Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Ordinator]

Yes cause travel times only matter from quest hub to quest hub ... are you fucking serious?

It is the bulk of the travel time so beyond that all you're complaining about is not being able to sling shot yourself from one objective to the next as fast as you'd like ignoring everything and everyone in between.

[Nayaga]

Yes cause travel times only matter from quest hub to quest hub ... are you fucking serious?

The sad part is we are dumb enough to debate with them. Who is the bigger idiot, us or them?

[Dormie]

The sad part is we are dumb enough to debate with them. Who is the bigger idiot, us or them?

You have to make a point before you reach that conclusion. "I don't wanna travel" is not a point.

[Maneo]

The sad part is we are dumb enough to debate with them. Who is the bigger idiot, us or them?

that is a very good point.

Honestly I am not even sure you could call it debate... cause they have no points.

I will leave for the evening with the same simple question that has yet to be answered.

How is the removal of flight going to improve our in game experience on PVE servers (over 50% of the player base)

Still waiting

[Dormie]

How is the removal of flight going to improve our in game experience on PVE servers (over 50% of the player base)

Still waiting

It's been answered you just make up excuses when people tell you.

[Ordinator]

It's been answered you just make up excuses when people tell you.

Pretty much this. And he skipped my post countering his point just to quote and agree with something as meaningless as this..

The sad part is we are dumb enough to debate with them. Who is the bigger idiot, us or them?

[Barkloud]

It's been answered you just make up excuses when people tell you.

The only answer we have is it is going to do absolutely nothing.

I have to remember not to get upset about it. We all know when people start dinging 100 and cannot find the flight master flying will be back.

Thank goodness for the casual player base and there sensibility. It is the only thing keeping this game a float.

[Dormie]

The only answer we have is it is going to do absolutely nothing.

I have to remember not to get upset about it. We all know when people start dinging 100 and cannot find the flight master flying will be back.

Thank goodness for the casual player base and there sensibility. It is the only thing keeping this game a float.

The 2 biggest things it does for me personally is increase immersion and make the world feel more alive, which itself adds to the immersion. When you are in the world not over it you have a different mentality about it. And seeing people around makes the world feel less stale. Not only seeing them around, but knowing you're sharing the area with them because they won't be up into the air and in a different zone in under 3 seconds.

There's other perks such as WPvP(which does happen btw, maybe you're too high up to see?), possibly more socialization and SLOWING DOWN THE GAMES PACE. Which some of you like to use as a negative, this is something WoW NEEDS. It is too fast paced compared to how it used to be. So you can call it Devs trying to gate you, they would probably refer to it as slowing down the games pace. It is a good thing.

And all of this traded for instant transmission and 'ooh pretty tree tops, flying is so fun!!'. You can make your arguments and say none of this applies to you and how none of it's fun. But that'd be your opinion, and probably not the most common opinion. Because everything I just said no flying does are basically facts. They are things that will happen due to everyone being grounded. You can say you don't find it fun and how it's going to be too hard to get around(which it's not, it's just not going to be overly easy), but that's basically the only rebuttal.

[Mafic]

I am personally not interested in personal opinions of what people find fun or not because that is covered over hundreds of pages in this thread. What I have discovered with the beta is that the TI set up didn't work out so Blizzard went back to their proven questing formula and even incorporated garrisons to integrate with such a leveling experience.

The flight paths do not have logical efficiency just like live, the number of teleports needed to reach places has increased (compared to MoP ). The geomorphology of the terrain indeed is not friendly to ground mounts and creates situations where you have to go on a long winding meandering path that is not the most direct to reach across a zone. NPC's with stuns and and other CC are plentiful and the mob density is too high. The faction "cities" are now off the main continent (lulz) and the garrison is a personalized instance.

Basically, if Blizzard's goal was world immersion they failed on an epic scale. Phasing is still in zones making it feel empty because you are on a different part of the quest than other players. So many instances and teleports taking players out of the world. Ashran is a giant PVP island that is instanced. PVE/PVP queue system has been improved upon making it more enticing for players to use in WoD with greater rewards than MoP. Blizzard has also said that they will ensure that reaching level 100 is quicker than it was in MoP reaching 90...doesn't Blizzard see these problems?

Blizzard has spent a lot of time making the WoD continent but they have made a series of decisions that ensure the continent will be dead at level cap within one month. And restricting flying only exacerbates this problem with world immersion. Punishing players that explore the world with a flying mount is not a good idea IMVHO.

[Aehl]

Mafic: Ouch.

[Deleted]

How is the removal of flight going to improve our in game experience on PVE servers (over 50% of the player base)

Still waiting

I am a PVE player and the game will be improved in a way that the world will be designed around no flying, which means more mountain climbing, walking on paths and looking at all the beautiful details in the world. I will see more people in the world (since there is less room to spread out) and actually feel like playing an MMO.

[Ordinator]

I am a PVE player and the game will be improved in a way that the world will be designed around no flying, which means more mountain climbing, walking on paths and looking at all the beautiful details in the world. I will see more people in the world (since there is less room to spread out) and actually feel like playing an MMO.

Very solid points. Sadly I've been through the pages of this thread long enough to know exactly what half baked responses you'll get.

[Deleted]

Very solid points. Sadly I've been through the pages of this thread long enough to know exactly what half baked responses you'll get.

Well, the only thing that matters is Blizzard agrees with us.

[Deleted]

The geomorphology of the terrain indeed is not friendly to ground mounts and creates situations where you have to go on a long winding meandering path that is not the most direct to reach across a zone.

Sounds like the maps were planned out long before they found themselves in front of the gates of Damascus, having their no-flying epiphany, and that they were actually designed with flying in mind. I hope they're busy working on that "epic" flight quest, even if it costs us 7 raid tiers.

[Anzaman]

Also add the WoWpedia, Thottbot, etc etc ... the whole concept of hidden areas is moot.

It's unavoidable that such websites will be created, but nobody is forcing you to use them.

You found that video cool? Not very sophisticated are ya? You probably also found transformers 4 awesome as well amirite? Blizzard names a frog rare some stupid name and that's enough to sell you! Lol

Actually, Transformers IV has okay, a bit too much action and too small amount of story but yeah, worth the 12.5 euro I spent.

[Belisaurio]

That's a lot of ifs/cans and buts. I do get your point. If content is engaging, and fun, and rewarding to be down on the ground, by all means, let's try this. But given their current apporach(timeless isle design, where most of the time you navigate around the mobs with stuns, dazes, etc), where those are just random mobs that serve no purpose whatsover but to hinder me and stand between me and my objective(getting to raid, doing dailes, farming, w/e), with a sole purpose to increase my logged time, then that's really not cool. Forcefully and artificaically prolonging their content is kinda bad, wouldn't you agree, especially if it's only purpose for this removal is to increase travel time, from what would take few minutes, to 20+ minutes? Every time, especially if it's daily routine, like specific farming spot that has no FP.

I completely agree with you here. Blizz never did a good job to improve gameplay before (only a small-test in timeless island). I understand that the last expansion had 0 improve in any travel forms, even Cata had a really bad designed travel-tools. Maybe you are right, and we can't have any faith in Blizzard, but I want to be the other side of the coin (maybe because I'm a Blizzard fan since the Lost Vikings).

Most of us here saw videos from Beta, there's nothing rewarding down there, just mobs, same as usual, piled up, and half of them with charge, half of them are elite that drop only silver. How is that engaging and fun?

Yes. I'm with you here. I only hope that Blizz knows what they are doing. At the moment, we don't have any gameplay of max-level content, but the first two zones don't have anything really relevant about any travel-form. I can't answer that, maybe you gave me the point that it's not worth to continue playing this game anymore :S But, I will continue playing until kill some raid-bosses (some friends are returning to WoD, so I'm going to raid a little bit!!!).

How is the removal of flight going to improve our in game experience on PVE servers (over 50% of the player base)

This question was answered multiple times with some diferent answers.

Basically, if Blizzard's goal was world immersion they failed on an epic scale. Phasing is still in zones making it feel empty because you are on a different part of the quest than other players. So many instances and teleports taking players out of the world. Ashran is a giant PVP island that is instanced. PVE/PVP queue system has been improved upon making it more enticing for players to use in WoD with greater rewards than MoP. Blizzard has also said that they will ensure that reaching level 100 is quicker than it was in MoP reaching 90...doesn't Blizzard see these problems?

There are some dev. formulas in MMOs (most of them, asian formulas) that the game itself gave you too much exp, and you reach max-level when you only see 50% of the current zones. So the other 50% is the max-level content. I'm not sure that Blizzard is doing something similar (and I don't see them doing anything like this, btw). Another point is all that "phasing", do you see any improve after you completed all phasing? Maybe, the "improve" that we are looking for is at the end of the phasings in every zone (like ICC, etc...).

[khalltusk]

I had fun with no flying in Vanilla. Trying to get to places I should not was actually quite fun. But that was only a few hours of my play time period. Other than that my time was either grinding mats, doing dungeons/raids or the odd BG.

TBC was the same - Wrath the same Cata the same MoP the same.

WoD won't be any different for me. The only thing no flying has done for me is added a bit of inconvenience. Not the end of the world by any means but I don't see much point in it being removed in the first place. The reasoning behind it seems half baked to me.

[Noybbs]

The sad part is we are dumb enough to debate with them. Who is the bigger idiot, us or them?

You are an idiot if you try to have a discussion with fanboys, imbeciles and forum trolls.

[Maneo]

I am a PVE player and the game will be improved in a way that the world will be designed around no flying, which means more mountain climbing, walking on paths and looking at all the beautiful details in the world. I will see more people in the world (since there is less room to spread out) and actually feel like playing an MMO.

mountain climbing, walking on paths, and beautiful details (how long is that going to really last), I am not talking flight while leveling I am talking flight at max level. Although I agree with those three points being neat it will not lost beyond the leveling content maybe 3 months.

As far as seeing people out in the world that was accomplished with flight, Battlefield Barrens, Golden Lotus, Shield Wall etc ... so that is a moot point.

Seeing people well Blizz has gimped that with all the zone phasing they have become so fond of.

I am personally not interested in personal opinions of what people find fun or not because that is covered over hundreds of pages in this thread. What I have discovered with the beta is that the TI set up didn't work out so Blizzard went back to their proven questing formula and even incorporated garrisons to integrate with such a leveling experience.

The flight paths do not have logical efficiency just like live, the number of teleports needed to reach places has increased (compared to MoP ). The geomorphology of the terrain indeed is not friendly to ground mounts and creates situations where you have to go on a long winding meandering path that is not the most direct to reach across a zone. NPC's with stuns and and other CC are plentiful and the mob density is too high. The faction "cities" are now off the main continent (lulz) and the garrison is a personalized instance.

Basically, if Blizzard's goal was world immersion they failed on an epic scale. Phasing is still in zones making it feel empty because you are on a different part of the quest than other players. So many instances and teleports taking players out of the world. Ashran is a giant PVP island that is instanced. PVE/PVP queue system has been improved upon making it more enticing for players to use in WoD with greater rewards than MoP. Blizzard has also said that they will ensure that reaching level 100 is quicker than it was in MoP reaching 90...doesn't Blizzard see these problems?

Blizzard has spent a lot of time making the WoD continent but they have made a series of decisions that ensure the continent will be dead at level cap within one month. And restricting flying only exacerbates this problem with world immersion. Punishing players that explore the world with a flying mount is not a good idea IMVHO.

Well said and hopefully either the rest of beta will be drastically different or Blizz will enable flight... I sincerely doubt either cause Blizz is bull headed and creatively bankrupt.

- - - Updated - - -

I had fun with no flying in Vanilla. Trying to get to places I should not was actually quite fun. But that was only a few hours of my play time period. Other than that my time was either grinding mats, doing dungeons/raids or the odd BG.

TBC was the same - Wrath the same Cata the same MoP the same.

WoD won't be any different for me. The only thing no flying has done for me is added a bit of inconvenience. Not the end of the world by any means but I don't see much point in it being removed in the first place. The reasoning behind it seems half baked to me.

So basically you are primarily a instance player, so the removal of flight would have minimal effect upon you.

You are an idiot if you try to have a discussion with fanboys, imbeciles and forum trolls.

I fear you may be correct.

- - - Updated - - -

This question was answered multiple times with some diferent answers.

And everyone of them has been rebuted with no furthther explanation

See people in the world .. well they accomplished that with Shield Wall, Battlefield Barrens, and the Golden Lotus dailies and we could fly.

Walking paths, mountains and scenery - how long is that going last beyond the leveling experience, how long will it be fun or interesting at max level 3 months tops.

You are the only person(that is a regular on this board) that is anti flight that seems to have enough sense that you could rub two pennies together.

Your point I conceded to it with you it basically comes down to faith in Blizzard. You have it I don't. The problem arises though with posters coming from beta pretty much enforcing what i believe (granted only two zones but confidence isn't high)

[quras]

The 2 biggest things it does for me personally

We'll it's good to know you are looking at it personally VS a benefit to the game as a whole. Sadly, no flying past max level is not not a benefit.

is increase immersion and make the world feel more alive, which itself adds to the immersion. When you are in the world not over it you have a different mentality about it. And seeing people around makes the world feel less stale. Not only seeing them around, but knowing you're sharing the area with them because they won't be up into the air and in a different zone in under 3 seconds.

Maybe it does for you but unfortunately others disagree and to put a finer point on it: No flying at this point in the game actually hinders immersion across the board. You have to willing suspend what you know to be working to make no flying happen. Suddenly, nothing can fly but FP's still work and they fly. Suddenly, onxyia cannot fly, mimerons head cannot flying, gyrocopters cannot fly, mystical flaming birds cannot fly. That alone kills immersion and forces you create reason why. It's immersion breaking at this point in the game. No flying is not creating immersion but hindering in the game overall.

There's other perks such as WPvP(which does happen btw, maybe you're too high up to see?), possibly more socialization and SLOWING DOWN THE GAMES PACE. Which some of you like to use as a negative, this is something WoW NEEDS. It is too fast paced compared to how it used to be. So you can call it Devs trying to gate you, they would probably refer to it as slowing down the games pace. It is a good thing.

Another thing thats not going to happen. How do you know this? Because if gamers wanted to WPVP they would have already been doing it and in much greater numbers. It does not happen with any significance and no flying isn't bringing it back. There are no rewards for wpvp and gamers seem to be done with killing just for fun unless you're talking about the gankers and if thats true. No one gives a shit about them.

You will not see more socialization. Thats apparent in the beta now. There is no reason to socialize any more than past expansions. Max level no flying sure as hell isn't going to change that.

Slowing down the games pace? Maybe but what we do know is it's just not fun. We have seen it in TI style content. Worth seeing once and then never going back. TI was not some amazing content when we got it and it's still not interesting enough to go back to much less base an expansions max level play on it. The real kicker here is you cannot slow down a gamers consumption enough to matter just because you made them run on the ground unless you make a crap load of worthless mobs in their way and that is neither fun or enjoyable and that line of development should never be pursued in game design.

wow may need some of that but no flying at max level isn't going to bring it. If anything, more gamers will simply not go out in the world. Que for what they need or stay in their garrisons. You will be ignored entirely if you so see them in the world as gamers fixate on their task given no flight makes it all more tedious and a burden to do. So simple things like mat gathering becomes a single minded event and gamers get tunnel visioned in their attempt to complete it in a timely manner so that it doesn't feel like a job.

No flying at max level is not a good thing for the game or gamers.

And all of this traded for instant transmission and 'ooh pretty tree tops, flying is so fun!!'. You can make your arguments and say none of this applies to you and how none of it's fun. But that'd be your opinion,

Kinda like what you said is just your personal opinion?

and probably not the most common opinion.

Given blizzard statement I'd say about 50/50. Things could tilt either way it seems. Why do you think blizzard is keeping their mounts shut till box sales are ready?

Because everything I just said no flying does are basically facts.

Incorrect and I told you why. Opinions yes, facts... Not even close.

They are things that will happen due to everyone being grounded.

Sure are, it's not going to be nearly as fun or entertaining as it was in every expansions this game has ever released. However, what you wont see is WPVP return. You wont see more socialization because gamers attitude will not suddenly change because they cannot fly. You will not see more poeple in the world because gamer will be in garrisons or queuing up. We know from experience TI content wasn't that good or lasting content - it's not bring gamers to the yard.

You can say you don't find it fun and how it's going to be too hard to get around(which it's not, it's just not going to be overly easy), but that's basically the only rebuttal.

No flying at max level is not fun. No flying hinders immersion more than it helps at this point in the game if thats your argument (though it is a bad one to use). The convenience of course is great after spending 10 levels on the ground. Trudging though worthless trash mobs i snot enjoyable especially at max level. Gamers will have no real reason to get out in the world when it's not fun or enjoyable and no flying turns just simple mat gathering into more of a chore than it already is.

Sure flying in convenient but there is nothing wrong with that either. It's not a hindrance to the game or game design. We know that from TBC and WoTLK sub numbers. IF it was hurting wow we would have seen it then. Shit story and content in the last 2 expansions hurt wow - not max level flying.

I am a PVE player and the game will be improved in a way that the world will be designed around no flying, which means more mountain climbing, walking on paths and looking at all the beautiful details in the world. I will see more people in the world (since there is less room to spread out) and actually feel like playing an MMO.

Actually you are incorrect.

The gaming world will be no different. With or without flying you have always had gamrs in questing areas. That will not change nor be improved especially at max level. What you will see happen is less people out in the would if no flying at max level stays. It simply won't be worth it at max level and TI-style content.

As far as mountains to mountain climbing, walking paths and a beautiful world that is all subjective and up to the player. You can currently do that now and there is no, so called, "Competition" in that activity. You either do it or you don't. Flying or no flying will not suddenly make gamers want to run on foot up a mountain because it's "Fun".

You will not see more people in the world. No more than you already do in areas that draw people to the them. (AKA questing areas)