Death Knight PVP

[Zuntur]

Whats your opinion on which spec is best for DK pvp ? I'm just curious what other people think. I use Frost atm and feel it does pretty good damage but iv met a lot of other people who pvp on DKs say that unholy is the better. Then of course people say blood for the extra health, but im talking about dps.

Iv tried unholy but don't really get how the rotation goes so for me its not fully effective but like I said I'm curious what other people think about it.

(Also i feel this may be in the wrong area so if it is i do apologize)

[quitefrankly]

If you wish to be competitive or have some chance at higher ratings in RBGs or Arenas, the only viable spec is Unholy. The damage output is tremendously higher than frost and a lot more consistent. Frost used to have higher burst, but nowadays the Gargoyle + Timmy + UH damage is superior.

You should really give UH a shot

[apepi]

Both Frost and Unholy have a place. Frost is a bit more warrior like in damage, they have a good amount of burst and good steady damage and youe are able to kill things. As Unholy you do much more damage but most is just aoe damage.

Go frost in 2's and heavy burst comps in 3s and go unholy for cleavishcomps. In rbgs go frost on flag maps and Unholy on domination maps.

[Drenan]

In any pvp situation that I can think of frost is not better than unholy.

[Tylaeus]

I've found that Unholy is better for all Arena situations simply because of necrotics, and lichborne healing is more of a benefit to you than it is in frost. Also Frost cannot efficiently use blood presence like Unholy can, because Unholy DKs don't rely on unholy presence for efficient RP spending like Frost dks do.

[apepi]

I've found that Unholy is better for all Arena situations simply because of necrotics, and lichborne healing is more of a benefit to you than it is in frost. Also Frost cannot efficiently use blood presence like Unholy can, because Unholy DKs don't rely on unholy presence for efficient RP spending like Frost dks do.

yes but Frost does feel stronger in frost presence than unholy in in unholy presence. So it is kinda worth he trade off.

[pkm]

yes but Frost does feel stronger in frost presence than unholy in in unholy presence. So it is kinda worth he trade off.

What do you mean "feel"...

I rarely see frost DKs in blood pres unless there is a switch coming or in RBGs to defend flags or whatever. But unholy can stay for almost the whole duration of a battle with very little trade off.

[Hand Banana]

yes but Frost does feel stronger in frost presence than unholy in in unholy presence. So it is kinda worth he trade off.

What? Unholy presence is extremely strong for unholy, between 20% haste and 15% move speed and proccing free death coils its actually a better presence for UH than frost is for frost (frost has the cc reduc which is maybe why it "feels" stronger).

Seriously, a fully geared UH dk in UH presence has the highest damage in arenas bar none. Its like not even possible to match him. Games where I am not focused and get to sit in UH presence most of the game I often double the entire other teams damage. Since I run dk/ele/hpally I am often not the kill target and have had games with dmg charts that look like this: Me: 15mil, other team combined: 9mil. The fact that you never rune-starve while in unholy pres is why its so strong. Plus with free DC's I get necrotics much much faster.

At OP: Play unholy. You have crazy high pressure and do much better while being kited/rooted which you will be most of the time. You also get more utility with pet abilities. Frost is good for rushdown comps like frost/enh/hpally and stuff like that, but UH is alot stronger overall.

[Stormspellz]

yes but Frost does feel stronger in frost presence than unholy in in unholy presence. So it is kinda worth he trade off.

that would be a case of observation biased.

[apepi]

What? Unholy presence is extremely strong for unholy, between 20% haste and 15% move speed and proccing free death coils its actually a better presence for UH than frost is for frost (frost has the cc reduc which is maybe why it "feels" stronger).

Seriously, a fully geared UH dk in UH presence has the highest damage in arenas bar none. Its like not even possible to match him. Games where I am not focused and get to sit in UH presence most of the game I often double the entire other teams damage. Since I run dk/ele/hpally I am often not the kill target and have had games with dmg charts that look like this: Me: 15mil, other team combined: 9mil. The fact that you never rune-starve while in unholy pres is why its so strong. Plus with free DC's I get necrotics much much faster.

At OP: Play unholy. You have crazy high pressure and do much better while being kited/rooted which you will be most of the time. You also get more utility with pet abilities. Frost is good for rushdown comps like frost/enh/hpally and stuff like that, but UH is alot stronger overall.

There is a difference from damage and being able to kill people. Some of it overlaps but not always. Most of unholy is aoe damage, though it does make a healer go oom. Frost just has greater single target pressure.

Like I said, they both have their own places, one is not better than the other, but they can be better at different things.

[gestapo]

Gotta say I really like the way UH is designed. It's my fav DK spec since the class was introduced in WOTLK and i really enjoy the affliction-lock style gameplay and just applying massive constant pressure and forcing mistakes. Unholy can be terrible in the hands of a mediocre player or terrifying in the hands of a skilled player. I'm not that great at it but it's insane what some skilled DK's can pull off. Love the spec.

[Deleted]

I actually prefer 2h frost. But I play burst comp in Arena and am usually TC/healer killer in RBG. Frost has that on demand burst to get the target down.. Sure UH does a lot of dam but most is just aoe dam.

Didn´t know that UH does better than frost in BP now though. Frost does insanely well in BP and I have yet to be outdamaged by a UH... But I haven´t really looked into UH in a while. Maybe I should give it a go again. Ghoul still buggy as hell to control?

[Rgthreex]

I actually prefer 2h frost. But I play burst comp in Arena and am usually TC/healer killer in RBG. Frost has that on demand burst to get the target down.. Sure UH does a lot of dam but most is just aoe dam.

Didn´t know that UH does better than frost in BP now though. Frost does insanely well in BP and I have yet to be outdamaged by a UH... But I haven´t really looked into UH in a while. Maybe I should give it a go again. Ghoul still buggy as hell to control?

It's not even worth switching to blood presence as frost you lose to much damage ontop of being RP starved, don't forget you lose all your RP when you switch Presences unless glyphed I think than it's only 70%

[quitefrankly]

I have no idea where you people get this idea that frost has better singe target pressure than UH.

Here, have a look at this OP:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/leaderboards/3v3

Filter it with frost DKs (hint: 0)

edit: do the same with 2v2... that should give you a better idea of "single target" pressure.

[Skarssen]

Didn´t know that UH does better than frost in BP now though. Frost does insanely well in BP and I have yet to be outdamaged by a UH...

Frost is absolute shit in BP. Your resources are so limited, you will get off a couple of obliterates, or a couple of CoI/necrotics and then you sit there rune and RP starved while the enemy pounds you do death and you can't do ANYTHING about it. Frost loses WAY more damage from sitting in BP than unholy does (though it certainly loses some), and the damage loss is exacerbated if frost tries to use conversion. An unholy DK in BP with conversion rolling gains a lot of survivability and loses only a bit of damage, where I frost DK in BP with conversion loses virtually all damage to gain an inferior amount of survivability. The only thing frost does better than unholy is more frequent burst windows (1min), where unholy can burst more than frost but has a much longer CD period. That said unholy is vastly superior against other melee in comparison to frost. I mean, unholy will beat a warrior 1vs1 but frost will be wrecked by arms.

IMO unholy is still worse than a rogue, feral, WW, or warrior, but it is much, much better than frost for virtually every form of PVP except for bursting down random, low skill targets in regular BGs.

[Deleted]

How uh damage is "aoe"?

[Skarssen]

How uh damage is "aoe"?

Diseases. Unholy pressure comes from AIDS constantly ticking on everything and necrotic stacks on a kill target making it tough for a healer to keep up.

[Tyrean]

I actually think that DK damage is a bit of an overstatement. This is coming from a DK btw. You guys have to remember that yes, you have two diseases on you ticking away, but that is not the real pressure. The real pressure comes from positioning, CC, and timing necrotic stacks. I would wager that a good DK can do just as much pressure with diseases on only one target.

You guys are thinking of the total damage done at the end of a match. That includes all the spread damage to pets, players that hover at 90% health, etc. With all the warlocks, hunters, mages around there are lots of targets that are ticking away for damage for not a whole lot of pressure. Any DK can spread diseases and look like he is doing insane damage. Good DKs know how to pressure with interrupts, CC, necrotic stacks and positioning.

[Skarssen]

Which is why most DK damage is worthless except to top damage charts in random BGs and low-skill 3's. Only when paired with necrotic stacks on a kill target does it cause healers to fall behind, but you are right that ranged classes can do it better.

[Mitak]

UH and frost play differently as a whole. UH does not kill by damage alone, UH kills by denying healing and applying pressure at the same time. UH is best used in 3v3s where battles take longer and you can pressure the enemy's healer, hoping that he or his team will make a mistake which will cost them their game.
Frost on the other hand is brute damage. It relies on short burst windows in order to kill someone or at least to put a huge pressure in that window. The problem is that most good teams know what Frost does so they counter the first burst relatively easy after which they kill the DK so a second burst is highly unlikely.

Bottom line if you want to be competitive in arenas better master UH, frost is not a good spec high end PVP.