[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[JDL49]

<snip>

Talking of The Marvels - If you're a big Marvel/Disney fan anyway you probably have Disney+. So unless you're REALLY excited about needing to see it now, you might as well just wait a month or two and you whole family can watch it there for no additional cost.

Actually Disney had been mostly moving the other way lately. Of the 6 major releases that have completed their runs; 4 released after 3 months, 1 released after 4 months, and 1 released after 2 months, The shortest was seasonal and probably shouldn't be counted. So figure at least 3 months maybe 4.

[Endus]

And Endus, you were one person I was SURE would like the new Marvel stuff. It is right up your alley. Though I guess I always assumed you were much younger.

I mean, I like them fine, mostly. It's not like I'm arguing these are the bestest movies ever made or something. There's definitely a lot of movies I like more. They're not as godawful as some of the blockbuster schlock out like, like Fast and Furious of whatever the fuck the Transformers franchise has morphed into lately. Except Bumblebee. That movie was legitimately good.

[RobertoCarlos]

I'm also over 45. I'm not hitting theaters, but that's not a Marvel thing, I haven't been to heaters since 2019, pre-covid. The characters coming out now are more to my taste than the last crop; She-hulk and Moon Knight have been comics favorites of mine for ages. Shang Chi is great and Simu Liu is awesome. Even the later characters from before P4, Dr. Strange and Spider-man and Wanda and Ant-man, I prefer over Iron Man and Thor and Cap. Not that those characters weren't done really well by fantastic actors, they're just not what draws me.

Why do I keep enjoying it? Because the "bad" ones are still generally better than the "good" ones from other big action franchises, life Fast and Furious or Mission Impossible, to me. I don't know expect every film to be a 10/10, I'm fine if it's just a 7. Eternals was a 5, to me, but mostly for inconsistent world building and direction: that film was salvageable.

It's the MCU. It's not art. It's blockbuster action. I compare it to other films in that category.

She hulk TV show was nothing like the comic book character. It wasn't even the same style with deadpool already filing that space so how anyone can claim to be a she hulk comic fan AND a TV show fan.... I ain't buying what your selling

[Endus]

She hulk TV show was nothing like the comic book character. It wasn't even the same style with deadpool already filing that space so how anyone can claim to be a she hulk comic fan AND a TV show fan.... I ain't buying what your selling

I don't believe you've ever read a She-Hulk comic, if you're going to make this claim. It's ripped straight out of the Single Green Female run, with a few plot tweaks here and there to mix things up. Going out clubbing and having strange hookups with heroes and mugging to the camera in 4th wall breaks is entirely in-character for Jen/She-Hulk.

And Jennifer Walters was breaking the 4th wall in comics before Deadpool even existed as a character. He stole that schtick from her.

[RobertoCarlos]

I don't believe you've ever read a She-Hulk comic, if you're going to make this claim. It's ripped straight out of the Single Green Female run, with a few plot tweaks here and there to mix things up. Going out clubbing and having strange hookups with heroes and mugging to the camera in 4th wall breaks is entirely in-character for Jen/She-Hulk.

And Jennifer Walters was breaking the 4th wall in comics before Deadpool even existed as a character. He stole that schtick from her.

Daredevil having a walk of shame because get the joke, normally it's woman being slut shamed! Hah! Isn't "strange hook ups with heroes". It was mostly over the top LA dudes because there was no male writers for the show (so sexist omg) so we only got female woman who date in LA as far as life experience goes

[Endus]

Daredevil having a walk of shame because get the joke, normally it's woman being slut shamed! Haha! Isn't "strange hook ups with heroes".

Dude didn't look "ashamed" at all. He's smiling the whole time. Maybe don't try and shame people for healthy sex lives?

It was mostly over the top LA dudes because there was no male writers for the show (so sexist omg) so we only got female woman who date in LA as far as life experience goes

All you're really saying here is a whine that there were no male writers.

That's not an argument. That's an agenda.

Edit: It's also just objectively false. Two of the writers were men.

[RobertoCarlos]

Dude didn't look "ashamed" at all. He's smiling the whole time. Maybe don't try and shame people for healthy sex lives?



All you're really saying here is a whine that there were no male writers.

That's not an argument. That's an agenda.

Edit: It's also just objectively false. Two of the writers were men.

Jessica Gao, Dana Schwartz, Melissa Hunter are all female. They may Identify as male I'm not sure I havent gone that far into their personal lives. But scientifically speaking the lead writers are female. My only agenda is good story telling that doesnt really give two hoots about someones gentials.

[Endus]

Jessica Gao, Dana Schwartz, Melissa Hunter are all female. They may Identify as male I'm not sure I havent gone that far into their personal lives. But scientifically speaking the lead writers are female. My only agenda is good story telling that doesnt really give two hoots about someones gentials.

Oh, lead writers, there's the goalpost shift.

If "good storytelling" was what you cared about and you don't care about their gender, you never would have flagged an all-female writing cast as a problem. Even if you were objectively wrong on that claim.

You're just lying to my face at this point.

[MCMLXXXII]

Jessica Gao, Dana Schwartz, Melissa Hunter are all female. They may Identify as male I'm not sure I havent gone that far into their personal lives. But scientifically speaking the lead writers are female. My only agenda is good story telling that doesnt really give two hoots about someones gentials.

Zeb Wells? Cody Ziglar?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

She hulk TV show was nothing like the comic book character. It wasn't even the same style with deadpool already filing that space so how anyone can claim to be a she hulk comic fan AND a TV show fan.... I ain't buying what your selling

She bulk breaking the 4th wall.


She hulk sleeping around.


She hulk having body image issues (other way round)

How she hulk deals with her being turned into a pinup comic.



Any one saying the show isn’t like the comics doesn’t read She Hulk comics.

[Egomaniac]

Saw The Marvels tonight. It was fun. Not especially great...but fun. I have a few take-aways:

a) A lot of the time it felt less like an MCU movie and more like a Dr. Who Special.

b) It probably would have been better as a TV Mini-Series than a movie.

c) People that are complaining about "needing" to watch two Disney+ shows can relax. Everything you need to know about Monica and Kamala is explained in just a few lines of dialogue.

d) Iman Vellani is a god damn delight.

[Syegfryed]

She hulk TV show was nothing like the comic book character. It wasn't even the same style with deadpool already filing that space so how anyone can claim to be a she hulk comic fan AND a TV show fan.... I ain't buying what your selling

After the show i asked many people to give she-hulk hq runs that were like the show, because accord to some people "it was straight out of the HQ", and no one give any, and the ones they give had fucking nothing to do with it, they didn't got nothing right despite "she is green, sleeps around and break the fourth wall", i obviously didn't read every single issue, but nothing reminded me of the show, at all.

All though im ok cause those hqs were good, but i still prefer the first run

[Endus]

After the show i asked many people to give she-hulk hq runs that were like the show, because accord to some people "it was straight out of the HQ", and no one give any

Then you weren't asking anyone who knows anything about the character. The basic plot is straight from Single Green Female, getting fired, re-hired to head a superhero law division, doing cases to protect supervillains, straight out of that run.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

After the show i asked many people to give she-hulk hq runs that were like the show, because accord to some people "it was straight out of the HQ", and no one give any, and the ones they give had fucking nothing to do with it, they didn't got nothing right despite "she is green, sleeps around and break the fourth wall", i obviously didn't read every single issue, but nothing reminded me of the show, at all.

All though im ok cause those hqs were good, but i still prefer the first run

Just a quick glance at the run Endus mentioned.

Sleeping with people as she hulk and not wanting Jen

Getting a mistrial because of superheroing and getting fire, and smashing a copyier.

getting approached for the new super hero division job.

and the getting instant drunk joke.

Don't have time to go through the rest of the series are the moment but the likeness is pretty obvious.

[rhorle]

they didn't got nothing right despite "she is green, sleeps around and break the fourth wall", i obviously didn't read every single issue, but nothing reminded me of the show, at all.

You must have forgot as you once said the show was really accurate with comics and books in the original She-Hulk thread.

The show is being rly accurate with the comics and previous books, that rly pleases me.

[Syegfryed]

Then you weren't asking anyone who knows anything about the character. The basic plot is straight from Single Green Female, getting fired, re-hired to head a superhero law division, doing cases to protect supervillains, straight out of that run.

I ask here, and i remember quite well that i asked you too, this is the first time you are talking about this run

Just a quick glance at the run Endus mentioned.

Sleeping with people as she hulk and not wanting Jen

Getting a mistrial because of superheroing and getting fire, and smashing a copyier.

getting approached for the new super hero division job.

and the getting instant drunk joke.

Don't have time to go through the rest of the series are the moment but the likeness is pretty obvious.

Still seem quite different, with very different context though, the reason she get fired? that was funny and not in the show.

Is like getting this:


And saying love and thunder was very similar because the likeness of the pics are pretty obvious.

- - - Updated - - -

You must have forgot as you once said the show was really accurate with comics and books in the original She-Hulk thread.

Yeah, how naive and innocent of me, the time i only saw the first episode, which still is good to me, but it went downhill pretty fast.

I said the idea of getting infected by the blood made sense and was accurate with previous shenanigans, cause in the 2008 movie Leader was created that way, and stills tand by it.

[Endus]

I ask here, and i remember quite well that i asked you too, this is the first time you are talking about this run

Really?

She looks like she stepped right off the comic page. They're using Dan Slott's run as inspiration, pretty clearly,

Most of what people complained about, as you did here, was pretty closely adapted from the Single Green Female arc in the comics, which is widely considered one of her best.

Oh wait, that's just in this thread. What about the She-Hulk thread?

See, this is just objectively false.

She's exactly like she was in the Dan Slott run of She-Hulk.

I enjoy She-Hulk as a character, and my favorite run in the comics was the Dan Slott run they're drawing major inspiration from here.

Why are you still here? The show's about as perfect a translation as you could hope for of Dan Slott's run from 2004, which is widely considered one of her best runs.

That isn't even remotely all of the times I've mentioned Slott's run and how closely the show was built around it, conceptually, just in this thread. They may not have been direct responses to you, but that's on you for not reading the thread.

Direct response to you, doing then what I'm doing again here, pointing out how many times I've made this specific reference.

Lying right to my face, about what I've said about the show, no less. That you're well aware of, because this is not the first time you've done this.

I really shouldn't have to explain that the Dan Slott run is the Single Green Female run, because any cursory Google would've told you that.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Still seem quite different, with very different context though, the reason she get fired? that was funny and not in the show.

Is like getting this:


And saying love and thunder was very similar because the likeness of the pics are pretty obvious.

I mean that’s the MCU in a nut shell there is almost always different context and reasons in every thing they do but they keep the same or similar story.

And no a single screen grab matching a picture isn’t at all the same as similar story structures, jokes, and how the characters feel/react to thing like waking up next to Jen instead of she hulk.

[Fencers]

Captain America reshoots are going to be expensive. Moving the date was a stop-gap on costs but I doubt it's locked in. This is gonna be costly.

Just as I said:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo...ls-1235645119/

Marvel Studios Taking Stock of Strategy Amid ‘The Marvels’ Meltdown


The anything-but-marvelous performance of The Marvels is a moment of reckoning for Marvel Studios, the production house that has been the superhero of the box office for much of the past 15 years since Iron Man burst onto the scene in 2008.

Over the Nov. 10-12 weekend, The Marvels debuted to $46.1 million in North America, the worst opening in the history of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which has raked in more than $30 billion in global movie ticket sales. The 33rd MCU installment was battered by withering audience exit scores and a ho-hum B CinemaScore.

But it wasn’t the first warning sign that something was amiss within Marvel in terms of quality control as Feige’s team went into overdrive producing shows for streaming; features Eternals and Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantamania were also slapped with B CinemaScore, while audiences began complaining about keeping up with an increasing number of shows on Disney+ to understand the overarching MCU story.

Behind the scenes, Marvel Studios and Disney were well aware The Marvels was in trouble before it hit the big screen. There was also a recognition that Feige and his team needed time to take a stock of their theatrical tentpoles, sources tell The Hollywood Reporter. On Nov. 8, Bob Iger said during on an earnings call that Disney’s movie empire has “lost focus” because of an emphasis on quantity over quality in the rush to feed Disney+ under the Bob Chapek regime (though it was Iger himself who initiated this push before Chapek’s reign.) Feige and his team felt this mandate keenly, to detriment of Marvel’s movies, sources say.

A day later, Marvel and Disney revealed they were scaling back the number of superhero films they will release in 2024 from three to one. That news was made at the end of the SAG-AFTRA strike, and while the work stoppage, which shut down production on Deadpool 3, is certainly part of the reason for some of the date changes, it wasn’t the only one, sources say.

Shawn Levy and Ryan Reynolds’ Deadpool 3 will be Marvel and Disney’s sole superhero offering in 2024, and will now open on July 26 instead of May 3. The high-profile threequel, which co-stars Hugh Jackman as Wolverine, is the first Deadpool to be released by Disney since it acquired 20th Century Fox and is also the first R-rated pic to be released by Marvel Studios. The marquee title is described as a multi-verse spanning feature that will set the stage for Marvel’s upcoming Avengers movies.

Marvel Studios’ Captain America: New World Order, which was previously set to hit theaters on July 26, has been delayed nine months to Feb. 14, 2025, which will give the studio time to shoot additional material. Marvel’s anti-hero centric movie Thunderbolts, starring Florence Pugh and Sebastian Stan, is moving from Dec. 20, 2024, to July 25, 2025.

Among 2025 titles, Blade, starring Mahershala Ali, has been pushed back nine months, moving its release date from Feb. 14, 2025 to Nov. 7, 2025. Both Blade and Thunderbolts were planning on going into production this past summer but did not have scripts that were ready in time so were shut down amid the writers strike in May. The release date changes announced Nov. 9 mean that Marvel has four superhero pics set for 2025 when including the Fantastic Four reboot, set for release on May 2 (like Deadpool, Fantastic Four arrived from 20th Century), but that could change.

Rather than being a straight-up sequel to the billion-dollar blockbuster Captain Marvel, The Marvels is something of a mashup. In the movie, Larson is joined by Iman Vellani, the breakout star of the Disney+ series Ms. Marvel, as well as WandaVision‘s Teyonah Parris as the grown-up version of Captain Marvel character Monica Rambeau. Mixing and matching characters for sequels is a game plan Marvel has used in the past on films like Captain America: Civil War, which featured nearly every Marvel character imaginable, but to much different results, grossing $1.15 billion in 2016.

“Why not simply make Captain Marvel 2? Why produce The Marvels when your audience identified, empathized, and even hero-identified with Brie Larson’s character? More importantly, why offer people similar or the same characters and stories that are on Disney+ if you expect them to go to a theater together? Disney/Marvel diluted their product,” says one film producer. “Of course, a picture works or fails for other reasons too, but losing so much value picture-over-picture is rare and hard to do.”

Captain Marvel debuted to $153.4 million in North America on its way to earning a massive $1.13 billion worldwide, not adjusted for inflation. To be sure that movie had a clear advantage in that it was teased in the post-credit scene of 2018’s Avengers: Infinity War, while its titular star was a player in 2019’s Avengers: Endgame (it was released between the two Marvel mega-blockbusters).

Until now, rival DC was the superhero studio that endured the biggest ups and downs, with a good number of its films opening to $50 million or less (in comparison, many MCU releases started with $100 million or more domestically). This summer, DC’s The Flash debuted to a dismal $55 million domestically on its way to topping out at a paltry $270.6 million globally.

Notes Comscore box office analyst Paul Dergarabedian, “the uneven performance of all superhero films in recent years should be a wakeup call in terms of how these films are conceived executed and marketed moving forward.”

Aaron Couch contributed to this story.

[InfiniteCharger]

I don't believe you've ever read a She-Hulk comic, if you're going to make this claim. It's ripped straight out of the Single Green Female run, with a few plot tweaks here and there to mix things up. Going out clubbing and having strange hookups with heroes and mugging to the camera in 4th wall breaks is entirely in-character for Jen/She-Hulk.

And Jennifer Walters was breaking the 4th wall in comics before Deadpool even existed as a character. He stole that schtick from her.

The problem is the Single Green Female run is not the one that made She Hulk popular. In fact that series signaled the end of She Hulk as a comic.
She Hulk was at the heights of popularity in the 80s and 90s under John Byrne and when older comics folks think of She-Hulk, that is their reference.

At the conclusion of the first Secret Wars miniseries, She-Hulk joins the Fantastic Four (Fantastic Four #265 (April 1984)). During She-Hulk's tenure with the Fantastic Four, she appeared in Marvel Graphic Novel #16: The Aladdin Effect, Marvel Graphic Novel No. 17: Revenge of the Living Monolith, and Marvel Graphic Novel #18: The Sensational She-Hulk. All three graphic novels appeared in 1985. The last, #18, appearing in November 1985, was written and illustrated by then-Fantastic Four writer/artist John Byrne.

She-Hulk regained a solo series in 1989, The Sensational She-Hulk (maintaining the 1985 graphic novel's title). The Sensational She-Hulk ran for 60 issues. Issues #1–8, 31–46, and 48–50 were written and drawn by Byrne. Byrne's She-Hulk stories satirized comic books and introduced She-Hulk's awareness that she is a comic book character. Two issues tested the limits of the Comics Code: #34 makes reference to the 1991 Vanity Fair cover in which actress Demi Moore appeared nude and pregnant (She-Hulk's version has her holding a green beach ball to imitate Moore's pregnancy). In issue #40, She-Hulk is depicted jumping rope (apparently) in the nude, with her breasts and genital area covered by blur lines; the cover of the same issue shows her covering herself with a form sporting the lines "Approved [...] Comics Code". Other writers to contribute to this series include Steve Gerber (#10, 11 and 13–23), Simon Furman, and Peter David.

During The Sensational She-Hulk, the character continued making numerous guest appearances. In 1990, She-Hulk appeared in the two-issue limited series She-Hulk: Ceremony, adapted from a Dwayne McDuffie pitch for a cancelled She-Hulk romantic comedy ongoing series.

The Sensational She-Hulk ran until issue #60 (February 1994), making it the longest-running solo title of any Marvel superheroine up to that point. After the cancellation of She-Hulk's second solo series, she continued making backup, one-shot, and team appearances in Fantastic Force (starting with issue #13 in November 1995), the 1996 miniseries Doc Samson #1–4 (January–April 1996), Heroes for Hire #8–19 (February 1998 through the series finale in January 1999), and The Avengers. Her next major appearance was in the May 2002 one-shot titled Thing and She-Hulk: The Long Night.

In May 2004, She-Hulk was given a new title and launched in a wave of six new Marvel books. Despite favorable critical notices, the new series could not escape the low sales numbers that the titles received from their initial cluster-style launch.[citation needed] Marvel brought the series to a close with #12 and promised a re-launch of the title (as a "second season") eight months later. The eight-month gap is alluded to in the body of the story itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/She-Hulk

So using that 2004 run of She Hulk as the "essence" of the character is kind of misleading. And that the idea that she lacked confidence in herself is silly to begin with. The John Byrne She Hulk didn't lack self confidence or have a problem with her body image.