[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[Cattleya]

To me this is pandering. I just don't think pandering automatically results in a bad product. Clearly having a female Thor (especially as it's a brand new character IIRC and not say, Sif taking up the mantle) was designed to appeal to a female target demographic. That's pandering. Whether the comic is actually good or bad is a different issue.

You might as well say everything is pandering then, because everything has a target audience.

[Kelimbror]

Whether the comic is actually good or bad is a different issue.

It's actually included in the definition of the word:

Pander: to do or provide what someone wants or demands even though it is not proper, good, or reasonable

There is nothing unreasonable, improper, or bad about these comics....this is why I responded with my post. They are simply writing good stories with diversified characters. Pandering is changing Fury to be black in a movie without any explanation or reason. IE, unreasonable. Pandering is having two white siblings in a comic suddenly become different races with no consistency. Having Thor get turned into a woman via some magic shenanigans just to have a female Thor would be pandering.

But creating new characters, giving them real stories and plots, and maintaining the same level of quality you would expect is literally not pandering.

[Gallahadd]

Pandering is changing Fury to be black in a movie without any explanation or reason.

How's Ultimate Nick Fury for a reason. The other examples and your overall point I agree wholeheartedly with but I had to mention this.

Also, I had a thought... So X-men has been 100% female for a couple of years now, Avengers is going that way this year, Fantastic Four has always been mixed...

I know I've not kept up to date with the Marvel Universe... But are there any all/predominantly male super hero teams anymore?

[Kelimbror]

How's Ultimate Nick Fury for a reason.

Well...

His character was redesigned to look like Samuel L. Jackson, the actor who later went on to portray Nick Fury in several Marvel movies set in the established Marvel Cinematic Universe

So their reason Ult Fury looks like Sam Jackson is b/c they wanted Sam Jackson to play him in the movies. :-/ Kinda only reinforces my disdain for their decision lol. I do know what you're saying though.

are there any all/predominantly male super hero teams anymore?

If we want to be really fair here, I don't know how many all male teams there have ever been in Marvel. Even the original Avengers had Wasp in the 60s. Original X-Men had Marvel Girl in the same decade, etc. I think many writers for the longest time didn't have the ability to write solid female leads because they were all male. While they may have been forward thinking in their inclusion, they were never good at writing it.

The reason you see more females in all sorts of media is because there are more female creators who have a connection and understanding of these characters to present them intelligently and cohesively. While some male writers can be very convincing, at the end of the day we don't have va jay jays and simply cannot relate in that deep of a level.

[Gallahadd]

So their reason Ult Fury looks like Sam Jackson is b/c they wanted Sam Jackson to play him in the movies. :-/ Kinda only reinforces my disdain for their decision lol. I do know what you're saying though.

Not sure where you're reading that ... That quote you linked says that he was designed to look like Sam Jackson, who then took on the role for the MCU, not that he was redesigned to look like Sam Jackson SO he could play him in the MCU. Hell the redesign happened in 2001, Iron Man 1(the film credited with creating the current MCU, also the first time Sam Jackson took on the role on screen) wasn't released until 2008, IF the change was done solely to facilitate the MCU, they would have done it far closer, so that they could ride the hype train.

Frankly... Even if it was just done to bring Sam Jackson into the MCU (and you wont convince me it was)... Is that really pandering? Can you honestly tell me the MCU is any weaker, or worse off for having Sam Jackson as Nick Fury?

If we want to be really fair here, I don't know how many all male teams there have ever been in Marvel. Even the original Avengers had Wasp in the 60s. Original X-Men had Marvel Girl in the same decade, etc. I think many writers for the longest time didn't have the ability to write solid female leads because they were all male. While they may have been forward thinking in their inclusion, they were never good at writing it.

You'll note my use of the word predominantly , I don't think there has EVER been a total sausage team, it just amuses me that comics still have this reputation for being all about big guys with muscles, powers and bad costumes... Yet argueably the two most well known Marvel super groups, Xmen and The Avengers are actually 100% ladies now, something which has NEVER happened the other way around.

The reason you see more females in all sorts of media is because there are more female creators who have a connection and understanding of these characters to present them intelligently and cohesively. While some male writers can be very convincing, at the end of the day we don't have va jay jays and simply cannot relate in that deep of a level.

100% agreed. I'm a LONG time fantasy reader, and it really shows when male writers have ladies to help them and vice versa. Look at Eddings, he was held up for YEARS as one of "The Good Guys", because he wrote great, well rounded female characters... Then he finally admitted that's because his wife helped him write most of his books . Then on the other hand you have writers like Robert Jordan, who wrote alone and constantly get flak for how bad their lead females are.

[Kelimbror]

Not sure where you're reading that

The link that was provided. It was saying they intentionally drew Samuel L Jackson as Nick Fury. What other reason would they do that unless they already knew he would play him? They up and decided hey..let's make Sam Jackson Fury, out of the blue. No rhyme, no reason, just because they thought it would be 'cool'. It was not cool. It would be a little silly for me to draw the president as Mitt Romney and then it's actually a role taken on by Hillary Clinton.

In any case, I don't want to sound like I'm arguing with you as we agree on basically everything we're talking about...I just have a really, really sore spot with him as Fury b/c I loathe him as an actor and as a person. The best job he's ever done with the character was on Agents of SHIELD, but I have to live with the fact that he isn't dead b/c of it.

[Gallahadd]

The link that was provided.

It's actually all a little strange... I'd not really looked into it that much before, but this conversation (it's totally not an arguement, we're both staying civil so it's a coversation, at worst a discussion ) got me interested in the whole thing...

Went they released the Ultimate universe, Nick Fury was black, but he didn't look anything like Sam Jackson. It was only a year later than he was then redesigned again, this time to the current version (they even make a joke in the first comic with his new look, about which actors would play them in a movie, Fury remarks "Mr. Samuel L. Jackson, of course, no discussion."). It was only after seeing the redesigned Nick Fury in the first issue of The Ultimates that Samuel L. Jackson learned of the use of his likeness and contacted Marvel in order to secure the role of Nick Fury in any future movies which would feature the character... Is it just me or is that borderline ilegal? I mean I can't release a comic with a character in it that looks JUST like a living person without their permission... Even going as far as to make a joke about the similar appearace.

Very bizarre.

Anyway back on sorta topic, it seems that he wasn't redesigned explicitly to allow for Sam Jackson to play Fury... He was kinda made that way to work as bait .

[Dhrizzle]

Anyone taking bets that when the Secret Wars are over the new mainstream universe will feature Jackson's Fury and Agent Coulson?

[Immitis]

How's Ultimate Nick Fury for a reason. The other examples and your overall point I agree wholeheartedly with but I had to mention this.

Also, I had a thought... So X-men has been 100% female for a couple of years now, Avengers is going that way this year, Fantastic Four has always been mixed...

I know I've not kept up to date with the Marvel Universe... But are there any all/predominantly male super hero teams anymore?

most teams still have mostly males with 1 - 3 female.

theres also the amazing x-men which is pretty balanced but there is still more males then females



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Anyone taking bets that when the Secret Wars are over the new mainstream universe will feature Jackson's Fury and Agent Coulson?

616 already has a black nick fury jr and agent coulson.



hes one of the lost sons of the original nick fury, who stepped down and gave him the title.

[Gallahadd]

most teams still have mostly males with 1 - 3 female.

theres also the amazing x-men which is pretty balanced but there is still more males then females

This is why I think Secret Wars and all that comes after it is actually a very good idea . I always forget there's like 3 seperate Xmen comics running at any one time... The line up for that's not bad either... It's not as strong as the core lineup, but it's pretty good.

[Immitis]

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"The February issue of OK magazine claims that Marvel are very keen to get Angelina Jolie as the director for their first female-led movie, citing her work on Unbroken as well as the need for a woman's insight in bringing Carol Danvers to the big screen. "

http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/02/movies-captain-marvel-rumor-marvel.html

[Kelimbror]

No Marvel. Stop it. Angelina Jolie doesn't need to be anywhere near anything you do. It's a trap.

[Kalcheus]

Bam!

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hea...studios-772127

"As part of the revamp, the new Spider-Man will first appear in a Marvel film. The companies are not revealing details but that movie is likely to be Captain America: Civil War; the character was a major player in the comics storyline. Andrew Garfield is not expected to reprise the character.


Once the character is re-launched, Sony will then release a new Spider-Man movie on July 28, 2017. Marvel’s Kevin Feige will join Amy Pascal as a producer on the new movie. The duo will “collaborate on a new creative direction for the web slinger,” according to the companies."

[KrazyK923]

Yesssssss finally

Here's hoping for Miles Morales

Shhhhhhhhh I don't even care he wasn't the Spider Man during the Civil War.

[Azaile-]

It will be Parker, the movie will be Civil War.

But it may open the door for Morales a bit later

[Super Kami Dende]

The spiderman avenger hype is real!

[Feral Camel]

I think its great news... now if the could get the X-Men I'd be so happy!

So has a stage 4 been confirmed?

[Immitis]

so they went with the deal we had heard about. sony will make one more movie for 2017 with marvel overseeing it then marvel will start making the movies.

i never thought this day would actually happen. im so happy



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Yesssssss finally

Here's hoping for Miles Morales

Shhhhhhhhh I don't even care he wasn't the Spider Man during the Civil War.

dont get your hopes up, its peter parker. its gonna be a young peter in highschool, theyre gonna skip the origin story and the romance aspect is going to be a small subplot instead of being a major plot point, the major focus is going to be on peter being spider-man not mary jane or gwen stacy or any other relationship.

just gonna be spider-man spider-maning.

not that miles morales wont come later, considering how popular he is and the fact that he will now be joining the main 616 universe its likely they will introduce him at some point.

[BloodyAngel12]

Immitis could you do me a favour and do a massive recap post with info for every Mcu film, om it to me so i can update the first page of thread.

[Immitis]

Immitis could you do me a favour and do a massive recap post with info for every Mcu film, om it to me so i can update the first page of thread.

yeah i can try and map out what we know of everything.

Age of Ultron: quicksilver and scarlet witch are latent inhumans who havent activated their powers yet. hydra is using lokis staff to "activate" people, trying to find people with powers, they volunteer because they hate america and wanna take down the avengers to pay america back for not helping/doing something to their country where they were living.

tony starts to build ultron out of both his tech and if some of the descriptions are to be believed some of the alien tech left behind after the battle of new york. tonys idea is that, the avengers arent going to be around forever, tony kind of wants to retire. ultron is meant to be a replacement for the avengers (something cap DOES NOT LIKE) cap believes the fight is never gonna be over, that heroes retiring isnt feasible. at some point scarlet witch casts like a spell on them to bring out all of the avengers bad sides, the only one it doesnt affect is cap. after they barley make it out theyre in this like cabin, cap is just breaking wood with his hands (we saw part of this in a preview)



tony is kind of skeptical and a little insecure, upset that cap basically doesnt have a dark side and thats how the whole conversation starts and its really all kind of a foreshadowing of civil war, basically showing that cap and iron man disagree on alot of basic stuff and that the tension is really growing there.

ultron rebels. kind of early on, and the avengers barely defeat him, theyre all having a party. thats when ultron does that whole string speech and he escapes.

i dont know when exactly in the movie but at some point he goes into wakanda and just steals vibranium and really messes the place up (the main reason t'chala is so pissed in civil war. hes like "yo your robot fucked my country up whos going to do something about this?) wakanda is very isolationist, theyre very protective of their vibranium. without adamantium in the marvel cinematic universe vibranium is basically the most valualbe substance and wakanda has a monopoly on it and they dont like sharing. its not entirely clear how vision is made, but hes voiced by the same guy who voices jarvis, but hes not jarvis. he has aspects of jarvis but hes kind of his own thing.

ultron is really just destroying the avengers and at some point they get scarlet witch and and quicksilver to join their side along with vision and they barely make it out alive. thor is fucking pissed, thats why you see him grab tony by the throat. something happens to hulk, we dont know for sure what but the major theory is hes blasted into space. but whatever the reason hulk is out of commision until like infinity war part 2.

basically all the avengers are broken and hurt and they all go their seperate ways. tony forming a new team. and cap forming a new team. one of the major characters plots of ultron is supposed to be a relationship between hulk/banner and black widow, theyve also hinted that black widows origin story will be shown in flashbacks, atleast a little bit.

the end credit scene is supposed to be cap walking out, this takes place like a long ways into the future, and he walks out and looks over and meets his team of avengers all kind of standing around in the general avengers assemble kinda pose.

so it ends with thor out doing ragnorak stuff. hulk somewhere. war machine is likely the sacrificial lamb of the movie, theres been no mention of a contract extension and no mention of him being in any other movies and everything points to that being a major plot point for him turning to the government.

Civil War: winter soldier is going to be very central to this story, what most people are saying is that while bucky was brain washed he was the one who killed tonys parents. tony wants to arrest him, cap wants to save him because buckys his friend.

tonys team is likely quicksilver, scarlet witch, vision, pym, if hes not dead war machine, maybe hawkeye (havent really heard much of hawkeye)

caps team is gonna be black widow, falcon, ant man, black panther, strange, and captain marvel. and now most likely spidey
(even if the ant man movie doesnt do well, hes still gonna have a presence in the movies through the avengers stuff)

some of the team members arent going to be like a part of the team from the get go. black panther is mostly on his own side throughout most of the movie. and as far as i know the teams arent final. its basically just the outline. if they want they can save some characters for later, or move them around but for the most part by the end of civil war thats what the two sides are gonna look like.

theres probably gonna be a few cameos, maybe netflix show stuff? idk. the tv side is canon and it takes place in the movie universe but the production behind the two sides are still their own thing so i think some of them wont be showing up till infinity war on the movie side of things.

secret identities might come up for one or two heroes but its not central or a major plot point like in the comics. its mostly tony wants more control, he wants a saftey net. he fucked up so hard and hes like "man, someone needs to be in charge, there needs to be a system in place for things like this yadda yadda yadda" cap believes in order for heroes to do what they do they need to be independent. things get heated and it becomes, well a civil war. in the comics cap is CLEARLY the good guy but that wont be the case for the movie they want both sides to seem like the good guy.

black panther and winter soldier mostly replace spideys role. those are the two characters the main sides are going to be fighting over. both sides want black panther on their team, both sides want something to do with winter soldier. panther kinda wants to do his own thing, hes not in it for the heroes or the governement hes in it for wakanda. wakanda is what matters to t'chala.

baron zemo is also going to be a major villain of the movie. even though there is all these other characters the major focus is still on cap and winter soldier. the working title of the movie was fallen son so its very much still a captain america movie despite all the extra stuff



at some point near the end cap will almost definitely die. (whether he actually dies or not, or only looks like he dies who knows) at which point its very likely bucky will take up caps shield and become captain america, but they could also go the falcon route

the most likely leader for caps team after his death is strange, captain marvel is also a strong candidate.

GOTG2: we dont know much about this movie, we know it'll involve star lords dad but gunn said its going to be an all original new story, so his dad wont be the same as in the comics. its very very very likely adam warlock will join the team, as well as one of the other female guardians since gunn has said he would like to add another female to the team. nebula will return, thanos will likely return. it will most likely end or atleast lead into the guardians going to earth. we know that they will show up in infinity war either part 1 or part 2 or both so somehow theyve gotta get to earth. he also said marvel thought the sequel idea was risky so it might have some surprises and some cool unexpected moments.

Doctor Strange: we dont know too much about this movie. we know the astral plane is going to be a very heavy part of the movie and this movie is gonna kinda be the gateway to all the supernatural and whatnot side to the marvel universe alot like how guardians was the gateway to all the celestial spacey type stuff, just like guardians its very much gonna open up new avenues for storytelling in the marvel universe and lay some groundwork. also like guardians it probably wont have much if any crossover with the other movies, it will very much be all about strange and his journey. the intial report was no more origin stories but we still might get a little bit of origin. the villain is most likely to be dormammu, but theres been some talks of mephisto and baron mordo. but most people have a feeling the main villain is gonna be dormammu. Chiwetel Ejiofor will either be playing the villain or the ancient one. the director has been releasing images like this so this might give you a sense for the tone of the movie






Ant Man: scott lang is very much going to be one of the more human characters in the marvel universe. all he wants is to take care of his daughter. there will be some flash backs will have pym as antman with tonys dad. pyms daughter is trying to usurp control of pym industries and is on the bad guys side. it hasnt been said but its implied something happened to janet that caused pym to hang up his suit and its caused bad blood between pym and his daughter. the yellowjacket suit is kind of an upgraded ant man suit that pym had been working on but after his daughter usurps control it lands in the hands of the villain. so pym enlists scott lang to help him break into pym industries and steal back all the pym particle stuff so it cant land in the wrong hands anymore then it already has. its not your traditional super hero movie. its more like oceans 11 mixed with a spy thriller and some super powers. it'll be kind of lighthearted, there will be plenty of jokes, but its not all fun and games theres plenty of serious stuff. i dont know exactly how it ends but it doesnt seem good for lang. he ends up in jail next to black widow which leads into him joining caps team. i think pym gets off free because tony approaches pym which puts pym with tony.

im not sure how pym being with tony and scott being with cap will affect their relationship. maybe pym puts the suit back on at some point. who knows. but im guessing it will atleast cause some tension.

Thor Ragnorok: no script has been made as far as im aware so i dont know much of whats going to happen in this movie. but just assuming im guessing it will revolve mostly around the massive shit storm loki has been coming up with while hes sat on the throne. idk how or why but thor by the end of it ends up missing, or imprisoned, or dead

Black Panther: i have no idea whats going to happen in this movie either since they havent really started working on it. im guessing andy serkis will be involved somehow but theres really alot of things they could do with it



Captain Marvel: again, no clue. rumour is theyre looking at agenlina jolie to direct it but idk how truthful that rumour is. idk if mar'vell is going to be included at all, with the kree connection they might try to tie it in somewhat with the inhumans but the movies really up in the air.

Inhumans: theyre building up the more human side of the inhumans on agents of shield but idk how much if any impact that will have on the movie side. they'll most definitely be filling the role of x-men so i guess think of it as x-men but with crystals, and weird mist, and atlantis esque cities and whatnot

infinity war part 1: thor, iron man, steves version of cap, and hulk will not be in this movie except maybe as a cameo at the end. both infinity war movies are going to have massive casts. pretty much all corners of the marvel universe will be in this movie and probably a few new ones as well. the first movie will focus mostly on the new avengers since the majority of the old ones are out

infinity war part 2: thor and iron man will come back. steve will come back to life somehow, or be revealed to have been held or something idk if hes back permanently or if this will be these guys last hurrah as these characters before being recast/replaced/sidelined. i guess it mostly depends on outside stuff like who renews their contracts.

this is the big money maker, where everything has led up to. EVERYONE will be in this movie. everyone will be fighting to save the universe. some people are probably gonna die. some people are gonna get hurt. its gonna be a bloodbath and its not gonna be easy.

this is thanos story, idk if theyre gonna kill him at the end of this or lock him up. marvel thinks longterm so i think theyre gonna find a way so that thanos can rear his head again at some point like they did with loki.

this is the big game. the battle to top off all thats come before.



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and as for marvels spidey. he will likely show up via cameos in movies where it makes sense to generate hype and recognition for marvels version of him

movie wise we know nothing about who will be villain, what the plot will be ect ect.

all we know is that its a young peter in highschool. maybe even just starting highschool. whoever they get to play peter theyre going to want him to play peter for a long while. spidey, like iron man was for these phases will likely be the thread that connects the marvel movies starting phase 4. they'll probably get an actual teenager to play him instead of a 30 year old like sonys past few movies.

they'll be skipping the origin story, so this is a spider-man whos been spider-man for atleast like a couple months. hes not SUPER experienced, but hes not like "woah i can climb walls now" he knows what hes trying to do.

romance was a big part of all of sonys movies. marvel doesnt like that, its not gonna be a big thing in these movies. it might be a sub/background plot but dont expect mary jane or gwen stacy to be a major screen time stealer like they were in sonys movies.

its very much gonna hit the ground running

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the sources for my info come from various places. but the bulk of it comes from badass digest and latino review. as always things can and do change as new things develop but all my sources have been on the money practically non stop and im like 99% sure this is basically what the next few years is gonna look like for marvel