Let's "bond" players to LFD/LFR

[Ham on Rye]

i like the idea of only giving out loot at the end of a run a lot more than the idea of putting down a 200 valor point "douchebaggery" deposit

What's that? Hunter Bow drops off the first boss? Hey, let's boot all the hunters right before we engage the final boss to make them have wasted all that time for nothing.

Yep, that wouldn't be griefed at all.

There is no problem with how LFR is set up. The only problem is the people who run it. Whenever you mix elitist douchebags, mouthbreathers, afk'ers and once a month casuals and put them in the same place, there's no way it will end well whether it's LFR, LFD, Battlegrounds, your job, Pokemon, or Monopoly.

[Ham on Rye]

So someone who has already done bosses 2 - 4 because, through no fault of their own, they were put into LFR at boss 2 should be forced to do bosses 2 - 4 again with no loot chance from these bosses just to get loot from boss 1?

Do you know/realize how often it happens that you're being placed in a group that's already in the middle of an instance?

If they've already done bosses 2-4, they get a fresh run next time.

[Deleted]

If they've already done bosses 2-4, they get a fresh run next time.

Yeah, but you'd have to complete the already commenced run first, even if you don't need anything from those bosses 2-4.

[smokii]

Do you know/realize how often it happens that you're being placed in a group that's already in the middle of an instance?

mostly caused by the amount of players that drop out of a group midway through, rather than due to dc's

but as i put in my edit, there's still no decent way of forcing players to stick with LFR, it'll never happen. if anyone really wants to drop group, they'll fake DC.

i supported LFR for a long time, as for the whole of MoP it was my only source of raiding, but my god, it sucks ass. i think i've changed position on it now, as flex modes are readily available for every difficulty in WoD, i'm starting to think they should just drop LFR altogether.

but overall, i honestly couldn't give a crap, i unsubbed a week or so ago and very much doubt i'll be back for WoD - i'm moving onto pastures new

[Doomchicken]

Putting walls up for players doesn't make them want to try harder. See "mandatory" dailies for MoP. Plenty of gating, plenty of walls for players to climb. Caused western sub loss of roughly 600k. Trying to make shit harder for the casual player will not lead to popularity. Only decline.

[Matt0193]

Well where do we start ridiculing this idea? Let's try:
So if a group of assholes decides to kick you you lose the 200 Valor... that seems smart and totally not something that would be used for griefing....
If you get DC then you lose 200 Valor? Yeah that seems fair, serves them right.
So you're the tank and you're stuck with a bunch of annoying DPS that pulls/aggroes all the time inestead of you? Yeah, just deal with it that's how it's supposed to be.
So you're the healer and people keep standing in the fire or not use their abilities which causes problems for you even making you wipe several times on the same silly boss? Yeah better stick around or you will miss the fun and lose 200 Valor.

/sarcasm off

In conclusion: stupid idea. The only thing that will "bond" people to LFD/LFR is other people. As long as there are jerks no amount of Valor bond will fix that. All it will do is prevent people from running it because they may lose Valor. If people would be more active, friendly, patient, skillful and/or helpful, all would be fine.

Fully agree with this. Another one is "Why should I get penalised for leaving after 2 bosses when I was thrown into the same wing before 2 bosses in and I have no interest, need or desire to do the same two bosses I did earlier?

[velde046]

What will "bond" people to LFD/LFR is wanting to finish it very much, but especially NOT WANTING TO ABANDON IT for any reason.

So, actually, awesome idea!

Look a bit further, what will happen is that people won't queue for LFD altogether if they run the risk of losing Valor due to idiots they end up being grouped with. I for one would not step into LFD anymore... this is a negative approach. and people lose any incentive to run them then.
If anything they could have a growth per boss for valor points. Say first boss yields you 10, second gives 20, third does 40 and 5th 80. Or something along those lines, people need incentives...

[Smudge]

Do you guys who post 'great ideals' actually spend any time at all thinking of what the counter arguments would be? A group of griefers could go in with the intentions of kicking people for lols, knowing it killed their valor.

How would a group go in and kick people? A group mostly can't kick more than one person per days/weeks now, from LFD never mind LFR.

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Look a bit further, what will happen is that people won't queue for LFD altogether if they run the risk of losing Valor due to idiots they end up being grouped with. I for one would not step into LFD anymore... this is a negative approach. and people lose any incentive to run them then.
If anything they could have a growth per boss for valor points. Say first boss yields you 10, second gives 20, third does 40 and 5th 80. Or something along those lines, people need incentives...

LFR would be improved by people refusing to queue because they couldn't just "get what they need" from it at no other cost to personal convenience.

[Kalcheus]

All this will do is encourage bad players to stick it out. Good players with alternate sources or little need of valor won't mind losing the VP to bail on a bad run.

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If they've already done bosses 2-4, the game tries to give them a fresh run next time.

Fixt. Fresh run is not guaranteed.

[shoooter]

I like this idea. If you're queuing for a shortage role and think you're gonna DC or have to leave for IRL stuff, or just won't have the patience for a bad group then we didn't want you in the first place. I'm sorry if you have these issues, but honestly, none of these strangers care and you're just screwing over the rest of us.

Also, the bond amount should be the same as the reward for completion so idiots think they are doubling their currency.

[Smudge]

mostly caused by the amount of players that drop out of a group midway through, rather than due to dc's

but as i put in my edit, there's still no decent way of forcing players to stick with LFR, it'll never happen. if anyone really wants to drop group, they'll fake DC.

Yes, but under the bond plan, if you DC, you're still 200 valor behind where you started.

[Deleted]

It's actually totally ok if someone leaves a group.

[Smudge]

Fixt. Fresh run is not guaranteed.

In my, sad to admit, hundreds of LFR runs, I can't recall ever having not been put into a fresh instance after completing a partial one. The fact that it CAN happen doesn't means that it a reality you need to be concerned with.

Now, what happens semi-regularly is that I get into a fresh instance and need only the last boss, and for whatever reason, the group falls apart before I get there.

So I have to do the whole fresh instance all over again.

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It's actually totally ok if someone leaves a group.

Sure if the only thing tanks queue for in wing 3 for is Malk, and they leave right after, that's totally not an inconvenience, right?

[Vanos27]

I honestly think this bond thing should definitely be enforced for healers and tanks. They are the ones to leave at any sign of trouble, even a tiny bit, because they have no downsides and can just get another insta-queue.

DPS leaving doesn't really matter since you get new ones in less than a second anyway.

[Deleted]

Sure if the only thing tanks queue for in wing 3 for is Malk, and they leave right after, that's totally not an inconvenience, right?

Of course it's an inconvenience. It's still ok. If someone, whether it's a tank, a healer or a dps, wants to leave for whatever reason, they should be able to do that. Especially in a system that throws you into raids where you don't know which bosses are still up. It's only normal that people are leaving when they already looted all the bosses.

[Peyj]

Sounds like a bad idea. Want to make LFR better? Make it give me loot for zoning in, and allow the bosses to be optional. It exists so people can see the content, right? I see it plenty in normal/heroic, I don't need to see it in LFR.

Hey look guys, we've found the only person in the world who plays the game, so we should just change everything to fit his needs. He sees the content on normal and heroic, so just get rid of everything else!

Can someone contact Blizzard with this? They need to know.

Seriously though, your comment is everything that is wrong with the game. "I don't need this, so get rid of it". "This doesn't serve my purpose, so it's not needed". "I don't like it, so it's useless."

There are literally millions of other people that play, and their agenda, I assure you, is wildly different to your own. And my own. And everyone else who posts in threads like these and only considers what they want.

[Smudge]

Of course it's an inconvenience. It's still ok. If someone, whether it's a tank, a healer or a dps, wants to leave for whatever reason, they should be able to do that. Especially in a system that throws you into raids where you don't know which bosses are still up. It's only normal that people are leaving when they already looted all the bosses.

Really?

So, when you are raiding, you don't mind if your tank says "sorry mates don't need these bosses have a good one."

[xindralol]

wouldn't that partly defeat the purpose of a kick feature?

[Smudge]

wouldn't that partly defeat the purpose of a kick feature?

How would it do that?

You can kick other players under only fairly limited circumstances these days anyway.

[melodramocracy]

It's likely exploitable to an extent, but not really the worst idea I've heard of on these forums. Players having some skin in the game isn't a bad thing.

A kinder, gentler version might be, for example, if loot tables were adjusted so that tier items only dropped off the last boss of a given wing. (or, that no bosses dropped anything, but the wing boss reveals a chest that players get their loot from for that entire wing).