Risk vs Reward gone in this game?

[topapagaramonde]

Hello,

I recently came back to D3, though I love the new changes, there is one big issue that is keeping me from buying the Xpac.

Harder difficulties do not give better quality loot. They only drop more often. As someone coming from WoW, this is like if LFR difficulty dropped the same quality loot as Heroics, except with a lower chance, but I can run lower difficulties faster since stuff dies faster...

If someone can convince me otherwise, would be great.

[Deleted]

run HC maybe

[Deleted]

Hello,

I recently came back to D3, though I love the new changes, there is one big issue that is keeping me from buying the Xpac.

Harder difficulties do not give better quality loot. They only drop more often. As someone coming from WoW, this is like if LFR difficulty dropped the same quality loot as Heroics, except with a lower chance, but I can run lower difficulties faster since stuff dies faster...

If someone can convince me otherwise, would be great.

Harder difficulty giving better gear isn't a Diablo thing. It never was. If it existed in Diablo 3 at any point, then it wasn't a smart idea, at all. Diablo games and Diablo clones aren't about being in some world first raid guild pushing through some raid to get your raider's e-peen pumps. They're about farming the same mind-numbingly easy content over and over and over and over and over and over and over ad infinitum.

[Kalcheus]

If you're in it for the gear and not for the challenge, you're probably right.

[Fencers]

Not sure this is a valid complaint. Diablo 3's original risk/reward axis was essentially confined to hardcore mode. Which is exactly the situation now.

RoS-era D3 higher difficulties allow more efficient gold and Xp farming. That's better loot farming too- indirectly, but everything in ROS costs a SHITTON of gold and materials to perfect. Thus if one actually wanted to shoot for the moon the path that offered the highest return in Xp/Gold per hour would be preferred one.

[topapagaramonde]

If you're in it for the gear and not for the challenge, you're probably right.

I want the challenge but I would also want reward for my risk. If Paragon levels for example were gated after certain breakpoints to only be achievable via harder torment levels, I would take that with the same loot system they have now. But as it stands, you can grind out paragon levels and loot faster via an easier difficulty where you kill stuff at a "fast enough" pace. You can call me shallow but that is the way I see it.

[Fencers]

Well, getting higher paragon levels is a slow process. You want to be able to do the highest difficulty possible to efficiently gain more PL. Getting levels on lower difficulties can get rather slow- not "faster" at easier difficulties.

And the gold/materials. Everything costs a ton.

[AeneasBK]

*shrug* the difficulty slider is for what your mood is.

Fancy playing focused, trying to survive, taking 2 minutes for each champion pack, whack it up to tVI

Chatting to friends while mindlessly watching demons explode by the hundreds? tI or lower...

Trying to see how fast you can sprint through the entire game from The Fallen Star through to Diablo: Normal.

Its not about getting the best gear the fastest really. Just fun, with a slight progression curve

[SlippyCheeze]

I want the challenge but I would also want reward for my risk. If Paragon levels for example were gated after certain breakpoints to only be achievable via harder torment levels, I would take that with the same loot system they have now. But as it stands, you can grind out paragon levels and loot faster via an easier difficulty where you kill stuff at a "fast enough" pace. You can call me shallow but that is the way I see it.

Then, for you, the answer is that there is no point doing anything harder than LFR, or Normal mode. Don't waste your time doing hard work if all you care about is the quality of loot at the end, and you are willing to spend hours doing something trivial for that reward. You can, by your own measure, win the game without ever breaking a sweat.

Which is great! You won! Awesome. Probably took a couple of evenings effort. If I felt like that, the economics of the expansion would totally not make sense to me until I could pick it up for, like, five or six dollars -- three dollars a night worth of entertainment seems reasonable enough for a computer game, given the other choices available to me.

Personally, I like the challenge. The loot is just a way to beat the current challenge and step up to the next one, so... yeah, I am happy with the economics of it. I don't need "better" loot in harder modes, I would do them anyway. So, for me it makes sense. For you, not so much.

Neither of us is right or wrong, except perhaps if we start pushing the other to accept our view as "correct" instead of just "different".

[Orange Joe]

I will never understand this. Why do you care what other people can/can't do? You are suppose to play a game because it is fun to play. Not because only certain people can get certain gear.


Honestly how does it effect you if I have the best gear in the game from playing normal?

[Fencers]

I think it is worth mentioning that there is reward to risking your gold/character life on harder difficulties. What is the actual issue is the OP of this thread is looking for a different kind of reward from that which D3's difficulty selection offers.

The OP's perspective is not faulty- it's just out of line with that present in game. But there is reward for risking higher difficulties, objectively speaking.

[topapagaramonde]

Then, for you, the answer is that there is no point doing anything harder than LFR, or Normal mode. Don't waste your time doing hard work if all you care about is the quality of loot at the end, and you are willing to spend hours doing something trivial for that reward. You can, by your own measure, win the game without ever breaking a sweat.

Can't figure out if yer trying to troll me or just did not understand what I said.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Can't figure out if yer trying to troll me or just did not understand what I said.

Makes sense to me, you'd rather take an easier and slower path rather than the harder and faster path (at least that is how I've interpreted your OP). The reward for the risk you're taking isn't better gear, it is more chances at gear thus more chances at optimizing your character;If you're not playing the game with the intent to maximize efficiency then that is probably why you're having trouble keeping interest. You might want to play HC, I avoid it because I prefer to have room for error so I can min/max without having to start over, as the risk there can be extremely high.

[kikiwrx]

Makes sense to me, you'd rather take an easier and slower path rather than the harder and faster path (at least that is how I've interpreted your OP). The reward for the risk you're taking isn't better gear, it is more chances at gear thus more chances at optimizing your character;If you're not playing the game with the intent to maximize efficiency then that is probably why you're having trouble keeping interest. You might want to play HC, I avoid it because I prefer to have room for error so I can min/max without having to start over, as the risk there can be extremely high.

Wrong. OP CLEARLY stated he wants better quality gear for harder difficulty. He doesn't state that he cares about the quantity, but the quality of gear (which in any other game is reasonable) doesn't match the risk (higher difficulty) and thus doesn't think running harder difficulties is worth anything when you can get the same gear, and more quickly probably, from running lower difficulty settings.

Unfortunately, that's not how Diablo has been designed. The reward part is more so a self-serving reward in knowing that you are able to play on a higher difficulty than the average. I do understand you wanting better quality gear that is only obtainable from harder difficulties as sometimes I feel the same way, but keep in mind, this isn't WoW or any game like that.

[SlippyCheeze]

Can't figure out if yer trying to troll me or just did not understand what I said.

Well, probably the later, but... you said you are thinking you don't want to buy the xpac because you get the same loot quality in "easy" mode as in "hard" mode, right? From that I infer that you consider getting "the best" loot in the game to be winning, and that means that in loot 2.0 world you can totally win without ever having to leave super-easy mode.

So, I don't think you want to buy the xpac. It will cost a lot, and you won't get a lot of enjoyment out of it, because you hit *your* idea of winning really quickly, and easily, without any significant challenge to make it worth *your* time and money. This is, obviously, an opinion based on my (perhaps incorrect) understand of your position, yo.

I also see that you are maybe fishing for people to tell you that, no, what I said isn't true, you won't just "win" on easy-mode by getting the best loot, and that it is worth it... but I don't think people should tell you that. If you need higher ilvl loot drops to make it worth the effort of doing something harder, Diablo just won't give it to you.

...but, yeah, maybe I misunderstood your point?

[Sativ]

I'm waiting for RoS to see if things get spiced up a bit.

[Kelimbror]

Risk vs Reward is accomplished in HC mode via self toggling difficulties. Time vs Reward is accomplished in normal mode via maxing your efficiency, again, via self toggling difficulties. I'm starting to think your understanding of the game's design is inherently faulty and as such I don't recommend you continue playing or purchase the expansion.

[Eaglehorn]

Harder difficulty giving better gear isn't a Diablo thing. It never was. If it existed in Diablo 3 at any point, then it wasn't a smart idea, at all. Diablo games and Diablo clones aren't about being in some world first raid guild pushing through some raid to get your raider's e-peen pumps. They're about farming the same mind-numbingly easy content over and over and over and over and over and over and over ad infinitum.

Yes, it was... baal dropped the best items in the game... If you ever got a baal grand charm you held onto that thing for dear life and just rerolled it until you got a 45+life/skill charm. I agree with the OP, higher torment should drop noticeably better gear... its a gear progression game after all. The game never gets boring if you can keep challenging yourself with infinitely higher torment levels that drop better gear. Even if its just a few measly main stat points, people will continue to play when they consistently get upgrades that keep them interested.

[Orange Joe]

Yes, it was... baal dropped the best items in the game... If you ever got a baal grand charm you held onto that thing for dear life and just rerolled it until you got a 45+life/skill charm. I agree with the OP, higher torment should drop noticeably better gear... its a gear progression game after all. The game never gets boring if you can keep challenging yourself with infinitely higher torment levels that drop better gear. Even if its just a few measly main stat points, people will continue to play when they consistently get upgrades that keep them interested.

Please tell me you are joking.