Sen. Feinstein doesn't approve spying when she's the target.

[MagicMedicine]

You aren't forced to live in the United States either.

Which is irrelevant when they have no issues monitoring other countries too. They sent an armed gun-squad to an elderly German woman's home (in Germany) and held her under house arrest because her son (who happened to be living at literally the other side of the world in NZ at this point) owned a website that Hollywood had spat their dummies out over. There is a US base in the countryside a ~half hour drive from my home (in England) which monitors domestic phone-call conversations.

[Elegiac]

Which is irrelevant when they have no issues monitoring other countries too. They sent an armed gun-squad to an elderly German woman's home (in Germany) and held her under house arrest because her son (who happened to be living at literally the other side of the world in NZ at this point) owned a website that Hollywood had spat their dummies out over. There is a US base in the countryside a ~half hour drive from my home (in England) which monitors domestic phone-call conversations.

And your point is....what? Everyone spies on everyone else.

[MagicMedicine]

And your point is....what? Everyone spies on everyone else.

That the notion that the US surveillance-farm attitude is comparable to checking a "Terms and Conditions" box when signing up for a Paypal or Google account isn't appropriate considering that you'll be spied on, or worse, by the US wherever in the world you go. You can't opt out. That's precisely the point.

[Elegiac]

That the notion that the US surveillance-farm attitude is comparable to checking a "Terms and Conditions" box when signing up for a Paypal or Google account isn't appropriate considering that you'll be spied on, or worse, by the US wherever in the world you go. You can't opt out. That's precisely the point.

The point of that argument was mainly to call out the "fair weather libertarians" that fail to see the analogue.

My personal belief is that one does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy over the internet at the present, thus the NSA complaints are rather baseless.

[Deleted]

That the notion that the US surveillance-farm attitude is comparable to checking a "Terms and Conditions" box when signing up for a Paypal or Google account isn't appropriate considering that you'll be spied on, or worse, by the US wherever in the world you go. You can't opt it. That's precisely the point.

Google knows every search you've ever made, exactly. Yahoo knows every e-mail you've received and sent, exactly.

You talk about opting in but by opting to use the Internet you just relinquish every piece of data about yourself and habbits.

Do I like the spying? Fuck no, but accept it because it will never stop. Also the GCHQ totally doesn't exist, it's not like us in the UK are totally innocent in this whole spying business is it?

[DEATHETERNAL]

I am going to point this out again.

Private corporations like Google, Paypal, etc. have far, far more access to your personal information than the NSA ever does. Why is it any more acceptable for them to do so than the government - especially considering the former are not accountable to the general public.

We give them that information by choice and generally agree to let them do next to anything with it. It's only an issue for people who want to have their cake and eat it too.

You aren't forced to live in the United States either.

No, but I essentially own stock in the country by being a citizen just like owning stock in a company. A company's purpose is to make money. If a company I own stock in is failing to fulfill that purpose, I'll try to get them to change or sell my stock. The purpose of a country's government is to ensure the liberty of its citizenry and perpetuate its own existence. If the country I own stock in by being a citizen is failing to fulfill that purpose, I'll try to get them to change or sell my stock.

I am not forced to live in the United States, but I am a shareholder at this point in time and will try to use that status to move the government direction toward its actual purpose.

[Elegiac]

We give them that information by choice and generally agree to let them do next to anything with it. It's only an issue for people who want to have their cake and eat it too.

I never got that analogy. Isn't one "having" their cake when they eat it?

[Sunseeker]

That's not spying. That's tampering with evidence and hindering an investigation, both of which are hugely illegal.

I don't really give a damn if the government wants to spy on me, I don't like it, but I can live with it. Messing with my stuff is an entirely different story.

[Masark]

I never got that analogy. Isn't one "having" their cake when they eat it?

No. Once you're eaten the cake, you no longer have it.

[DEATHETERNAL]

I never got that analogy. Isn't one "having" their cake when they eat it?

If I eat my cake, I no longer have it. It is wanting to both be able to eat your cake and still have it afterward despite having eaten it. It would be like wanting to go into a grocery store, selecting what I want to buy, showing them that I have money to pay for the groceries, then being allowed to walk out with my groceries without actually giving them my money.

[Elegiac]

No. Once you're eaten the cake, you no longer have it.

But one has "had" the cake when they have eaten it.

[Deleted]

No. Once you're eaten the cake, you no longer have it.

Regurgitate that shit.

[Elegiac]

If I eat my cake, I no longer have it. It is wanting to both be able to eat your cake and still have it afterward despite having eaten it. It would be like wanting to go into a grocery store, selecting what I want to buy, showing them that I have money to pay for the groceries, then being allowed to walk out with my groceries without actually giving them my money.

You basically described how a credit card works.

[DEATHETERNAL]

You basically described how a credit card works.

Then I suppose you can simply eat your credit card, and then still have it to use later despite having eaten it.

[Sunseeker]

Then I suppose you can simply eat your credit card, and then still have it to use later despite having eaten it.

It will just take a few hours to process that transaction.

[Elegiac]

It will just take a few hours to process that transaction.

+5 internets, my friend.