Tinker Discussion Thread

[jishdefish]

I think it's a moronic idea driven by the moronic people that thrive on the internet. It's called engineering and it defeats the purpose of your tinker class.

I don't get this argument honestly. Engineering is to the Tinker class as Enchanting is to the Mage class. Just because they share a common element doesn't mean they can't coexist, as they're two completely different parts of the game.

[Bullettime]

If you look carefully, they aren't really that popular...even here. The same people start and support every "Tinker" thread and poll, and the same people try to steer every "new class" discussion toward them. When someone starts a poll about them, most people either don't want the class made, or just don't care.

Personally, I think they have no place in Warcraft. Gnome Tinkers were a bad idea that started out with Dragonlance and should have died there. The argument "well, 4th edition had them!11!1one!!1" is not a point in their favor. 4th Edition failed. [Look up Pathfinder Player's Guide on Amazon. Look up the 4E Players' Handbook. Which sells more?] Moreover, 4th Edition failed specifically because it tried be like World of Warcraft. So adding World of Warcraft classes styled on 4th Edition would be the Human Centipede of RPG design.

There's more than Gnome tinkers. Dwarves and Goblins are also expert engineers, as are the Draenei and now Orcs thanks to Garrosh.

[Vulcanasm]

There's more than Gnome tinkers. Dwarves and Goblins are also expert engineers, as are the Draenei and now Orcs thanks to Garrosh.

How does that change a single thing I said?

[TheWindWalker]

I don't get this argument honestly. Engineering is to the Tinker class as Enchanting is to the Mage class. Just because they share a common element doesn't mean they can't coexist, as they're two completely different parts of the game.

Only if Enchanting also including making portals, conjuring fire and ice and manifesting arcane blasts.

[Hatecore]

Tinker is a Engineers. The reason it is so hyped up on here is because of a group of zealots aka Teriz and crew who keep screaming Tinker is next! dismissing all facts that disprove it.

[jishdefish]

Only if Enchanting also including making portals, conjuring fire and ice and manifesting arcane blasts.

It makes wands which do what you describe, except for portals. So, 2/3.

[Rhamses]

If you look carefully, they aren't really that popular...even here. The same people start and support every "Tinker" thread and poll, and the same people try to steer every "new class" discussion toward them. When someone starts a poll about them, most people either don't want the class made, or just don't care.

I think Kiradyn's issue is with Tinker's rivaling Demon Hunters and other RPG mainstays in many polls. As long as I've been here, Tinkers have either polled 1st or 2nd in many opinion polls as candidates for the next class in the game. Tinker threads also pop up a lot on the official forums.

I think saying they're not really that popular is a bit misleading. There are a lot of people who like the technical side of Gnomes and Goblins, and technology in general. I know I can't be the only person who chooses a Goblin or a Gnome and feel completely out of place when I begin my adventures in a technological wonderland wearing a sword or a staff on my back. It almost looks like I'm going to a renaissance fair.

[shadowmouse]

I'm not sure that they are that popular an idea, but they are something that is glaringly absent in game. We've had goblins stalking around in mechanical suits, zeppelins bombing things, skyships functioning as carriers and spacegoats in crystalline spaceships throughout the game. Steampunk is all around us and when it suits Blizz we can hop in a chopper to blow up the enemy or sleuth around blast sites. Any character can dabble in it with Engineering, but there still isn't a class that goes beyond using the occasional gun that used to be thrown in for Dwarf Hunters.

I'm not a huge fan of the Tinker but I do find it rather odd to leave it out. I can live without it, but if it were included I would play one.

[Hatecore]

Not likely. None of the Tinker's abilities exist in the profession, and that goes for the Tinker abilities in Heroes of the Storm as well. If the class was brought into the game, it would feel fine, because it could do things differently and far beyond what the profession could ever hope to do.

As for the OP, the reason its popular is because it makes the most sense,

HOTS?

Where did I say that HotS was cannon lore?

oh and from HOTS the "tinker"

"Time is money, friends", a saying all goblins live by and Gazlowe is no exception, or is he?

As a youngster, Gazlowe was a thief but managed to make enough coin through his adventures to start his own legitimate business. A business which boomed into one of the world’s most successful trading ports. Gazlowe manages the trading operations on Kalimdor in the town of Ratchet.

After the events of the Third War, Gazlowe was approached by Thrall to be the Chief Engineer in the building of Orgrimmar. He was tasked with finding a reliable water source in the dry, harsh climate of Durotar. Digging tunnels outside the city in search of an underground well, Gazlowe and his team ran into a den of kobolds, who flooded the tunnels and drove the goblin miners out. Gazlowe sent, not yet champion of the Horde, Rexxar to deal with the nuisance. Rexxar succeeded, and thus the glorious city of Orgrimmar had fresh water and plumbing.

Years and profits went on without much trouble. There was the occasional 99-Year Old Port stolen by Mad Magglish and pesky pirates to the south but nothing questing adventurers couldn't handle. It wasn't until upset fire elementals laid blaze to Orgrimmar that Gazlowe was again asked by Thrall to rebuild the city. Settling on a price, which was lowered several times, the former Warchief departed for Outland.

Following the death of the beloved Cairne Bloodhoof, the treacherous Grimtotem tribe rose up to take control of the tauren city, Thunder Bluff. Cairne's son, Baine, sent a trusted ally named Stormsong to ask Gazlowe for aid in their fight to take back the city. The plan called for outrageous amounts of explosives and weaponry, as well as zeppelins to transport troops. Demands were met and Gazlowe received an enormous sum of money and, very, very rare of a goblin, he gave most of it back as a gesture of respect to Cairne and his son. Gazlowe is keen to remain neutral for profits sake, but retains strong relations with the Horde.

[Monstercloud]

It's like any other dead-horse topic on these boards. No matter how many times it's discussed, people that are pro-(Insert idea here) want others to join their mindset, and try new creative ways to argue their side. I'd honestly hope that these kinds of topics would of died down once all the expansion info got released officially... but nope... people just love to beat a mushy, bloody topic.

[Vulcanasm]

I think Kiradyn's issue is with Tinker's rivaling Demon Hunters and other RPG mainstays in many polls. As long as I've been here, Tinkers have either polled 1st or 2nd in many opinion polls as candidates for the next class in the game. Tinker threads also pop up a lot on the official forums.

I think saying they're not really that popular is a bit misleading. There are a lot of people who like the technical side of Gnomes and Goblins, and technology in general. I know I can't be the only person who chooses a Goblin or a Gnome and feel completely out of place when I begin my adventures in a technological wonderland wearing a sword or a staff on my back. It almost looks like I'm going to a renaissance fair.

Agreed on all points. All the hype about "tinkers" seems to stem from 6 people trying to repeat themselves often enough that their idea catches on. So far, it hasn't. Honestly, I hope it doesn't.

[Gandrake]

probably because you didn't notice the amount of people who don't really care

if you ask me it feels kind of redundant to have a class called a "tinkerer" when we have a profession called "engineering"

[Ielenia]

That's like saying you can't imagine Iron Man beating a villain who uses magic or super strength.

Marvel Universe and Warcraft Universe use different rules.

[Vulcanasm]

I'm not sure that they are that popular an idea, but they are something that is glaringly absent in game. We've had goblins stalking around in mechanical suits, zeppelins bombing things, skyships functioning as carriers and spacegoats in crystalline spaceships throughout the game. Steampunk is all around us and when it suits Blizz we can hop in a chopper to blow up the enemy or sleuth around blast sites. Any character can dabble in it with Engineering, but there still isn't a class that goes beyond using the occasional gun that used to be thrown in for Dwarf Hunters.

I'm not a huge fan of the Tinker but I do find it rather odd to leave it out. I can live without it, but if it were included I would play one.

With the exception of zeppelins, your examples are a laundry list of things players find disconcerting and/or contradictory to fantasy. Does "lore, LOL" ring any bells?

[Rhamses]

Marvel Universe and Warcraft Universe use different rules.

But both are full of fantasy tropes.

[godofslack]

Only if Enchanting also including making portals, conjuring fire and ice and manifesting arcane blasts.

Yeah just like how engineering uses bombs, guns, lasers and other techy things to damage enemies and control the battlefield, oh wait it doesn't. You can't say that engineering eliminates the need for tinkers when engineers don't even do anything like a class would, engineering is 95% stats and out of combat toys.

[Rhamses]

Agreed on all points. All the hype about "tinkers" seems to stem from 6 people trying to repeat themselves often enough that their idea catches on. So far, it hasn't. Honestly, I hope it doesn't.

Well last I check, well over 100 people voted for Tinker in that class poll.

Is it scientific? No. But it shows that there's a lot more than 6 people who support the idea.

[Hatecore]

Marvel Universe and Warcraft Universe use different rules.

But but Ielenia !!!! you told me I was Batman!

[godofslack]

Marvel Universe and Warcraft Universe use different rules.

Yeah in the WoW universe technology is far more powerful than super strength and magic.



Alsostop saying that tinkers aren't popular because 25% percent of people surveyed would like them to be implemented and 35% want demon hunters. When the next closest class is bards at ~15% you can't pretend Tinkers aren't very popular (especially since they have double that of every other class theory).

[Vulcanasm]

But both are full of fantasy tropes.

Technology users aren't a fantasy trope. They're a steampunk trope. Most people who play World of Warcraft want a high fantasy setting, not a steampunk one. In fact the steampunk elements of WoW are exactly the lore elements that wind up mocked all the time (as I said to someone else, does "lore, LOL" sound familiar?).