Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Mosotti]

You realise this is a semi-desired effect of no flying right? I'm sure Blizz don't want people to be ganked to the point of harassment, but being able to fly away just takes all danger from the world right there, usually on a PVP SERVER. If someone is inviting friends to help, then this is creating a meaningful conflict. That's only positive imo. On a pvp server especially you should have no complaints about being attacked. I love it personally. I'm always hoping i get attacked due to loving small scale pvp.

Just kinda realised Ashran will satisfy this gameplay of course, but elsewhere is has a place too.

You don't realize that having a supposedly great PvP zone like Ashran will be another nail in the world PvP shit? If they offer a zone with great incentives for PvP, then the rest of the world will be a ganker's paradise for the classes that have the means to shit on the other players.

For example, in Cata there were those group quests in TH, now as a single rogue I was able to keep them from completing those quest for like 2 hours, even though they brought imba level 85 players to help them. In Firelands there were groups trying to tame that spider, they had to suffer badly because of me, and they HATE IT. No one ever whispered to me "great world PvP man, keep it up", they were like "motherfucker I will kill you irl". I even reported some for making threats

Vanish is an EXTREMELY powerful ability that allows one single class to have a huge advantage. Now back then people would just fly up and wait for me to go away or maybe go to other places and do their shit until I got bored, but now they will just be forced to STOP PLAYING that toon. I was in the same situation at the beginning of MoP when Dawn Blossom was infested with gankers. Even a good PvP player or more can't do shit to protect someone less geared, because you kill them and... poof. Then you watch the silly "helpers" doing their shit useless AoE.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Given that 5 + million have actually left the game and not returned does it matter what type of gamer they are?

That isn't what I asked. I asked for a source on your "Blizzard listening to those hardcores" line..

[zerocarbs]

I didn't say that. I was trying to point out that using fliers for "the beautiful scenery" seems very uncommon, since afking in cities are a problem on Blizzards radar. Nowhere did I state that no flying will fix the afk problem, nor did I "link" them.

What does the "problem" of afk'ing in cities have to do with any of this? And why are you trying to claim that flying really isn't as important to the person you quoted as they say it is. Who are you to say what one player enjoys and doesn't enjoy. Sheesh

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Your official Blizzard Fanboy sunglasses are causing you to have a reading comprehension problem.

Thats what I thought. No answers, just insults.

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What does the "problem" of afk'ing in cities have to do with any of this? And why are you trying to claim that flying really isn't as important to the person you quoted as they say it is. Who are you to say what one player enjoys and doesn't enjoy. Sheesh

We aren't talking about the preferences of one single person. This is about how it effects the game as a whole.

My other point - If flying was so great, and the scenery so beautiful, people wouldn't just hang out in cities all the time. If 3% of the population flies around and looks at the scenery, is it really that important to the game? To Blizzard, would those 3% really be more important than designing the game the way they want?

[Sweetpeaz]

You're speaking of their decision to remove flying, I presume.

No. I am speaking of their reasoning for it. Their reasoning at max level is because of questing objectives, which is ridiculous. There isn't that much questing done at max level, to necessitate a wholesale change to travel in the game.

[Nayaga]

Thats what I thought. No answers, just insults.

I answer with my reply, you either reword them to say something I didn't say or ignore them. That makes you a waste of time. Not intended as in insult, just my personal observation.

[Awbee]

That isn't what I asked. I asked for a source on your "Blizzard listening to those hardcores" line..

The no flying thing seems to be Afrasiabi's brain child, and he's supposedly someone who loves catering to hardcores and nobody else.

I just find the stance so weird, trying to "return to the good ol' Vanilla days" by removing flying and creating special equipment only for the 2% most hardcore players, when at the same time selling level 90's to the masses and letting you farm gear with bots in garrisons is about as casual and non-immersive as it gets. It's the worst of both worlds, really.

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We aren't talking about the preferences of one single person. This is about how it effects the game as a whole.

My other point - If flying was so great, and the scenery so beautiful, people wouldn't just hang out in cities all the time. If 3% of the population flies around and looks at the scenery, is it really that important to the game? To Blizzard, would those 3% really be more important than designing the game the way they want?

At least you admit that Blizzard is purposefully shitting on the "3%" (I'd wager it's a lot more), so you'll have to concede that those "3%" have a legitimate right to complain and quit.


Counterpoint: if running around on the ground was so amazing, so immersive and so gameplay-enriching, why isn't everyone doing it?

a) Because it's really not all that great as people love claiming.

b) Because most WoW players love convenience. Which also explains why they rather sit in cities and queues than exploring beautiful landscapes, whether on the ground or from the air. The point is, they love convenience, and they're going to go batshit if you take huge chunks of convenience away from them, especially if they've grown used to them for years and years. Removing flying is similar to removing LFD. Imagine that was secretly introduced. A minority of vanilla nostalgics and a disproportionate amount of people on this forum would celebrate and call it the greatest feature ever, but once the masses found out after launch, they'd go ballistic and leave in spades.

And flying has been around quite a while longer than LFD. Rofl. It's going to be delicious.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I answer with my reply, you either reword them to say something I didn't say or ignore them. That makes you a waste of time. Not intended as in insult, just my personal observation.

I literally haven't change a single word you've written. But yeah, thats an insult. I would rather you just put me on ignore, instead of spamming me with those types of replies =\

You didn't answer me, you accused me of wearing fanboi sunglasses.

[Doomchicken]

You don't realize that having a supposedly great PvP zone like Ashran will be another nail in the world PvP shit? If they offer a zone with great incentives for PvP, then the rest of the world will be a ganker's paradise for the classes that have the means to shit on the other players.

For example, in Cata there were those group quests in TH, now as a single rogue I was able to keep them from completing those quest for like 2 hours, even though they brought imba level 85 players to help them. In Firelands there were groups trying to tame that spider, they had to suffer badly because of me, and they HATE IT. No one ever whispered to me "great world PvP man, keep it up", they were like "motherfucker I will kill you irl". I even reported some for making threats

Vanish is an EXTREMELY powerful ability that allows one single class to have a huge advantage. Now back then people would just fly up and wait for me to go away or maybe go to other places and do their shit until I got bored, but now they will just be forced to STOP PLAYING that toon. I was in the same situation at the beginning of MoP when Dawn Blossom was infested with gankers. Even a good PvP player or more can't do shit to protect someone less geared, because you kill them and... poof. Then you watch the silly "helpers" doing their shit useless AoE.

You're under the false assumption that the ilvl and power gap will be the same as it is now. With Less cc abilities, the ilvl of upscaling for pvp combat and the lesser power gap between levels due to stat squish should if implemented properly stop 100's from ganking 90's instantly then vanishing again. Sure, they could try, fail then run away again, but that's the nature of world pvp. If you can't handle it, then you shouldn't be on a pvp server.

[Sweetpeaz]

You're under the false assumption that the ilvl and power gap will be the same as it is now. With Less cc abilities, the ilvl of upscaling for pvp combat and the lesser power gap between levels due to stat squish should if implemented properly stop 100's from ganking 90's instantly then vanishing again. Sure, they could try, fail then run away again, but that's the nature of world pvp. If you can't handle it, then you shouldn't be on a pvp server.

That is an assumption, it's not a false one. In fact, as so many of you like to point out, we aren't playing the game yet all you can go by is what may happen. That may or not be end up being false, but if we judge by the current content, which is all we have, it's an accurate assumption to make. Right?????

[Doomchicken]

The no flying thing seems to be Afrasiabi's brain child, and he's supposedly someone who loves catering to hardcores and nobody else.

I just find the stance so weird, trying to "return to the good ol' Vanilla days" by removing flying and creating special equipment only for the 2% most hardcore players, when at the same time selling level 90's to the masses and letting you farm gear with bots in garrisons is about as casual and non-immersive as it gets. It's the worst of both worlds, really.

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At least you admit that Blizzard is purposefully shitting on the "3%" (I'd wager it's a lot more), so you'll have to concede that those "3%" have a legitimate right to complain and quit.


Counterpoint: if running around on the ground was so amazing, so immersive and so gameplay-enriching, why isn't everyone doing it?

a) Because it's really not all that great as people love claiming.

b) Because most WoW players love convenience. Which also explains why they rather sit in cities and queues than exploring beautiful landscapes, whether on the ground or from the air. The point is, they love convenience, and they're going to go batshit if you take huge chunks of convenience away from them, especially if they've grown used to them for years and years. Removing flying is similar to removing LFD. Imagine that was secretly introduced. A minority of vanilla nostalgics and a disproportionate amount of people on this forum would celebrate and call it the greatest feature ever, but once the masses found out after launch, they'd go ballistic and leave in spades.

And flying has been around quite a while longer than LFD. Rofl. It's going to be delicious.

If the lack of flying was so important why was there no mass quittings around timeless isle? You can't fly there. If your counterpoint is that it's optional content, then once you hit level 100, depending on what your end game goal is, isn't every zone optional content? Pretty sure I won't need to run around in nagrand in order to get gear good enough for raiding.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

The no flying thing seems to be Afrasiabi's brain child, and he's supposedly someone who loves catering to hardcores and nobody else.

I just find the stance so weird, trying to "return to the good ol' Vanilla days" by removing flying and creating special equipment only for the 2% most hardcore players, when at the same time selling level 90's to the masses and letting you farm gear with bots in garrisons is about as casual and non-immersive as it gets. It's the worst of both worlds, really.

Sooooo, no proof that its because of the "hardcores" ... as if Blizzard called all of those dirty "hardcores" and they all agreed on no flying .. What special equipment? When have they said anything about the "good old vanilla days?" Pardon me if I have missed it.

At least you admit that Blizzard is purposefully shitting on the "3%" (I'd wager it's a lot more), so you'll have to concede that those "3%" have a legitimate right to complain and quit.


Counterpoint: if running around on the ground was so amazing, so immersive and so gameplay-enriching, why isn't everyone doing it?

a) Because it's really not all that great as people love claiming.

b) Because most WoW players love convenience. Which also explains why they rather sit in cities and queues than exploring beautiful landscapes, whether on the ground or from the air. The point is, they love convenience, and they're going to go batshit if you take huge chunks of convenience away from them, especially if they've grown used to them for years and years. Removing flying is similar to removing LFD. Imagine that was secretly introduced. A minority of vanilla nostalgics and a disproportionate amount of people on this forum would celebrate and call it the greatest feature ever, but once the masses found out after launch, they'd go ballistic and leave in spades.

And flying has been around quite a while longer than LFD. Rofl. It's going to be delicious.

No, I don't think anyone is being "shit on" ... I think this decision goes counter to some peoples ridiculous reliance on convenience. Thats about it. There is nothing wrong with ground mounts at all. Flying isn;t even used that often in the huge scope of things. Raids, dungeons, bgs, arenas.. no flying allowed there. I alos don;t think the flying = lfd comparison is just or reasonable.

[Doomchicken]

That is an assumption, it's not a false one. In fact, as so many of you like to point out, we aren't playing the game yet all you can go by is what may happen. That may or not be end up being false, but if we judge by the current content, which is all we have, it's an accurate assumption to make. Right?????

They already have previewed all the systems that I've stated and all of them have been shown on this website. It's not a matter of if it's going to happen, but when. This isn't going to stop you from dying or getting ganged up on, nor should it. It is designed to bridge the power gap and give you a better fighting chance depending on skill level between combatants. If it works, then you'll get what you want, if it doesn't, then you can yell at blizzard about it. But assuming that everything is going to be exactly the same when they change all the variables is not an accurate assumption to make.

If you believe it is, it is your opinion, and I respect your opinion. But stating it as a fact that this is going to be the worst thing in the history of the world when everything is changing is probably over-reacting a little.

[Nayaga]

I literally haven't change a single word you've written. But yeah, thats an insult. I would rather you just put me on ignore, instead of spamming me with those types of replies =\

You didn't answer me, you accused me of wearing fanboi sunglasses.

I did provide direct answers to your questions and you did change want I've said in many threads, you are completely out to lunch.

[zerocarbs]

We aren't talking about the preferences of one single person. This is about how it effects the game as a whole.

My other point - If flying was so great, and the scenery so beautiful, people wouldn't just hang out in cities all the time. If 3% of the population flies around and looks at the scenery, is it really that important to the game? To Blizzard, would those 3% really be more important than designing the game the way they want?

We already know approximately half of all forum posters are in favor of flying because Blizzard has said as much so why throw out some ridiculously low number like 3% when trying to make a point? I want to take you seriously but you're making it extremely difficult.

And I still don't understand the "problem" of afk'ing in cities and what it has to do with flying. Would you rather those people log-out instead of afk?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I did provide direct answers to your questions and you did change want I've said in many threads, you are completely out to lunch.

Well, thats a lie. I haven't changed anything you've said. i don't have the power to edit your posts. You avoid my questions and just call names and such ..

[Awbee]

If the lack of flying was so important why was there no mass quittings around timeless isle? You can't fly there. If your counterpoint is that it's optional content, then once you hit level 100, depending on what your end game goal is, isn't every zone optional content? Pretty sure I won't need to run around in nagrand in order to get gear good enough for raiding.

Because a patched in area you dislike being on is not remotely close to having an entire new continent that you dislike being on. I've grown used to not liking the areas they introduce with patches, I didn't like the instanced Firelands, nor IoG, nor TI. It's annoying, but as long as I still had the entirety of beautiful Pandaria to spend my time on, I didn't mind too much. I don't have to spend time in those places, so I don't.

The big new continent and zones is THE reason I would buy an expansion for. If it's going to be hardly enjoyable, why would I?

Sooooo, no proof that its because of the "hardcores" ... as if Blizzard called all of those dirty "hardcores" and they all agreed on no flying .. What special equipment? When have they said anything about the "good old vanilla days?" Pardon me if I have missed it.

Most people who are against flying seem to validate it with "We had no flying in vanilla either and that was so great!" or "lol you babies just wanna skip content", etc. I at least perceive a very clear sentiment among that side that they perceive themselves to be more "hardcore" and "badass" than those who are pro flying.

Special equipment = mystical gear being more detailed and intricate looking than regular tier.

No, I don't think anyone is being "shit on" ... I think this decision goes counter to some peoples ridiculous reliance on convenience. Thats about it. There is nothing wrong with ground mounts at all. Flying isn;t even used that often in the huge scope of things. Raids, dungeons, bgs, arenas.. no flying allowed there. I alos don;t think the flying = lfd comparison is just or reasonable.

I spend most of my time in the open world, and I fly a lot more than I raid, do BG's or arenas. The only thing of that list I do somewhat frequently are dungeons, though I've also barely done any max level dungeons in Pandaria content. They don't interest me, and there's little reason to do them.

Why is not just or reasonable? Removing flying is a lot worse than removing LFD could ever be, in my opinion. LFD is truly just a means of getting somewhere, with no value itself. You can't "enjoy" the queue per se. But many people greatly, greatly enjoy flying itself. Removing flying hurts my enjoyment of the game a lot more than removing LFD would.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

We already know approximately half of all forum posters are in favor of flying because Blizzard has said as much so why throw out some ridiculously low number like 3% when trying to make a point? I want to take you seriously but you're making it extremely difficult.

And I still don't understand the "problem" of afk'ing in cities and what it has to do with flying. Would you rather those people log-out instead of afk?

Half of mmo-c =/= half the WoW community. I said 3% because I doubt (even people that want to keep flying) that very many people actually fly around "just for fun" for long periods of times. The 3% number wasn't intended to mean "everyone who wants flying to stay."

Blizzard has named afking in cities a problem. I was just point at a correlation. If flying and seeing the sites was so fun, more people would likely do it.

[Awbee]

Half of mmo-c =/= half the WoW community.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the number of no-flyers on mmo-c is disproportionally high compared to the normal player base. On here, you have lots of theoretics who love to speculate about how no flying could improve the game or how no LFD could improve the game. In game, the majority of players love flying, rush to buy flying the FIRST thing they do max level, and will not care about "but it's really great for content design". They'll just want to fly like they've been able to for 9 years, and will get really pissed if they suddenly can't. No reason will be good enough to explain that.

Blizzard has named afking in cities a problem.

If they wanted people out in the world, they should NOT remove flying. They also shouldn't have removed HGWT. The also should NOT sell 90 boosts. They also should NOT introduce garrisons with automated bots.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Most people who are against flying seem to validate it with "We had no flying in vanilla either and that was so great!" or "lol you babies just wanna skip content", etc. I at least perceive a very clear sentiment among that side that they perceive themselves to be more "hardcore" and "badass" than those who are pro flying.

Special equipment = mystical gear being more detailed and intricate looking than regular tier.

I spend most of my time in the open world, and I fly a lot more than I raid, do BG's or arenas. The only thing of that list I do somewhat frequently are dungeons, though I've also barely done any max level dungeons in Pandaria content. They don't interest me, and there's little reason to do them.

Why is not just or reasonable? Removing flying is a lot worse than removing LFD could ever be, in my opinion. LFD is truly just a means of getting somewhere, with no value itself. You can't "enjoy" the queue per se. But many people greatly, greatly enjoy flying itself. Removing flying hurts my enjoyment of the game a lot more than removing LFD would.

I haven't seen any "vanilla was awesome" posts while i have been in this thread. As far as mystical gear.. its a reward for doing a harder difficulty, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.


And flying is just a tool to get somewhere as well. thats it, it just makes travel faster. LFD on the other hand, brings groups together (which is what multiplayer games are all about). There is just no philosophical law, natural law, or otherwise that states we need flying, or that flying is better than LFD. Thats all subjective. i care little for either. (again, they are just a means to an end) I also think that more people would be pissed about the removal of the queuing systems than not-allowing flight on Draenor.

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Yeah, I'm pretty sure the number of no-flyers on mmo-c is disproportionally high compared to the normal player base. On here, you have lots of theoretics who love to speculate about how no flying could improve the game or how no LFD could improve the game. In game, the majority of players love flying, rush to buy flying the FIRST thing they do max level, and will not care about "but it's really great for content design". They'll just want to fly like they've been able to for 9 years, and will get really pissed if they suddenly can't. No reason will be good enough to explain that.




If they wanted people out in the world, they should NOT remove flying. They also shouldn't have removed HGWT. The also should NOT sell 90 boosts. They also should NOT introduce garrisons with automated bots.

I doubt it. No one has beeen flying for 9 years. The majority of these players probably haven't been playing for anywhere near 9 years, and none of them have been flying for that long. i also don't think anywhere near as many people care about flight that much. Flying will still be in the game though.

I don't know about any of those choices. I'm not a game designer, or a philosopher or anything like that. I can really only tell you my preferences.