming. Does hurt platforming - but the only platforming that has been truly relevant for me was the taming of mounts via stables - and they could have easily implemented the limitation of "can only be used while on a ground mount". Hell, I have to use a normal mount instead of my outpost perk wolf because of some bug or whatever. Aviana's feather damages PvP more than a flying mount ever could, because it can be used in combat.

Flight was not broken, it was special. I don't need realism in a world with magic, crazy tech, dragons and demons. Such a world needs consistency, and WoD does not have any in this regard.

Last thing: Please tell me, how does not flying makes a world more populated? Leveling is grounded, but when it ends? I like flying, I spend most of my time in areas where I can do so - which deletes me from the world people with no flight are experiencing. It is content, which drives people out in the world, and there is no content that would be luring me out. It's a bad decision for an MMO, and hurts the open world more than flying would ever do. Hell, with their different layers in populated zones there is even a chance that you see only a tiny fraction of the people who would be there. That's stupid.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6436539?page=5

[Deleted]

This kind of puts things into perspective

As an example, let us consider a quest to assassinate an enemy leader. From the ground you approach a fort with guards at the gate. You charge and are able to dispatch them and sneak in a side hallway. You methodically take out packs of roaming sentries, and some of them shout at you as they run toward you. You notice they’re in the middle of practicing dark and forbidden magics, and you take a moment to disrupt their ritual. Dashing into the main courtyard you spot your target, sneaking and fighting your way to him--and with a forceful slash--the fort’s captain is vanquished, and as guards are alerted you fight your way out, glorious and triumphant in your success.

Alternatively, from a flying mount, you fly over the gate, see some guy whose name is highlighted, land on top of him, kill him, and then fly away.

Being efficient is great, being clever is great, and using your cleverness to be efficient is great, but how many of us have done the Tillers dailies up on the cliffside where the Hozen are, and waited for packs to pass by before setting down right where you’re supposed to, use whatever thingamabob you’re supposed to, and then lift off ASAP*hoping-hoping-hoping*nothing aggros? How many of us have become furious when we*actually have to fight something!? Is that clever gameplay? Is that being good at playing the game, or is it using a mechanic to avoid having to play it? Is that what the game should be, and what our expectations should be as gamers playing it?

[Deleted]

No it doesn't.

Avianna's feather?

And how do you propose a guild friend or a player of your faction come to your aid if they are on the other side of Spires of Arak or the WoD continent if you are being camped? 1. They have to use the flight paths which can be camped and 2. It will take so long to reach that area via ground mount the ganker or gankers are long gone.

you forgot the best one that i do when im bored. i expect this. so when i play my rogue i can just stealth and slap spam. and then just watch them trying to find me. once i see a distance i'll annoy.

[Blackcoffin]

Blizzard does not have the balls to say it is out as much as they want to. They can't say it because the people want it in. You can keep saying what you are saying but we all know the truth.

Players want to fly.

You keep saying otherwise but you have linked nothing. All you have is your opinion.

As you love to say, please provide facts with data to support them. I have shown tons of people that support flying. Thousands of them on posts.

You have shown nothing to substantiate your opinion. Lol

This contradictory post just caused my brain to explode.

Lets break it down.

• Blizzard does not have the balls to say it is out as much as they want to.
• They can't say it because the people want it in.
• You can keep saying what you are saying but we all know the truth.
• Players want to fly.

Undeniable facts?

And the creme de la creme that justifies this entirely hypocritical post

As you love to say, please provide facts with data to support them. I have shown tons of people that support flying. Thousands of them on posts.

So YOU showing other posts of people who are FOR flying, is more factual than an actual post disagreeing with you? Excuse me, what the hell is going through that empty space between your ears?

And another note, do you really think, people who are indifferent/happy with no flying, will flock the boards to gloat?

[redcoffe]

my favorite mounts that i put a LOT (years in some cases) of effort into...



__________________

[pankind]

This contradictory post just caused my brain to explode.

Lets break it down.

• Blizzard does not have the balls to say it is out as much as they want to.
• They can't say it because the people want it in.
• You can keep saying what you are saying but we all know the truth.
• Players want to fly.

Undeniable facts?

And the creme de la creme that justifies this entirely hypocritical post



So YOU showing other posts of people who are FOR flying, is more factual than an actual post disagreeing with you? Excuse me, what the hell is going through that empty space between your ears?

And another note, do you really think, people who are indifferent/happy with no flying, will flock the boards to gloat?

That's all much to do about data that is the opposite of scientific on a topic not decided by popular vote.

[Backjauer]

Once you reach 100 the quests available (ie: garrison "campaign" and apexis dailies, because there is fuck all else to do) really aren't improved by no flying. Especially the apexis dailies, where the only point is to kill (and maybe click on a few items) indiscriminately, so it makes no difference if you fly or run from A-B on the ground or not.

Going back to what Bashiok wrote aaaaages ago:

As an example, let us consider a quest to assassinate an enemy leader. From the ground you approach a fort with guards at the gate. You charge and are able to dispatch them and sneak in a side hallway. You methodically take out packs of roaming sentries, and some of them shout at you as they run toward you. You notice they’re in the middle of practicing dark and forbidden magics, and you take a moment to disrupt their ritual. Dashing into the main courtyard you spot your target, sneaking and fighting your way to him--and with a forceful slash--the fort’s captain is vanquished, and as guards are alerted you fight your way out, glorious and triumphant in your success.

In Draenor we’re designing max-level content, portions of zones or zones in their entirety that will be dedicated to max-level gameplay—and not just the top of a cliffside, or some dailies in the Vale. There’s a harsh change in how the game plays between leveling, and when you hit max level. Hitting 100 and instantly switching everything you do to raiding or Arenas is pretty abrupt, and we want to try to keep that questing experience available at max level with something more robust than daily quests. We don’t think having all of that content inside buildings, or constantly challenged by sky cannons, or with magical no-flying smoke, or within some kind of dismount bubble is the most straightforward or best solution to the ultimate issue in that World of Warcraft is not a flight sim, and that's just not what the content of the game is about. Even at level 100 there will be no small portions of the game world intended to provide relevant content even to max-level players. These zones may even unlock over the course of the expansion, or the content in them will progress in story and scope throughout content patches. Content has to be designed with the expectation that there either is or is not flight, and approaching ground-level content from the ground offers more compelling gameplay. Raids, dungeons, and PvP continue to disallow flying for this same reason.

Those situations just don't exist. If that was the intended goal, they've failed to reach that goal. If the quests actually behaved like that I might be more sympathetic towards no-flying. But as the game currently stands I don't believe flying or no-flying adds anything to the immersion or challenge, it only makes getting around more convoluted and annoying. As such flying would be an improvement for quality of life purposes.

[Barkloud]

This kind of puts things into perspective

As I have mentioned multiple times, the example you gave does not exist in WoD. There are no quests that require you to dispatch people. For the most part I run straight up to my target and kill them. If I had flying I would have flown there.

On top of that if I did need to fight my way in, there is usually a building or cave I cannot be mounted in anyways.

Bashiok gave a reason to remove flying that largely does not exist in the game.

[quras]

Blizzard talked a lot about flying being a problem for the design. SNIP....

I do wonder if blizzard problem with in design is it should blizzard needed to up the game in their quest/content design. IT was well past time they stop designing as they had in the past. Worthless mobs all around, boss mobs at the end of a quest just standing their waiting to be killed and more of the same ole, same ole, just kill 10 of this and then kill 15 more and collect 12 of this while you ignore anything not related.

Keeping flying at max level does make travel in those quests faster but I do wonder if their problem with flying is it encouraged blizzard to design better quests and content and they just had no intent in doing that. WoD is nothing more than the same design as we have been getting and they sure didn't "step it up" as far as content design goes.

I'm more sold on blizzard removing flying because it allows them to be a bit more lazy in creativity and content design with the added bonus of slowing every gamer down.

An expansion with no flying at max level so I can just do all the things I've been doing for the past expansions but now on the ground only?
No thanks.

[Barkloud]

This contradictory post just caused my brain to explode.

Lets break it down.

• Blizzard does not have the balls to say it is out as much as they want to.
• They can't say it because the people want it in.
• You can keep saying what you are saying but we all know the truth.
• Players want to fly.

Undeniable facts?

And the creme de la creme that justifies this entirely hypocritical post



So YOU showing other posts of people who are FOR flying, is more factual than an actual post disagreeing with you? Excuse me, what the hell is going through that empty space between your ears?

And another note, do you really think, people who are indifferent/happy with no flying, will flock the boards to gloat?

Yes I think linking posts that have hundreds of up votes supporting flying and hundreds of down votes on anti flying posts show support for flying. The only support I have found for anti flying is the 10 or 15 people here who bash people who post about flying.

Like it or not people want flying back. It was a non controversial form of travel for the past four expansions. Travel was broken in vanilla, that is why they changed it.

[Deleted]

I don't even know what the reason for flying would be in Draenor.

It's not that big and also not that densely packed with mobs.

[Sathnick]

I don't even know what the reason for flying would be in Draenor.

It's not that big and also not that densely packed with mobs.

I don't even know what the reason for not flying at max Level would be in Draenor.

People dont leave their Garrisons anyways and when then it's either via flight master or they just run past every mob there is.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Given the constant raging debate for almost a year now, I think other game developers will be adding in elements of flying. We are already seeing this in other games.

One thing is for certain. This catastrophe has not gone as smoothly as blizzard Anticipated. it is pretty ballsy if you think about it. For a developer of a successful series to strip their totally non controversial travel system of eight years and replace it with nothing is really bizarre. The fact that the game offers exceptionally limited fast travel makes it even crazier.

Catastrophe? Not gone smoothly? Limited fast travel? Are we playing the same game here? No flying hasn't been a catastrophe. There's been a huge jump in sub numbers and every poll points to 70% favor towards no flight. Aside from instant teleportation to anywhere you want int he world WoW has one of the most convenient fast travel systems of any MMO I've played.

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Last time I checked rogues can sap me while i'm in the air too. ANY HEIGHT.

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Is this the deflection anti-flyers are bringing in response?

Are we playing the same game? You've been immune to CC while flying for a LONG TIME. Rogues could killing spree with a buddy in wotlk and kill you before you could land to heal up, but that's the one instance of flying "danger" that there's been flying since kaliri in skettis.

[Flatabala]

The reason I want flying to stay out of the game is that flying is a cheesy mechanic. It's not that I feel more "immersed" when glued to the ground. Flying is an incredibly cheesy mechanic, and I don't want that mechanic to be in the game. Those of you that say it's my choice whether to fly or not are missing the point.

Blizzard should add flying back to the game for 1 day, but only allow people to fly if they type /noclip in chat every time. They should make it unable to be macro'ed as well.

I was in Outlands the other day and it took me a full 10 minutes to remember that I could fly (those of you who will call me retarded for this need to understand that when you don't care about a mechanic you don't think about it, and then you forget about it. You all who want flying back would obviously remember you could fly in Outlands because it'd be a breath of fresh air to you). When I got on my dragonhawk I physically grimaced because now that I'm not used to flying it's become even more clear how ridiculous it is from a design standpoint. Seriously, zoom into first person and fly around. It is noclip, minus the ability to move through walls. It is the air filled up with invisible water.

I understand why people would want flying to return. I understand that a large chunk of people wish it would. I understand you pro-fliers. But understand me and my fellow anti-fliers. We simply don't want what we consider a cheesy mechanic to make it back into the game.

[Cthulhu 2020]

How is running into quests with nothing attacking you different than flying into quests with nothing attacking you other than it is slower. People keep saying you have to fight your way in, but that has not been my experience.

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I do not get the twitter integration or the selfies. Who knows though maybe it is a hot thing in China or something.

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Blizzard does not have the balls to say it is out as much as they want to. They can't say it because the people want it in. You can keep saying what you are saying but we all know the truth.

Players want to fly.

You keep saying otherwise but you have linked nothing. All you have is your opinion.

As you love to say, please provide facts with data to support them. I have shown tons of people that support flying. Thousands of them on posts.

You have shown nothing to substantiate your opinion. Lol

There's been polls on multiple fansites and forums and the numbers are very consistently 70% in favor of no flight. Of course the remaining 30% would constitute thousands of players, but it's still the minority.

Then of course when these polls are pointed out, the excuses come out about how the polls have no integrity for some reason or another, where if it were the other way around they'd think the poll was totally legit.

[Sathnick]

The reason I want flying to stay out of the game is that flying is a cheesy mechanic. It's not that I feel more "immersed" when glued to the ground. Flying is an incredibly cheesy mechanic, and I don't want that mechanic to be in the game. Those of you that say it's my choice whether to fly or not are missing the point.

Blizzard should add flying back to the game for 1 day, but only allow people to fly if they type /noclip in chat every time. They should make it unable to be macro'ed as well.

I was in Outlands the other day and it took me a full 10 minutes to remember that I could fly (those of you who will call me retarded for this need to understand that when you don't care about a mechanic you don't think about it, and then you forget about it. You all who want flying back would obviously remember you could fly in Outlands because it'd be a breath of fresh air to you). When I got on my dragonhawk I physically grimaced because now that I'm not used to flying it's become even more clear how ridiculous it is from a design standpoint. Seriously, zoom into first person and fly around. It is noclip, minus the ability to move through walls. It is the air filled up with invisible water.

I understand why people would want flying to return. I understand that a large chunk of people wish it would. I understand you pro-fliers. But understand me and my fellow anti-fliers. We simply don't want what we consider a cheesy mechanic to make it back into the game.

This is actually high on my list of most ridiculous replies so far. You do know that flying exisist in...you know - real life right? I mean birds for example are flying and guess what - they do it in first "Person" as well!!

[Dezminion]

Sadly, even if you would have a poll here at MMO or a forum thread at Blizz's own forums they do not tell the truth.
Since its only a minority of players, that actually use the forums.
Plus is you can manipulate the results by poll choises, thread title etc.

It is not that black and white :/

[Cthulhu 2020]

The reason I want flying to stay out of the game is that flying is a cheesy mechanic. It's not that I feel more "immersed" when glued to the ground. Flying is an incredibly cheesy mechanic, and I don't want that mechanic to be in the game. Those of you that say it's my choice whether to fly or not are missing the point.

Blizzard should add flying back to the game for 1 day, but only allow people to fly if they type /noclip in chat every time. They should make it unable to be macro'ed as well.

I was in Outlands the other day and it took me a full 10 minutes to remember that I could fly (those of you who will call me retarded for this need to understand that when you don't care about a mechanic you don't think about it, and then you forget about it. You all who want flying back would obviously remember you could fly in Outlands because it'd be a breath of fresh air to you). When I got on my dragonhawk I physically grimaced because now that I'm not used to flying it's become even more clear how ridiculous it is from a design standpoint. Seriously, zoom into first person and fly around. It is noclip, minus the ability to move through walls. It is the air filled up with invisible water.

I understand why people would want flying to return. I understand that a large chunk of people wish it would. I understand you pro-fliers. But understand me and my fellow anti-fliers. We simply don't want what we consider a cheesy mechanic to make it back into the game.

So much this.

Also, for all the people who say "just exercise some self control and use your ground mount" I realize you think it sounds clever, but there are so many reasons why this argument just isn't worth the time it takes to type it.

But tell you what, make it so that ground mounts got 310% speed and I will indeed choose to use them if both flight and ground mounts were in.

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Sadly, even if you would have a poll here at MMO or a forum thread at Blizz's own forums they do not tell the truth.
Since its only a minority of players, that actually use the forums.
Plus is you can manipulate the results by poll choises, thread title etc.

It is not that black and white :/

But that minority of players has no reason to be pro or anti flight biased.

Polls can be modified by EITHER side as well.

Pretty much every poll from every site, no matter how it's worded or its audience has come to the 70/30 figure.

[Sweetpeaz]

There's been polls on multiple fansites and forums and the numbers are very consistently 70% in favor of no flight. Of course the remaining 30% would constitute thousands of players, but it's still the minority.

Then of course when these polls are pointed out, the excuses come out about how the polls have no integrity for some reason or another, where if it were the other way around they'd think the poll was totally legit.

If you aren't dealing with a sample indicative of anything close to the player base, your poll information is utterly useless.

It also doesn't give you any intellectual honesty to say that subs were up at the beginning of the expansion, therefore, it must be because of no flight.

I get it, you like no flight. You don't have to make up things to further that point. In fact, that makes your argument look worst. Just say you like it and be done with it.

[Deleted]

Also, for all the people who say "just exercise some self control and use your ground mount" I realize you think it sounds clever, but there are so many reasons why this argument just isn't worth the time it takes to type it.
But tell you what, make it so that ground mounts got 310% speed and I will indeed choose to use them if both flight and ground mounts were in.

If the tradeoff for getting flying would be that ground mounts would be just as fast, then by all means do it. I don't care about the competitiveness of travel. I care about using my flying mounts for flying, and about choices. See, I was one of the "stupid" people who have used their ground mounts in areas with enabled flying just because I felt like doing this. For some part because of RP-reasons, for some part because of the coolness of the mounts (Anzu! Huge Scorpions! Paladin and Warlock class mounts!). I also have used ground mounts instead of flight taxis when I felt like doing so, or the clearly slow 60% flight speed in early BC. In fact, I still do this, although its not efficient, but when I can stay in control of my character. Every time I am doing this, I am missing flight. Because I have already seen all areas on 5 toons on my way to 100. I would like to get new views, views from above.