Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Cthulhu 2020]

It's pretty silly to think that Tanaan would get scrapped. I forsee Farahlon not seeing any action. What story is there? We know in normal timeline it becomes netherstorm, but otherwise it has no immediate or apparent point in the story line. It would basically be another timeless isle, something that's cooked up and thrown in.

- - - Updated - - -

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13686790283

Thread is continued and still going strong, 1050 upvotes, it's not all about flying but flight is in there.

The blizz white knights grow less and less by the day, as people drop subs and clamor more and more for the flying that they unlocked in 2007.

It's so silly to use such derogatory terms, it only weakens your argument. Some of us are just fine with the game as it is. All of these cries that WoW has lost that loving feeling... yeah, I've heard it all before. I've been playing for 10 years and every one of those 10 years there's the exact same complaints, and yet here we are, 10 years later, still going strong.

Blizzard has been called liars, scammers, corporate scum, and anyone who likes the game as it is, is clearly just a fanboy, because there's no way anyone in their right mind could actually like the game. How droll. You guys need new material.

[Pyromelter]

It's pretty silly to think that Tanaan would get scrapped. I forsee Farahlon not seeing any action. What story is there? We know in normal timeline it becomes netherstorm, but otherwise it has no immediate or apparent point in the story line. It would basically be another timeless isle, something that's cooked up and thrown in.

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It's so silly to use such derogatory terms, it only weakens your argument. Some of us are just fine with the game as it is. All of these cries that WoW has lost that loving feeling... yeah, I've heard it all before. I've been playing for 10 years and every one of those 10 years there's the exact same complaints, and yet here we are, 10 years later, still going strong.

Blizzard has been called liars, scammers, corporate scum, and anyone who likes the game as it is, is clearly just a fanboy, because there's no way anyone in their right mind could actually like the game. How droll. You guys need new material.

Derogatory is in the eye of the beholder, however it doesn't make it any less true. You and others who are staunchly in the "no flying is great" camp are also ardent defenders of blizzard's design and development decisions. I'd be willing to bet that you and others in your camp would defend blizzard if, in the next expansion, all mounts were disabled, and you could only ride your ground mount after the equivalent time of going from level 1-40 in vanilla (say, 200+ hours /played per character).

BTW, I don't mean to bash blizz in general. Hereos of the Storm is turning out to be amazing, and hearthstone is a pretty fun diversion, albeit a bit wonky at the moment. Starcraft 2 is the gold standard for RTS games. (Can't speak on diablo, never cared for the series.) The development of wow has hit some very major bumps - flying is not the only big issue a lot of people have, but it's the one that affects likely the greatest amount of people in the biggest way. There is no doubt

If you want to choose to continue to defend backwards design decisions, then your position is going to be as unpopular as those of use who have drawn the ire of blizzard developers. It's not just that you "like the game as it is," it's like no matter what they do, you'll back them up, no matter how bad, stupid, inconvenient, horrible, or inane they make the game.

Also, my post is an invitation. If you ever come around to deciding that blizzard developers are not omniscient, you will be welcome by all of us who don't blindly follow any one company's design team as unquestionably holy.

[Mafic]

I find it fascinating how supportive the EU community was of removal of flying mounts at max level content compared to the North American community. And yet, it turns out the EU community has a stronger desire now for the use of flying mounts to return one year later.

I think this is an example that assuming that people will always hold the same views isn't true. As this thread shows, a lot of people have said their respective views have evolved over time regarding flying mounts. Well except for me.

[rda]

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13686790283

Thread is continued and still going strong, 1050 upvotes, it's not all about flying but flight is in there.

The blizz white knights grow less and less by the day, as people drop subs and clamor more and more for the flying that they unlocked in 2007.

This was a great post, I just re-read it.

[khalltusk]

Derogatory is in the eye of the beholder, however it doesn't make it any less true. You and others who are staunchly in the "no flying is great" camp are also ardent defenders of blizzard's design and development decisions. I'd be willing to bet that you and others in your camp would defend blizzard if, in the next expansion, all mounts were disabled, and you could only ride your ground mount after the equivalent time of going from level 1-40 in vanilla (say, 200+ hours /played per character).

BTW, I don't mean to bash blizz in general. Hereos of the Storm is turning out to be amazing, and hearthstone is a pretty fun diversion, albeit a bit wonky at the moment. Starcraft 2 is the gold standard for RTS games. (Can't speak on diablo, never cared for the series.) The development of wow has hit some very major bumps - flying is not the only big issue a lot of people have, but it's the one that affects likely the greatest amount of people in the biggest way. There is no doubt

If you want to choose to continue to defend backwards design decisions, then your position is going to be as unpopular as those of use who have drawn the ire of blizzard developers. It's not just that you "like the game as it is," it's like no matter what they do, you'll back them up, no matter how bad, stupid, inconvenient, horrible, or inane they make the game.

Also, my post is an invitation. If you ever come around to deciding that blizzard developers are not omniscient, you will be welcome by all of us who don't blindly follow any one company's design team as unquestionably holy.

I don't get why if someone likes what blizzard is doing people have to label them as a white knight and that they are blind etc. I do not agree with a lot of the anti flight groups points of view, but its not worth putting labels on them like that.

I think removing flight is "OK" if blizzard had provided a lot of the dynamic content I was hoping and they were hinting would be in WoD. Sadly there is no huge abundance of content for this to be an "OK" change. So I think removing flight at that point was a mistake. Am I bothered so much by flights removal? No, I would take no flight and plenty of world content/more dungeons/scenarios/battlefield barrens style content over that. Would I like flight back? Yes, would prefer it to come back with a nice long quest chain that makes it feel rewarding to get it back.

[KitWalker]

I just cancelled my subscription. No flying got to a point where it's taking away the fun for me.

I'm going to use a very specific example: Harrison Jones quests. I'm actually enjoying the quests - I don't enjoy getting there - and out of there.
Treasure Contract: Amulet of Rukhmar
This quest is in the middle of nowhere - there is no easy way to get there. Take a flight path and run around for 5 minutes uphill.
Then you do all the quests and end up in South-eastern Spires - in the middle of nowhere!

From there, I have two options: hearth to Garrison or to Stormshield. Really... I would not run to a random flight path from there.
^THIS ISN'T FUN. And it pushes me all the way back to my Garrison. All the time I'm being pushed back to my Garrison - maybe that's why I stay there so much - because I always have to go back there to cut on travel times.

Sorry for the vent. Subs cancelled - I'll be around for 3 more months - inside the Garrison... :'(

[-Superman-]

Your opinion. We don't have the data to back up that argument, only opinions.

Really? Let's take a look at what a successful expansion looks like:



Wrath of the Lich King was the LONGEST expansion in recorded history.



- Mostly short tiers and one LONG tier at the end of the expansion.
- Flight at 77, unlock a flight tome at 80, and then alts could fly at 70 (the start of the leveling process)
- Two zones to choose from to start in, neither had to be unlocked
- Minimal railing, just to get started
- Introduced a New Hero class, and allowed Scourge to be playable, even just for a short while
- Offered a variety of Raids to choose from, one of which is arguably the best raid in WoW history (Ulduar)
- Compelling stories, content and cinematics - among them my personal favorite was the Wrathgate questline and cinematic. I was bummed when the undercity raid was removed from the tail end of it.
- Introduction of LFD, queue from anywhere for Dungeons. Players would queue WHILE out in zones, and not always just AFK in some city
- After a 12 month long raid (ICC), Wrath still finished with 12M players.

Now, compare that to WoD and it's lack of flight, AFK in Garrisons, every zone leads to the next on rails, and no flight anywhere with barely 1 raid tier running. Gee, looks to me like Flight had ZERO impact on Wrath in terms of trivializing it. Flight was neither the reason Wrath was successful, nor did it do any harm. After 14 months of SoO, we ended with what? 6.8M? Hmmm. Most of Pandaria was on rails, too many dailies and gating, not enough variety. WoD is exactly the same as MoP, but now there are no daily hubs, and no real gating, and no flying, and people are parked in their garrisons AFK. I unsubbed. I could not see paying for an expansion just to AFK in, especially when a successful expansion that offered lvl 70 flight for alts, and 77 for mains never once left me AFK unless it was wife aggro.

So please, feel free to tell me how Wrath was horrible and WoD is so much better...

[rda]

It looks like the chart was made in the middle of SoO, the yellow column at the end of MoP should be way higher.

[-Superman-]

It looks like the chart was made in the middle of SoO, the yellow column at the end of MoP should be way higher.

Yep, somewhere between 380-410.

[rda]

Yep, somewhere between 380-410.

365+two months (10-sep-2013 to 13-nov-2014) = 420+.

Higher than the ceiling of the chart, LOL.

[-Superman-]

365+two months (10-sep-2013 to 13-nov-2014) = 420+.

Higher than the ceiling of the chart, LOL.

But it was "flight" that kills the content.... riiiiiiiiiiiight

[khalltusk]

But it was "flight" that kills the content.... riiiiiiiiiiiight

I don't get why Vanilla has so many tiers? It had 4 raid tiers (3 technically but 2.5 being AQ would take you to 4) but has 5 on the graph?

[rda]

But it was "flight" that kills the content.... riiiiiiiiiiiight

Well, no flying allowed them to make plenty of great content. Aviana's Feather, for one. I mean, who'd have used it, if we had flying? You see? No flying "enabled" content. That, and nine jumping puzzles. And the privilege not to swoop in and out of The Pit while AOEing it in a raid! So great!!!111

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FWIW, I guess the recent poll should have some success at shutting up people yelling "you are the minority!!!11 noone wants flying":

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ght-on-Draenor

...because even here, on MMO-C, more than 50% actually want it back, or at least they say they do.

[IntellectuallyChallenged]

Well, no flying allowed them to make plenty of great content. Aviana's Feather, for one. I mean, who'd have used it, if we had flying? You see? No flying "enabled" content. That, and nine jumping puzzles. And the privilege not to swoop in and out of The Pit while AOEing it in a raid! So great!!!111

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FWIW, I guess the recent poll should have some success at shutting up people yelling "you are the minority!!!11 noone wants flying":

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ght-on-Draenor

...because even here, on MMO-C, more than 50% actually want it back, or at least they say they do.

And that's the thing. It's a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the actual number of people playing the game. Until we can get an opinion from each and every one of them, then no poll on any site, even official forums, means a single thing.

[rda]

And that's the thing. It's a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the actual number of people playing the game. Until we can get an opinion from each and every one of them, then no poll on any site, even official forums, means a single thing.

Then noone can say whether any opinion is a majority or a minority one. Good enough for me, I wasn't the one shouting "you are a minority, you don't matter". (Not that I agree with your words that polls are useless, but whatever.)

[Maneo]

And that's the thing. It's a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the actual number of people playing the game. Until we can get an opinion from each and every one of them, then no poll on any site, even official forums, means a single thing.

and how do you propose we attain that data?

It isn't a stretch to deduce that since MMO Champ polls typically lean heavily towards the more hard core players (the polls regarding Cata heroics as a great example 80% in favor), that this majority represented here is probably a sign of a much higher majority of the actual players.

[Ordinator]

FWIW, I guess the recent poll should have some success at shutting up people yelling "you are the minority!!!11 noone wants flying":

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ght-on-Draenor

...because even here, on MMO-C, more than 50% actually want it back, or at least they say they do.

Yet when anyone spoke of a poll regarding flying around launch time when 64% of people wanted no flying, it was regarded as blasphemous to the pro flyers and wasn't allowed to be used as a talking point. I've gotten used to the hypocrisy in this thread though so carry on.

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and how do you propose we attain that data?

It isn't a stretch to deduce that since MMO Champ polls typically lean heavily towards the more hard core players (the polls regarding Cata heroics as a great example 80% in favor), that this majority represented here is probably a sign of a much higher majority of the actual players.

I wish someone would go back and dig up all the pro flying quotes regarding polls in this thread. The irony would be terrific.

[Maneo]

I wish someone would go back and dig up all the pro flying quotes regarding polls in this thread. The irony would be terrific.

Yet you won't find any that contradict what I just said.

[Deleted]

Yet when anyone spoke of a poll regarding flying around launch time when 64% of people wanted no flying

And now ask who hyped them. And now ask what people found out in the meantime. That there was no reason for a hype.

Playing the game offers not more fun without flying. It even takes away conveniences to make it more easy for people to play content.

[Ordinator]

And now ask who hyped them. And now ask what people found out in the meantime. That there was no reason for a hype.

Only if you are foolish enough to attribute any failure of this expansion with flying, of all the things wrong with it.