Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[MasterOfNone]

While I do agree with this, this is one instance that I think many subscribers have not listened close enough.

There are people playing, probably numerous, that thought that they could still play and that Blizzard would listen and implement. For people who have thought that the only metric that mattered was sub numbers, people who continued to play, may have well just said they loved no flight. Because the difference is the same.

well to blizzard i agree. they probably see it as x number of subs is ok. therefore our decision was sound, regardless of how many people still want flight back that are subbed. realistically however you cant ever get EVERY player who desires a change, to quit playing. some people this is all they have for entertainment. some people dislike it but arent put off by it enough to cancel. its really hard to measure.

[Sweetpeaz]

Problem you guys are forgetting with all your arguments. Is they aren't bleeding Subscribers, they gained nearly 4 million since MoP. Everything in their book is saying, removing flying was the right decision. Why change, what appears to be working. Yeah they may lose some of the 10 million slowly, still that's a ridiculous huge fan base. Considering most MMO's only survive on the 750k-1million subs.

Honestly, I don't see what the big hoopla is, flying is pointless. Going back to the old worlds and flying, honestly feels slower than just using the flight path in WoD or any of the other options. You know taking a flight path from Ashran to your Garrison is faster than flying from Hellfire Peninsula "Dark Portal" to Nagrand, which is suppose to be the same distance.

They didn't anything based on actual game play. There is always a sub bounce when a new expansion is released.

Great that you don't see a problem. I bet you use your flying mounts when you do have flight though.....pretty typical.

[MasterOfNone]

Problem you guys are forgetting with all your arguments. Is they aren't bleeding Subscribers, they gained nearly 4 million since MoP. Everything in their book is saying, removing flying was the right decision. Why change, what appears to be working. Yeah they may lose some of the 10 million slowly, still that's a ridiculous huge fan base. Considering most MMO's only survive on the 750k-1million subs.

Honestly, I don't see what the big hoopla is, flying is pointless. Going back to the old worlds and flying, honestly feels slower than just using the flight path in WoD or any of the other options. You know taking a flight path from Ashran to your Garrison is faster than flying from Hellfire Peninsula "Dark Portal" to Nagrand, which is suppose to be the same distance.

curious. how do you KNOW this? i am still waiting for numbers as like many others. to the best of my knowledge, there is no way to say (that the player base knows) how many subs are left. in that respect, the arguments are still valid. everything THEY wanted is working out. a true representation of your fans happiness is based upon the developers? i hardly think so.

[Sweetpeaz]

well to blizzard i agree. they probably see it as x number of subs is ok. therefore our decision was sound, regardless of how many people still want flight back that are subbed. realistically however you cant ever get EVERY player who desires a change, to quit playing. some people this is all they have for entertainment. some people dislike it but arent put off by it enough to cancel. its really hard to measure.

You are right. I'm not at all advocating that people who don't like no flight need to quit. I'm saying that if you were thinking that others would take the bullet for you, you'd be wrong.

This is why Blizzard doesn't give in, when things like CRZ, or virtual realms or class nerfs occur. Because most of what happens in the forum is just noise. Like a bunch of babies throwing a fit.

[rebecca191]

Problem you guys are forgetting with all your arguments. Is they aren't bleeding Subscribers, they gained nearly 4 million since MoP. Everything in their book is saying, removing flying was the right decision. Why change, what appears to be working. Yeah they may lose some of the 10 million slowly, still that's a ridiculous huge fan base. Considering most MMO's only survive on the 750k-1million subs.

Honestly, I don't see what the big hoopla is, flying is pointless. Going back to the old worlds and flying, honestly feels slower than just using the flight path in WoD or any of the other options. You know taking a flight path from Ashran to your Garrison is faster than flying from Hellfire Peninsula "Dark Portal" to Nagrand, which is suppose to be the same distance.

The sub gain at launch only means the marketing was good. What matters is if they keep it. I personally see subs going down faster than in MoP but time will tell.

[MasterOfNone]

I don't dispute this. If the expansion is failing regardless of whether or not flight is in or out, then flying has less to do with it than presumed.

i think that this cant be stressed enough. maybe this does seem just like a qq thread to a lot of people, but in reality what i see is a company failing at a job. not just taking away my toys. speaking for myself, i want to express my opinion NOW with such a drastic change in hopes of change as opposed to 2 expansions down the road where blizzard has completely ruined the game from any number of perspectives. my line of thinking is if you pay for entertainment, you should be entertained. when you stop becoming entertained, you should speak up. especially in a sense where the person providing the entertainment makes claims about how they take one thing away from you so they can give you a "better" entertainment experience later. i know of course my entertainment =/= other peoples' entertainment, but its not just me irritated with the situation either. i think that if i want my entertainment back or "better", then i need to be a voice now when stupid decisions are made. not stay subbed for another 2 years or whatever and support what i originally didnt like.

btw-i HATED the idea of pandas in this game but bought the expansion and played it the whole time. the metric there was that even with dorky ass little creature pandas, and the terrible lore (panda land in general), the overall GAME or my time was not effected by it. this is a completely separate issue however.

just my .02

[Barkloud]

I honestly think this is the most important part of all of this as silly as it seems.

Its like being on a tauren vs being on a gnome, the gnome *feels* like he's moving much faster because he's much smaller. It's the same reason I hated using the cloud serpents in mop, because their movement made me *feel* like I was moving slow.

I can definitely sympathize with that sentiment, and that is something that can be improved upon if its brought to blizzards attention.

It's funny you say that. I remember race changing my shaman from a draenai to a dwarf and feeling like I was running twice as fast.

[MasterOfNone]

You are right. I'm not at all advocating that people who don't like no flight need to quit. I'm saying that if you were thinking that others would take the bullet for you, you'd be wrong.

This is why Blizzard doesn't give in, when things like CRZ, or virtual realms or class nerfs occur. Because most of what happens in the forum is just noise. Like a bunch of babies throwing a fit.

agreed see above lol

[AzazeltheRuthless]

curious. how do you KNOW this? i am still waiting for numbers as like many others. to the best of my knowledge, there is no way to say (that the player base knows) how many subs are left. in that respect, the arguments are still valid. everything THEY wanted is working out. a true representation of your fans happiness is based upon the developers? i hardly think so.

They announced in November when they hit the 10 million subscribers mark. THey release their Fiscal Earning tomorrow which will have a sub count through January. Not saying they kept the 10 million, which I did mention. I'm going with it being in the 8-9 million range, which is still more than MoP and Cataclysm.

- - - Updated - - -

I ask out of casual interest, but for fans of no-flying what do you do on the occasions you visit old content in which flying is still enabled? Since there's no competitive disadvantage to not flying in Azeroth or Northrend and no WPvP to yammer on about I can only assume you continue only using ground mounts since that's your preference?

I wonder this because the times I go to Org or Stormwind or Dalaran or wherever outside of Draenor I see no one, not a single player over level 60, on a ground mount. If so many players are so very happy with no flying then why do they choose to do what they dislike when they leave Draenor?

If you do consistently only use ground mounts then good on you, but I'm confused why any anti-flyer would EVER use a flying mount.

All pro-flyers bring up this argument and you fail to see the point. In the end it just simply doesn't matter. Warlords feels better without flying because they designed it that way. Cataclysm, and all the other places you use it because they designed it to have flying and did things to deal with it. Timeless Isle, why doesn't flying matter, because it was designed to not have it and it works fine that way. Honestly a majority of people just want to get from Point A to Point B as quick as possible, in old world that was flying. In WoD, its taking Waygates, Portals, Flight Paths, Avianna's Feather, or using your ground mount. You can anywhere in Warlord in less than a minute and it isn't needed. Seriously fly your mount from Orgrimmar to Caverns of Time and see how enjoyable that gameplay is. Now if Warlords had flying mounts, are you going to fly your mount from your Garrison to Ashran....or just use the damn portal.

[MasterOfNone]

They announced in November when they hit the 10 million subscribers mark. THey release their Fiscal Earning tomorrow which will have a sub count through January. Not saying they kept the 10 million, which I did mention. I'm going with it being in the 8-9 million range, which is still more than MoP and Cataclysm.

ok none of this is a reflection of subs as of now or the number they lost when they announced no flight return in 6.1. it will be earnings for their fiscal year quarter which should have ended december 30th since their third quarter announcement was september 30th. my understanding is that quarterlies are the only way to see the ultimate effect of such a decision, and that is a couple months out yet. i am not finding anywhere that says they will have january numbers involved in the quarterly, seeing that january is not in that quarter...

[Barkloud]

My char just feels less heroic riding a ground mount after spending so long strapped to a dragon.

Whether you are pro flying or anti flying, you have to admit some of the most epic flying mounts just look stupid running.

[Blackcoffin]

I ask out of casual interest, but for fans of no-flying what do you do on the occasions you visit old content in which flying is still enabled? Since there's no competitive disadvantage to not flying in Azeroth or Northrend and no WPvP to yammer on about I can only assume you continue only using ground mounts since that's your preference?

I wonder this because the times I go to Org or Stormwind or Dalaran or wherever outside of Draenor I see no one, not a single player over level 60, on a ground mount. If so many players are so very happy with no flying then why do they choose to do what they dislike when they leave Draenor?

If you do consistently only use ground mounts then good on you, but I'm confused why any anti-flyer would EVER use a flying mount.

You got it all wrong, I abuse whatever tools Blizzard decides to give me. To the maximum extent. Why would I wanna stay on a ground mount? I use it for travel. Not to "wow" me when I go out and do things I set out to do.

Even then I can still acknowledge and sympathize with Blizzards arguments on the cause.

[MoanaLisa]

Well, I can see them adding flying back if subscriber numbers are shitting the bed.

They're really good about the whole knee-jerk stop the bleeding thing.

I can too and if that were the case I would have expected to see it in 6.1.

[Beazy]

I can too and if that were the case I would have expected to see it in 6.1.

They cant add Flying to WoD until Tannan is released. Blizzard has said in interviews they "HATE invisible walls".

[MoanaLisa]

They cant add Flying to WoD until Tannan is released. Blizzard has said in interviews they "HATE invisible walls".

They would learn to tolerate them quickly enough if they were losing a quarter of a million subscribers a week over flying. I don't think they are though.

[-Superman-]

They would learn to tolerate them quickly enough if they were losing a quarter of a million subscribers a week over flying. I don't think they are though.

Much like everything else they've ever swept aside until it became imperative, flight will be no different. If they were really as smart as they are greedy, they'd sell a Tome of Draenor Flight at the cash shop, thus allowing those who want it bad enough to pay for it. Kinda surprised it is not already.

[MasterOfNone]

Much like everything else they've ever swept aside until it became imperative, flight will be no different. If they were really as smart as they are greedy, they'd sell a Tome of Draenor Flight at the cash shop, thus allowing those who want it bad enough to pay for it. Kinda surprised it is not already.

yeah i can see that as well. you never know maybe they will. still wont be enough for me. i dont think its fair to pay for something i already paid for.

They would learn to tolerate them quickly enough if they were losing a quarter of a million subscribers a week over flying. I don't think they are though.

and i dont think anyone else does either. its more like a controlled bleed

[Beazy]

They would learn to tolerate them quickly enough if they were losing a quarter of a million subscribers a week over flying. I don't think they are though.

Agreed,
I think the people who are seriously pissed at no flying, like me, quit after the "no flight in 6.1" comment. So, if they lost a subscriber "today", it would prob be over lack of content.

I do not know what the hell happened @ Blizzard with WoW, but some of these new project leads need to be "let go".

[Ordinator]

You know everyone, including the anti-flyers, would buy it I've been saying for some time they could make a tidy sum off this idea since nearly every account would purchase it.

You know that shit storm that removing flying was supposed to cause but didn't? Well I can guarantee selling flying in a cash shop would be the shit storm of all shit storms.

[MasterOfNone]

Agreed,
I think the people who are seriously pissed at no flying, like me, quit after the "no flight in 6.1" comment. So, if they lost a subscriber "today", it would prob be over lack of content.

I do not know what the hell happened @ Blizzard with WoW, but some of these new project leads need to be "let go".

i assumed they already did. just a theory of mine, but i think someone got canned when the launcher a few weeks back was saying there were jobs at blizzard. /shrug