The cloak proc, JUST THE PROC, was 15-30k dps for all of their raiders. Or about 5-6% of their dps. JUST THE PROC.
Now when you factor meta and stats into that, I think it's safe to say you're missing 10% of your dps at the very least. And for raiders at that level with perfect rotations...the cloak would be a larger percent of probably 80% of most wow players as compared to what it is for them.
There's no way you can say that's not a big deal.
Thats completely irelivent though. You are talking about a guild that is literally rolling their face at this point to clear this content.
Iron Juggernaut only requires 200k dps per person to down assuming only 15 people are doing DPS, much more managable if you are running 17+ dps obviously.
People that believe that legendary cloak is required is just telling them-self a massive lie. Is your raiding group avging 560ish ilvl? Yes, legendary cloak is going to be close to, if not a requirement. But as soon as you start pushing 570+ as a guild, its just icing on the cake (this can easily be reached by killing the first 5-10 bosses in SoO-H for a few weeks without the need of legendary cloaks).
The legendary cloak at this point is just a scapegoat for guilds to not face the facts and get rid of bad raiders that are holding the progression back. If you can't clear SoO at this point after all the nurf's and ilvls pushing 575+.... it has nothing to do with the cloak. Find the players holding you back and replace them. Peroid.
Allot of you are making it out like the cloak gives you +200k dps. It doesn't. You are literally talking 5-10% (~maybe~ a tiny bit more if rng is in your favor).This small margin could just as easily be made up by getting another upgrade or 2 from SoO-H.
it is. but at the same time this game IS gear dependent, and they made SoO with legendary cape in mind. they balanced classes with legendary in mind.... I have a priest disc, and i have to overgem spirit simple because i don't have the legendary gem... the legendary cape/gem is obligatory to everyone who wants to clear soo heroic before 6.0
the bad thing.... im pretty sure disc benefites more from the dps gem and cloak. why are you having to overgem spirit because you dont have the healing ones?
i do agree that having to repeat the entire quest line on alts is a bit of a hassle though. (yes i know its been shortened by 3 weeks alone on the valor stage) the secrets and runestones take about 5 weeks to complete, and thats being generous. ive had terrible rng on the 4 cloaks that ive gotten on the secrets stage, and better luck on the runestones.
another gripe i have about it is that the battleground quest is far beyond obnoxious if all you do is pve. you get more or less asspounded in these two bg's in full pve gear -_- and i personally hate bg's with a passion (for the most part... i especially hate the fucking skittles bg)
you talk like everyone is playing for world first here, I raid 2 days a week. the game IS NOT balanced around world first. soo is designed with legendary cloak in mind, and you don't have proof of what you're saying.
please, show me people (and I say people, not 12hours/day raiding players) clearing soo without heroic gear/legendary cape
protip: you can't.
now you come here and say legendary isn't required, of course it isn't, like garrosh doesn't require 570+ ilvl, but guess what? in normal conditions, and with normal raiding time you ain't downing him without it. This isn't even a problem since I have it on my main, but the discussion here is about grinding the same fucking bosses 5 times in a row just to have a decent alt, thing you didn't need back in the good old days.
That's what I'm saying though. The legendary cloak is far from being the breaking point of having a decent alt or not. Its been computed everywhere that depending on RNG the cloak makes up between 5-10% ( a bit higher if RNG is in your favor) of your output for dps and only 1-5% for heals. And at this point, doing 385k dps instead of 350k dps hardly even matters.
There are only ~290 25-H guilds that are 14/14 and ~417 10-H 14/14 guilds. That has everything to do with how difficult the encounters are, and how few players are capable of downing the bosses. Has absolutely nothing to do with having legendary or not.
And yes, it is difficult to find heroic raiders that don't have the legendary cloak. But that has nothing to do with it being a requirement... Its a 100% quest reward item that is BiS for everybody. Anybody that takes raiding seriously is going to have one on their main (and probably a few alts at this point in time).
All im saying, is that you are making it out like the legendary cloak is the end all be all this late into SoO and the expansion for alts. It simply isn't. No legendary has ever been that important, and neither is this one. Just be thankful that this time around its rollface easy and 100% guaranteed quest reward for everybody.
And food for thought, if blizzard did balance SoO heroic based on everybody having legendary cloaks... why do cloaks drop in SoO heroic???
It isn't necessary.
The players are the problem, if you are expected to have it.
But the players _are_ the game, so it is necessary. Perhaps it would be nice if we lived in your theoretical world, but we don't. The legendary is mandatory for any member of a respectable raid group, and that's because Blizz made it a time sink that any player can do on their own. When obtaining a legendary required the coordination of an entire raid (LFR don't count) it was understood that most would not have one when it was relevant.
There are A LOT of people, myself included, that have not been playing the game continuously this expansion. Or guilds that have been playing.
My guild for example, most of us are past heroic raider we just came back about 3 months ago. All of us were at various stages of the cloak quest and gear levels. And yeah we've all got it on our mains now and after grinding normal clears for a few weeks we're now 9/14 H in 3 weeks of progression. And I can tell you those cloaks made a huge friggin difference when a few of started to get them, especially since we were clearing normal in flex/lfr gear for the most part.
Anyway, I hate the cloak for the very reason I keep trying to say. It's a MASSIVE time sink for any character you try to get it on. My alt warlock has killed 97 Secret bosses now, and I have 18 secrets. It's atrocious. And the same as my main was back in the day, it's all lfr geared and the cloak would be a HUGE deal. And millions of players have one. If it was like a Shadowmourne or Rogue daggers where only some people had it, and only certain classes and raids weren't balanced around it and they were just a bonus. No one would care.
That's why this legendary sucks.
Not to mention almost any dps player the fun comes in the competition. Especially in heroics. At least for me, pulling off the execution and still stomping meters. And if you don't have the cloak, you aren't competitive. End of story.
What I would like to see though is a faster avenue for legendary progression. Two things in particular I'd like to see (if an account has at least one character with a legendary cloak),
- Increase the drop rate for Sigils/Secrets/Runestones
- Add a rep boost for Black Prince rep, similar to what they implemented for other factions in Pandaria
I agree, except for the rep. The rep can be knocked out with a few people and an hour of mindless IoT mob grinding with a guild standard. It is really quite fast, although I guess adding a grand commendation wouldn't hurt. They should also take out the requirement to win SSM/Temple as well, just make it a quest to do the BG once and that's it.
This late in the expansion, a 100% droprate on sigils/secrets/runestones really wouldn't be hurting anyone. Personally I'd rather grind out the cloak on my alts with a very nerfed questline or a "fast track" than have to pay whatever gold-sink amount Blizzard deems cloaks on alts should be worth (probably something ridiculous like 3k). At this point the cloak is required by the player base for any raiding past Flex, and even then I've seen tons of OpenRaids that won't even consider you without a cloak.
They should decrease the cost for each one of your toon that have it :
First toon would have the current cost :
10+10 / 3000 VP (remember, it was 6k at first ) / 20 / 12
Second would have a 25% discount :
8+8 / 2250 VP / 15 / 9
Third one (75% of 2nd one) :
6+6 / 1700 Vp / 11 / 7
This way you still have to work for it but it is quicker after a get a couple of them.
And this wouldn't decrease too much the cost : for your 6th cape, the modifier would be 0.23 (0.75^5), meaning you would need :
2+2 / 700 VP / 5 / 3
Which might be obtained in one week with luck, but could also take 2-3 weeks (the luck being to get the first 2+2 sigils while getting less than 300 VP, and then having a bit of luck on the runestone drops).