Are rest days in between working out really legit?

[Chingylol]

So I've been lifting for about three years now. I usually do something like:

Monday: Chest
Tuesday: Arms
Wednesday: Off
Thursday: Legs/Abs
Friday:Back/Abs
Saturday: Off
Sunday: Chest/Legs

My other friends who work out say I should always take a day off after one day of training. Am I pushing myself too much and not allowing my muscles time to heal enough? I've never gotten injured or anything. Will I see better results if I do something like:

Monday: Chest
Tuesday: Off
Wednesday: Arms
Thursday: Off
Friday: Back/Abs
Saturday: Off
Sunday: Legs/Abs

Basically, do I really need to take one day off for every one day I train?

[Deleted]

Neither of the too approaches are at all effective. Your structuring of workouts are simply horrible, sorry to say. In fact, you are having way too much off time, way to little frequency.

There is absolutely zero reason to have a day only for arms, you should switch to a fullbody each second day or go for a 2 split that you run either 4 or 6 times a week depending on how you feel about it. Muscle protein synthesis is only elevated to about 36 hours after working out that specific muscle, which means that any time that your not training that muscle again is practically wasted time. Both hypertrophy and strength stands to gain from high frequency workouts.

My approach which has been very effective over the last year, and scientifically backed, is doing fullbody 6 times a week when bulking and doing a upper / lower body split when cutting. I perhaps wouldn't recommend fullbody if your not used to high frequency, but a upper / lower body split is highly effective for anybody.

[Deleted]

Neither of the too approaches are at all effective. Your structuring of workouts are simply horrible, sorry to say. In fact, you are having way too much off time, way to little frequency.

There is absolutely zero reason to have a day only for arms, you should switch to a fullbody each second day or go for a 2 split that you run either 4 or 6 times a week depending on how you feel about it. Muscle protein synthesis is only elevated to about 36 hours after working out that specific muscle, which means that any time that your not training that muscle again is practically wasted time. Both hypertrophy and strength stands to gain from high frequency workouts.

My approach which has been very effective over the last year, and scientifically backed, is doing fullbody 6 times a week when bulking and doing a upper / lower body split when cutting. I perhaps wouldn't recommend fullbody if your not used to high frequency, but a upper / lower body split is highly effective for anybody.

Not exactly true. For instance heavy lifting for strength requires more rest. You can train 3 days a week and get amazing strength (5x5 stronglifts).. Strength is training 3-5 RM´s, you are not deadlifting 3-5 RM´s 3 times a week thats for sure, will at least need to switch some days to form training or assistance excersices.

I do however agree that his split is horrible. Personally I prefer 2 day push/pull splits, 4 days training a week + 1 day for swimming. So I do work A monday + thursday, work B tuesday + friday. Swimming on wednessday. Weekends off or plyometric sprint training, hill sprints, box jumps etc

[Velaniz]

Not really. For one thing, having a rest-day between every workout is seriously going to impact the number of days you workout per week, and thus the total workout volume accrued by the end of the week.

So long as you're not working the same body-part continuously (like you unfortunately seem to be doing), there's nothing wrong with it at all. Just get your sleep and eat a good amount of proteins/calories.

Your split is a bit off. You're doing chest on both Sunday and Monday. You're hitting chest two days in a row, something I'd recommend against. You're also frying your triceps three days in a row, with a day for arms on Tuesday.

[Deleted]

Pick one you like.

Fullbody 3 sessions a week (mon/wed/fri)
Arms/Chest/Shoulders/Back/Abs/Legs

or
2-split with 4 sessions a week (mon/tues/thur/friday)
Chest/Shoulders/Triceps/Abs
Back/Legs/Biceps

or
3-split with 5-6 sessions a week (mon/tues/wed/fri/sat/sun)
Back/Biceps
Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
Legs/Abs

[Deleted]

Not exactly true. For instance heavy lifting for strength requires more rest. You can train 3 days a week and get amazing strength (5x5 stronglifts).. Strength is training 3-5 RM´s, you are not deadlifting 3-5 RM´s 3 times a week thats for sure, will at least need to switch some days to form training or assistance excersices.

I do however agree that his split is horrible. Personally I prefer 2 day push/pull splits, 4 days training a week + 1 day for swimming. So I do work A monday + thursday, work B tuesday + friday. Swimming on wednessday. Weekends off or plyometric sprint training, hill sprints, box jumps etc

Depends on how you chose to structure your workout. Power and weightlifters practice their lifts almost everyday, and their primary goal is strength, of course they hardly max out everyday as their training regime includes a lot of explosive training, but no matter how you chose to go about it maxing out every workout is not a wise approach for an extended period of time.

With a high frequency workout, it is preferable to use a variyng target rep, it could be for example switching between 3-5 x 5 sets and 8x3 in compound movements and then a like 12 in assistance exercises.

As you mention 5x5 stronglifts is a wise choice too, i however, personally, don't think its all that great for experienced lifters.

[Deleted]

So I've been lifting for about three years now. I usually do something like:

Monday: Chest
Tuesday: Arms
Wednesday: Off
Thursday: Legs/Abs
Friday:Back/Abs
Saturday: Off
Sunday: Chest/Legs

My other friends who work out say I should always take a day off after one day of training. Am I pushing myself too much and not allowing my muscles time to heal enough? I've never gotten injured or anything. Will I see better results if I do something like:

Monday: Chest
Tuesday: Off
Wednesday: Arms
Thursday: Off
Friday: Back/Abs
Saturday: Off
Sunday: Legs/Abs

Basically, do I really need to take one day off for every one day I train?

no, you just need to make sure you are not training the same muscles every day. You can do different sets alternate days.

Though some breaks regularly are not a bad idea.

[Alkestis22]

i do weight lift also you can do this deltiod back chest tricep then next day rest then next day you can do same thing, it will depends on what program you make. Your friend suggestion is good and take vitamins also ^^

[Deleted]

Depends on how you chose to structure your workout. Power and weightlifters practice their lifts almost everyday, and their primary goal is strength, of course they hardly max out everyday as their training regime includes a lot of explosive training, but no matter how you chose to go about it maxing out every workout is not a wise approach for an extended period of time.

With a high frequency workout, it is preferable to use a variyng target rep, it could be for example switching between 3-5 x 5 sets and 8x3 in compound movements and then a like 12 in assistance exercises.

As you mention 5x5 stronglifts is a wise choice too, i however, personally, don't think its all that great for experienced lifters.

To be fair your original post had some solid bro science in it thats quite false.

Also 6 days full body? Is that full body every day? For bulking?

[Deleted]

To be fair your original post had some solid bro science in it thats quite false.

Please point me towards the 'solid broscience', I assure you there is none. As long as you don't mention what is wrong it is hard to further clarify.

Also 6 days full body? Is that full body every day? For bulking?

No, since there is 7 days a week it is fullbody 6 times a week, and a rest day. Yes it is for bulking, I wouldn't recommend it for a cut.

[Deleted]

My approach which has been very effective over the last year, and scientifically backed, is doing fullbody 6 times a week when bulking and doing a upper / lower body split when cutting. I perhaps wouldn't recommend fullbody if your not used to high frequency, but a upper / lower body split is highly effective for anybody.

I would love to see this science. Everywhere I read it is recommend that whenever you train a muscle group you should give it 48 hours before training it again, thus doing fullbody 6 times a week is impossible.

[tauntor]

Everyone that gives advice should have to post a shirtless pic

[Forgettable]

Everyone that gives advice should have to post a shirtless pic

This was my first thought haha.

Sadly I can't offer any advice myself, I only lift twice a week.

[Deleted]

I would love to see this science. Everywhere I read it is recommend that whenever you train a muscle group you should give it 48 hours before training it again, thus doing fullbody 6 times a week is impossible.

Your body easily adapt to increased frequency as long as you are somewhat used to resistance training, it is by no means something that is recommended for newbeginners. Sadly, there is not a whole lot of studies done on training frequency, especially 6x fullbody as week, but those that exist all show that increased frequency is favorable. One of the few studies done on 6x fullbody a week shows pretty big improvement in both strength and muscle gains over a 15 week period. If you want to read about is, its on start of page 547:

http://www.ed.ac.uk/polopoly_fs/1.94...ges%202012.pdf

Also Børge Fargerli is one of the leading scientists on this topic, he has done a post for elitefts that further explain it

http://articles.elitefts.com/trainin...h-new-science/




Exactly why it is favorable is hard to say, as it does sound counterintuitive. But consider this, studies show that untrained resistance muscle protein synthesis is elevated 36-48 hours after a workout, and peaks about 24 hours, studies also show that in 6 < months resistance trained men muscle protein synthesis only stays elevated to something as low as 16-24 hours. We of course want the MPS to peak as much as possible, and high frequency training does this, and there seems to be no physiological reason as to why the body wouldn't adapt to increased frequency. However one very important thing to note is that as frequency go up volume must go down, you can't have 3x exercises per body part in a fullbody and train everyday, that would be counterproductive.

As you mentioned 'Everywhere i read' is not a good source of information as people often tend to echo each other without actually understand the underlying mechanics.

Everyone that gives advice should have to post a shirtless pic

Yes, because we all know that the biggest guy in your gym is always the wisest.

[Aqueous]

Yes, because we all know that the biggest guy in your gym is always the wisest.

Perhaps they are.

There's more to a successful training regimen than cold science. Human beings are not machines. There's multiple other facets to consider when debating the effectiveness of a regimen: intensity, energy levels, motivation and sustainability. Giving some advice about what someone should try to move towards is fine but declaring something as doctrine is probably not the best idea.

The purpose of targetting specific groups of muscles rather than a full body workout isn't just to allow the muscles to recover, it's also to allow your general energy levels to recover and to keep the quality of workouts high. The purpose of rest days is to allow you to weave it into a normal life where you can still do things like slob out, game all day etc. rather than always needing to worry about the workout you need to do.

I would be very surprised if most people could maintain the programme you suggest at a sufficiently intense degree. The vast majority of people who work 8 hours a day etc. will likely end up feeling fatigued most of the time and motivation will go right down to the point where it just breaks. The science might be sound but the issue with these kind of research projects is that they’re often isolated, the lifters are being paid to do it (so it's basically their job) and as a consequence they don’t take into account other aspects of life that the normal person needs to account for.

Such a regimen is probably great for a budding/pro bodybuilder but a normal guy looking to get stacked? I reckon probably 1% of them will sustain it, the rest will start slipping over time and that 6 days will become 5...then possibly 4...then maybe even less. And that’s not even taking into account the quality of the lifting and the possibility of injuries.

If there’s a guy in the gym who is stacked it suggests that whatever he is doing is working for him – and that’s the key point. Different individuals have different lives, different energy levels, different sleep patterns etc. so the most important thing is to find a workout regime that ticks enough boxes and works for you . In short, it’s a balance: you’ve got motivation/sustainability on one side of the see-saw and results on the other side, if you tip it too much one way you either get little/no results or you won’t stick with it.

So going back to the biggest guy in your gym: the goal is to bulk up, if someone has managed to do that it means it’s working. You can quote all the science you want to counter it but the results are there to see.

On the other hand though I can agree certainly that the “Arms” workout is a waste of a day

OP: If you’re bulking you want to be hitting as much of your body as you can so compounds are what you want to be doing. Doing just “Arms” is probably something like 10% or less of your body’s total muscle mass – that’s such a small area of your body really. Even though it technically accounts for multiple muscle groups I would almost view an “Arms” workout as an isolation workout…and you don’t really want to be doing isolation workouts to bulk, rather they’re something to do to “sculpt” or “perfect” your physique once you’ve bulked up quite a bit.

For now, focus on doing compounds at a high intensity/weight. Don’t enforce rest periods but don’t overdo it either or you risk losing motivation – if you need to rest and you feel like you’re not lifting well then rest. If you don’t lift properly you won’t get much benefit from the exercise any way AND you risk injury. So how often should that be? That’s up to you to find out, it really is.

Try to push yourself until you begin to the reach the point where you’re feeling drained or like you can’t be bothered. If you’re getting to the point where certain days you feel far too tired to workout or you’re being lazy more often than before it’s often time to lower the workload a little as you’ve reached your limit. It’s a tentative balance between letting yourself slip and burning yourself out.

And what’s more it’s not consistent. There will be times where you feel fine working out 5-6 times a week even but conversely there will be times where you struggle to do it 3 times. Seasonal changes can account for a lot as well and it’s sometimes a good idea to align your bulking and cutting cycles with the seasons in my experience. During Winter, we are naturally inclined to eat more to store more reserve energy which aligns nicely with bulking. Summer, we don’t feel the need to eat as much, we feel more alert and active…good time for cutting.

[Spectral]

Everyone that gives advice should have to post a shirtless pic

This is silly. As a runner, I'd much rather receive advice from a Salazar (a renowned coach) or a biomechanical specialist than Geoffrey Mutai (a champion marathoner). There's probably going to be some overlap between expertise and ability, but not necessarily all that much. Having the physical ability and committment to be great at something is quite different from just being knowledgeable about it.

If someone's not credentialed, yeah, I suppose I'm disinclined to listen to them if their appearance doesn't stack up, but credentials and expertise are more important than appearance.

[Deleted]

Perhaps they are.

There's more to a successful training regimen than cold science. Human beings are not machines. There's multiple other facets to consider when debating the effectiveness of a regimen: intensity, energy levels, motivation and sustainability. Giving some advice about what someone should try to move towards is fine but declaring something as doctrine is probably not the best idea.

The purpose of targetting specific groups of muscles rather than a full body workout isn't just to allow the muscles to recover, it's also to allow your general energy levels to recover and to keep the quality of workouts high. The purpose of rest days is to allow you to weave it into a normal life where you can still do things like slob out, game all day etc. rather than always needing to worry about the workout you need to do.

I would be very surprised if most people could maintain the programme you suggest at a sufficiently intense degree. The vast majority of people who work 8 hours a day etc. will likely end up feeling fatigued most of the time and motivation will go right down to the point where it just breaks. The science might be sound but the issue with these kind of research projects is that they’re often isolated, the lifters are being paid to do it (so it's basically their job) and as a consequence they don’t take into account other aspects of life that the normal person needs to account for.

I believe I made myself clear in the fact that such a high frequency is not for everybody, but anyone can adjust. The thing is though, about recovery, energy, time and all that you mention is you need to consider most people already have a workout plan that involves hitting the gym 5-6 times a week in some high split fashion. If you get used to a high frequency, recovery and energy levels will not halt, you should/will by no means feel more burned out by doing a fullbody workout than some specific muscle split.

When doing a high split such as OP suggested, volume needs to be high to make up for the low frequency. This results in workouts that take 1-1½ hours a day, high frequency fullbody need not to take anymore than 45-60minutes. High volume also sacrifices intensity to a certain degree. This is where fullbody excels as it allows you to chose 1 great excersise per body part and let you perform it with high intensity which allows for great progress. Many people feel the need to totally burn out their muscle each workout, but performing 4 sets of high intensity bench press is in most cases much more effective than 12-16 sets of varying chest exercises and many people tend to do. There is a certain point of diminishing returns, and this kicks in much faster than many would believe.

Short point is: High frequency fullbody is probrably less time consuming than high split programs. Intensity can be kept high, and the increased frequency makes up for the lowered volume. Last thing that is also is important is that, skipping a day becomes less important as it doesn't delay certain muscle groups from being hit.

Such a regimen is probably great for a budding/pro bodybuilder but a normal guy looking to get stacked? I reckon probably 1% of them will sustain it, the rest will start slipping over time and that 6 days will become 5...then possibly 4...then maybe even less. And that’s not even taking into account the quality of the lifting and the possibility of injuries.

If there’s a guy in the gym who is stacked it suggests that whatever he is doing is working for him – and that’s the key point. Different individuals have different lives, different energy levels, different sleep patterns etc. so the most important thing is to find a workout regime that ticks enough boxes and works for you . In short, it’s a balance: you’ve got motivation/sustainability on one side of the see-saw and results on the other side, if you tip it too much one way you either get little/no results or you won’t stick with it.

So going back to the biggest guy in your gym: the goal is to bulk up, if someone has managed to do that it means it’s working. You can quote all the science you want to counter it but the results are there to see.

I will reiterate my point from above, the OP already suggests a training regimen that includes 5 weekly workouts. If he can't keep up with the 5 days a week, a split program such as his makes even less sense since he would have to skip body parts or delay hitting the muscles again. A fullbody is even greater for those who have problems with consistency as it still allows for a decent frequency even at only 2-3 times a week. Still a higher frequency than a 5 split even at 2 workouts a week, and increased volume is for alot of people not needed nor that beneficial if at all.

Of couse different peoples have different lives, but in the end it makes little to no difference. Have a bad sleeping pattern? Well your going to have worse results regardless. Tired after work? Well you might struggle with your leg days or a fullbody no matter what then. Tight on time? Well your choice 45 minutes fullbody or 1½hour chest and arms workout.

Anyway after it all we are kinda missing the point with this discussion, he asks if rest days are neccesary, and they are not to the degree that OP mentions, I would suggest a rest day if you feel like it or like once a week or however you structure your workout. Rest days are NOT needed every second day by any means, especially in a high split regimen.

[Aqueous]

Just one thing - 5 days a week split is easier than 5 days full. Again, full-body workouts are far more draining. Like you say, you're skipping body parts when doing split workouts...which is precisely why it's less draining since your body is only rebuilding select muscle groups at any one time and virtually your entire body.

Also, the relevance of energy levels is that a split workout doesn't require as much energy as a full-body. As an example, you could quite easily bump biceps for an hour (not saying it would be qualitative) and barely break a sweat but half an hour of hang clean and you'll be knackered.

I'd also be surprised if most people who stick with a regime long-term are jumping into the gym 5-6 days a week unless they spend half their time gabbing or aren't hitting the weights with intensity.

Let me put this another way. Let's say you workout 4 times a week: would it be better to do 4 days of full-body or different splits on each day that add up to 1 full-body over 4 days (albeit with more reps/sets over those 4 days)?

[Deleted]

Just one thing - 5 days a week split is easier than 5 days full. Again, full-body workouts are far more draining. Like you say, you're skipping body parts when doing split workouts...which is precisely why it's less draining since your body is only rebuilding select muscle groups at any one time and virtually your entire body.

Also, the relevance of energy levels is that a split workout doesn't require as much energy as a full-body. As an example, you could quite easily bump biceps for an hour (not saying it would be qualitative) and barely break a sweat but half an hour of hang clean and you'll be knackered.

I'd also be surprised if most people who stick with a regime long-term are jumping into the gym 5-6 days a week unless they spend half their time gabbing or aren't hitting the weights with intensity.

Let me put this another way. Let's say you workout 4 times a week: would it be better to do 4 days of full-body or different splits on each day that add up to 1 full-body over 4 days (albeit with more reps/sets over those 4 days)?

That is completely anecdotal assumptions you make. You preach individuality in your last post, yet you assume that everyone gets more worn out of a fullbody? From my own experience, and those i know who follow same training protocol we can all safely say that this does not tax our recovery anymore than a higher split protocol. Beside as mentioned previously, total workload is far less in a fullbody per day which in theory makes recovery easier.

Your talking about intensity, I think you fail to understand how a fullbody allows for higher intensity than a split. If you have 4 chest exercises, it is far harder to get proper intensity than doing a single exercise, increased volume decreases intensity. It is, as said earlier, in most cases far more beneficial to focus on 3-5 quality sets of a single exercise than 12-16 mediocre sets of several exercises.

I understand that it can be a hard concept to grasp, but the most important thing to note when doing this high frequency fullbody is how low of a volume you need which is why it isn't that taxing on recovery and energy levels at all. You can by no means start this protocol with the mindset that you need to get your muscles burned out and uber pumped each workout, that is the road to failure, but 4 sets of a quality exercise with a few reps to go before failure each exercise is all that it takes.

It is easy to judge this as something it is not when you haven't tried it yourself and believe in what the mainstream tells you, however scientifically, therotically and practically high frequency all yields benefits compared to high splits. It is less taxing than a high split at equal effort, it is less time consuming than a high split, it is not as detrimental to miss a day and you make it near impossible to do the classic 'ugh its leg day lets just skip today'.

[Deleted]

Labze, you should probably mention that your 6 day fullbody program is actually a 3 day fullbody program stretched onto 6 days. It's an increasing concept for sure, heck I might even try it once i start bulking after the summer.