Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Drytoast]

Glad to see my last post directed toward you is holding true. "you're wrong because i say so" and who are you again? A forum troll? K

It's not "cause I said so"

When you say wpvp will be increased, and then I say no and show you the faction imbalance on most pvp servers...that's how I know your wrong.

If you say "I can't level to 90 on a ground mount because it puts me at a disadvantage" if i had half a bother, i'd go level a stupid alt up to 90 using a ground mount just to disprove your stupid theory. but i don't have to because we both know I could...again...your wrong.

If you say "flying mounts break immersion" i point out that immersion /= social interaction because uhm...hello! single player games everywhere say hi!

Just so we are clear on immersion "immersion = deep mental involvement." It says NOTHING about needing to interact with other players. If a person is flying on a mount, than they might be deeply involved into the game as they survey they land...

So yeah. You bring some stupid self made definition of the word...drytoast just grabs the damn dictionary.
https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=...sl#q=immersion

See? that's how I smash your arguments.

[CheeseSandwich]

@ Ordinator - Well, I will offer my apologies at this time. I was hoping to have a direct, and emotion free discussion about your position. However, it would seem my post has been set adrift in a sea of aggressive commentary to others. Should you decide to block them out for a few minutes, you know where to find me, and my post. If not, I understand. Much like other posters in this thread, you are only interested in expressing emotion, and getting the last word.

Please don't blame others posting for his lack of wanting to engage with you. Your post deserved a response from him, but he chose to attack someone else.

[Drytoast]

PvP servers will be PvP servers again? Neat.

Not unless you find a way to spawn 9000+ horde on my server alone...no there will not be pvp.

[quras]

The removal of flight on Draenor breaks my immersion in the game.

After 7+ years I know removing flight at max level kills immersion for me.

I'd like to think my toon is pretty badass. I'd like to imagine at max level he takes to the skies, flying out in the world and finds a remote place to kill some interesting things.

If I get there and there are 30 others wandering around. That really does make me feel immersed in the game. Kinda kills the mood. Like telling someone your favorite fishing spot and then going there and it's crowded. Kinda kills the fun.

[Nayaga]

@ Ordinator - Well, I will offer my apologies at this time. I was hoping to have a direct, and emotion free discussion about your position. However, it would seem my post has been set adrift in a sea of aggressive commentary to others. Should you decide to block them out for a few minutes, you know where to find me, and my post. If not, I understand. Much like other posters in this thread, you are only interested in expressing emotion, and getting the last word.

I've tried to get him to debate in the past with direct call outs, he ignored my attempts with insults back or misdirection. He just wants to troll and insult, not debate. Don't waste your time.

[Drytoast]

I've tried to get him to debate in the past with direct call outs, he ignored my attempts with insults back or misdirection. He just wants to troll and insult, not debate. Don't waste your time.

I called him and that Ygg guy out for being trolls. Ygg only chimes in once every ten pages or so to proclaim no flight is the best thing ever, without ever backing that up with a concrete reason as to why, based on facts.

It seems to be a pattern.

[Real World]

Please don't blame others posting for his lack of wanting to engage with you. Your post deserved a response from him, but he chose to attack someone else.

In all fairness, regardless of his position, or response, he had been attacked in several posts before my response back made its way to the page. I am not blaming anyone for his lack of response, but him. He could have ignored the others and focused on the constructive comments, but in the end, just like the other emotionally charges posters in the thread, it was more important to argue through semantics and insults, than to step back and take an objective view at the response. The only other person I can blame is myself, for expecting adult responses in an emotionally charged topic.

- - - Updated - - -

I've tried to get him to debate in the past with direct call outs, he ignored my attempts with insults back or misdirection. He just wants to troll and insult, not debate. Don't waste your time.

I'm hopeful he will take the time to respond, but considering his action, and the action of several others in this thread, this topic has simply fallen into insults and disparaging remarks. At this point, it would be more prudent to have a Moderator examine it, and in my opinion, lock it. There's been little to no constructive dialog for 300 pages, and members on both sides are to blame.

[Drytoast]

In all fairness, regardless of his position, or response, he had been attacked in several posts before my response back made its way to the page. I am not blaming anyone for his lack of response, but him. He could have ignored the others and focused on the constructive comments, but in the end, just like the other emotionally charges posters in the thread, it was more important to argue through semantics and insults, than to step back and take an objective view at the response. The only other person I can blame is myself, for expecting adult responses in an emotionally charged topic.

We've asked for constructive comments roughly 400 pages ago. I mean, you could go back to page 10 and read how this all got started. At this point you are not going to get anything out of him other than what he believes might happen, and maybe things will be the way he hopes...and yadda yadda yadda.

That's all he's said for 400 pages, and if you really wanted to know you could just filter this thread to just his responses and grab them there.

[Dormie]

The removal of flight on Draenor breaks my immersion in the game.

And having flight in game breaks my immersion in the game.


People are so simple minded on these forums. Because I know the response coming is 'then don't use flying mounts'. Quit being ignorant to the fact that it doesn't work that way. Purposely handicapping yourself is not fun or immersive.

[Real World]

We've asked for constructive comments roughly 400 pages ago. I mean, you could go back to page 10 and read how this all got started. At this point you are not going to get anything out of him other than what he believes might happen, and maybe things will be the way he hopes...and yadda yadda yadda.

That's all he's said for 400 pages, and if you really wanted to know you could just filter this thread to just his responses and grab them there.

I absolutely could. But the point of this exercise was to de-escalate the conversation, and start a constructive dialog among all involved. At this point, from where I am sitting, everyone's post is looking like a certain superhero who has since left the thread. When the loudest, and craziest guy drops the subject and walks away, it makes me take a long, hard look at the conversation to see what prompted it.

[quras]

SNIP... At this point, it would be more prudent to have a Moderator examine it, and in my opinion, lock it. There's been little to no constructive dialog for 300 pages, and members on both sides are to blame.

Ugh no.

This thread needs to stay open and individual posters need to be removed. Similar to Superman and his ban, if you can't post decent enough, mods can then go to work. Locking the thread is what someone wants to happen when it's not going their way so they incite others with bad posts and troll. Thats why you see posts like that.

There needs to be a singular place for this debate/discussion. This would be that place.

[Barkloud]

@ Ordinator - Well, I will offer my apologies at this time. I was hoping to have a direct, and emotion free discussion about your position. However, it would seem my post has been set adrift in a sea of aggressive commentary to others. Should you decide to block them out for a few minutes, you know where to find me, and my post. If not, I understand. Much like other posters in this thread, you are only interested in expressing emotion, and getting the last word.

Much of this could be settled by direct communication by Blizzard, don't you think?

Your comments saying multiple posters are simply expressing emotion devalues their comments toward the argument regarding flying/no flying in WoD.

[Tech Priest Bojangles]

And having flight in game breaks my immersion in the game.


People are so simple minded on these forums. Because I know the response coming is 'then don't use flying mounts'. Quit being ignorant to the fact that it doesn't work that way. Purposely handicapping yourself is not fun or immersive.

Isn't that exactly what having flying removed is?
Instead of doing it yourself, you're asking Blizzard to do it.

[Dormie]

Isn't that exactly what having flying removed is?
Instead of doing it yourself, you're asking Blizzard to do it.

No, if flying isn't there it isn't there. The same reason you don't feel handicapped now because flying mounts don't have 600% speed.

[CheeseSandwich]

And having flight in game breaks my immersion in the game.


People are so simple minded on these forums. Because I know the response coming is 'then don't use flying mounts'. Quit being ignorant to the fact that it doesn't work that way. Purposely handicapping yourself is not fun or immersive.

Then you were playing a game you didn't feel particularly immersed in all this time, waiting for the day it was removed?

So you would rather Blizz purposely handicap everyone, to increase fun and immersion?

[Cassidin]

All of those fall under "I want!' .... accomplishment? The only way you feel accomplished is by training flight? None of those reason are universal "better for the game" reasons. They just fall under very personal preference. You can still use those mounts. "Fast" is exactly what Blizzard has stated they want to avoid.

And your reasons for removing it that dont fall into very personal preference? There are none. At least no realistic one. There is a very wishy washy "oh it will be more engaging and more immersive" but thats just bull. I can drive to work - quickly.... or I can walk to work. Walking takes more time of course, but it is much more immersive.... I mean I'm out on the street, breathing in fumes... I really feel like I'm there. Driving, the ride is over before its started. Walking is much better! The argument that walking is a better way of getting to work there - is about as good as any of the arguments ive seen to remove flying.

[Real World]

And having flight in game breaks my immersion in the game.


People are so simple minded on these forums. Because I know the response coming is 'then don't use flying mounts'. Quit being ignorant to the fact that it doesn't work that way. Purposely handicapping yourself is not fun or immersive.

While you are certainly entitled to this opinion, as someone who enjoys the speed and convenience of flight, and who has collected most of the flying mounts in the game, I have to disagree with the last sentence in your statement. Now, more than ever, in WoD, Garrisons will be fueling your gathering, farming, cooking, fishing, crafting, and stat boosting for your character. You no longer have to spend time in the main world to progress in Raids, Dungeons, BGs, and Arenas. In fact, your 10 followers can even run Dungeons and such for you, and get you gear. You don't even have to be present to win (so to speak). So, in the new expansion, flying will no longer "handicap" your sense of progression, not that it ever did before. Now, more than ever, flying will be useless except to those who enjoy it.

Now, does it still trivialize end game questing/dailies? Sure. You can still swoop in, do what you must, and fly off. Can you still avoid trash mobs at level cap? Absolutely. You can slide right past them. But, does flying actually prevent you from being a realm first raider? No. It also doesn't help you become one. There is no flying inside of instances, so raiders are at no disadvantage. In fact, most indoor instanced content allows you to mount up and ride when not in combat. There are many rules that flying "flies" in the face of (pardon the pun), but handicapping people who prefer to use ground mounts, particularly in WoD, is not one of them. With Garrisons doing all the heavy lifting, I would be surprised if people with Tier 3 garrisons ever step foot outside of them, especially if their bank alt handles all of their AH business.

[Tech Priest Bojangles]

No, if flying isn't there it isn't there. The same reason you don't feel handicapped now because flying mounts don't have 600% speed.

But we never had 600% flying speed. They can't take away what we don't have.
What we do have is flying.

Just because you like to stay grounded, you're asking for Blizzard to remove that feature from everyone.... Do you realize how bad that sounds?

[Sweetpeaz]

And i would say social interaction (beyond the chat box, because god i have the distinction) is more so in the definition of an MMO than unbound flying mounts by a mile. So if were going to pick what an MMO is composed of one vs the other.. Flying is easily gone.

But I still fail to see how flight has broken any of that. You can't force interaction with people. They will either do it or they won't. Good content alone will make opportunities for a more social experience, but that still doesn't mean that it will occur.

Keep in mind, we are also talking about max level. That is a different beast entirely, in that at max level your progression path is what dictates the type of interaction you have.

That's not to say that you aren't allowed to feel how you want. But you make arguments that reek of the obama administration; you create a strawman and then tear it down, as if it's the only solution. That's dishonest to begin with. Again, you are free to like this change and embrace it. Why can't you just say that, instead of trying to discount views of others based on fallacious items you bring to the table?

[Real World]

Ugh no.

This thread needs to stay open and individual posters need to be removed. Similar to Superman and his ban, if you can't post decent enough, mods can then go to work. Locking the thread is what someone wants to happen when it's not going their way so they incite others with bad posts and troll. Thats why you see posts like that.

There needs to be a singular place for this debate/discussion. This would be that place.

Well then, in the interest of keeping this place of discussion open, maybe we can all agree to /report and move on rather than perpetuate emotional bickering. This thread is only as effective as its content. From the 553 pages thus far, I might find 30 pages worth of logical, and reasonable statements not rooted in sentiment or emotion. Showing your passion is one thing, but when there is something bigger on the line, it is time to reel it in and start steeping things in fact. Both sides should take this to heart, and establish how much they want their side to be taken seriously if, and when, Blizzard ever reads this thread. If they pull a fact sheet on it, see the same 15 people, and start examining those comments, the profound and constructive statements made by others will be over looked and tossed aside with the dramatics in which they were enveloped.