Black Arrow question

[Deleted]

Hey there,

Got a question regarding BA.
Does anybody have information on when the DoT calculates it's damage? Does it take playerbuffs at the time shot into consideration or rather when it lands?

So, let's say I have two more seconds on my AoC proc and my Harrom's just procced. I fire BA, it takes 3sec(random number for arguments sake) in travel time and hits the boss.
Will it benefit from both trinkets, or just from the Harrom's because AoC ran out during it's flight time?


Thanks in advance for your answers ladies and gentlemen

[Deleted]

When it gets shot. Always.

It's like this with every spell in the game except those that change dynamically.

If the boss is taking increased damage, it's when it lands though.

[Keiyra]

it snapshots your stats/buffs at the time it is cast.
It updates dynamically with boss debuffs (like if a warlock casts curse of elements after your BA is already up, the remaining ticks will do 5% more damage)

...however, keep in mind - that's all going away come 6.0/WoD - when all dots/hots will update dynamically with your stats/buffs, recalculating on each tick. No more snapshoting come 6.0

[Azortharion]

Both answers above are wrong - Black Arrow snapshots when it hits the target, not when you cast it and in the case of your example, your Black Arrow would be buffed by Haromm's and not AoC.

EDIT: Apparently one of the dudes above me was so wrong he got banned wolootroltorlole seriously RIP Megamisama you'll be missed.

[reef]

note that ss and gt snapshot when they land. ss will update with each extension from cobra shot.

[Deleted]

Okay, thanks for the answers!
So it would be better to wait for BA to be closer to expire, rather than gamble for the BA to hit the target just in time for both procs to be active?
what do you take as minimum duration left for it to still be active after flight time? 2 sec, 5 sec?

[anjan011]

I think most (if not all) hunter attacks on enemy targets only effective on hit. so it makes sense when it lands it will start calculation.

[Azortharion]

Okay, thanks for the answers!
So it would be better to wait for BA to be closer to expire, rather than gamble for the BA to hit the target just in time for both procs to be active?
what do you take as minimum duration left for it to still be active after flight time? 2 sec, 5 sec?

Get this WeakAura:

dKdjcaGEQuTlbzBuPmtqA2k1Hj42sPtci7Ku2lA3u1(jKFcaddsJtQ8xGAOujgSGA4uXbfQwMuCmfDosYcfILkqwSa1YH4HcONQ6XsvphQjsL0ub1KjY0LCra1vbIlt56kzJaPtlQntuBhepti9zs10iX3jPYijPQVjIrdqJxOCjskDlb4AI05juRKKIxdG(TcZjH5B5L4LimV8Wxp7UrTPkEPm2zlig2Iv8Q1rKA4lKSUUHqy(sSJXBqmFXJxbBqmF9LSCogp44GeuCWXDXfOabSR8sleHkp88tuEdI5l(ahTbluIcdDOZVWgySJT3AcTgJWVWgy8yH0BlFUye(L3Gy(IVYTMepESq6TLpx8oBbXgcp2X2BnHwJh6OhGIcl4Lefg6qqIfpIPNhEyXogFzXkE1LLkajOjDDZOOnPUPA2eTtbLYbO0Xlp8fpWBiGaKOWGo8fVF1cJK11nem1M8zj(4UpqG6HcuGUYdOL1bSiOPrv6qBsAuMDPjOnkuoaLe(yaqwgBf1ssdPsLQ05mz2LKYVhcseMFHnW9BbmMr4rgBJW8TRDLjmlw8lSbg7y9mcp2X6jmpo713g1IYIVFlGXeMhN96BJx9GObdCqSyXlgaYYyRO2mjekkAJIYub1TMuw8y(MqOHs5HqTPYeLfja

It's a timer for LnL's ICD, don't use Black Arrow when the timer is at 2+ seconds.
Beyond that, don't use it on cooldown unless you got a proc up, wait up it's about 2s on the debuff and then reapply.

[Azortharion]

- - - Updated - - -



Or just download ExtraCD and enjoy life!

Kind of /blerh at ExtraCD for anything but trinket tracking. I'd rather want such an ICD to be -on- my Explosive Shot/Black Arrow button like a stack number but true it is a preference thing.

[Deleted]

I already track my lnl icd with weakauras, but thanks nonetheless
Usuallly i refresh at 2-3sec left at BA and with 2sec lnl icd.
Yet on thok this week i got to think. I tried and waited for AoC and Harrom's to both be up to fire the first BA. With my normal AoC this means i get BA again with 2-3sec remaining on the AoC buff, thus the question in the first place.
So I either fire BA asap which should get me a stronger BA for the next 20s, or I wait for BA's duration to get to to 2sec.

But it's a bit nittygritty, and I'll probably return to my usual opener and not delay BA for that long. AoC can be a pain in the butt to proc, once it took almost 10 sec :S

[Azortharion]

I already track my lnl icd with weakauras, but thanks nonetheless
Usuallly i refresh at 2-3sec left at BA and with 2sec lnl icd.
Yet on thok this week i got to think. I tried and waited for AoC and Harrom's to both be up to fire the first BA. With my normal AoC this means i get BA again with 2-3sec remaining on the AoC buff, thus the question in the first place.
So I either fire BA asap which should get me a stronger BA for the next 20s, or I wait for BA's duration to get to to 2sec.

But it's a bit nittygritty, and I'll probably return to my usual opener and not delay BA for that long. AoC can be a pain in the butt to proc, once it took almost 10 sec :S

Don't wait for trinket procs, like.. Ever. Sometimes you'll get lucky and sometimes you won't but it's never worth waiting for.

But do fire it asap, the only reason you would have to wait would be you hoping for a Haromm's proc and as just mentioned, never wait/hope for RPPM trinket procs.

[Deleted]

Don't wait for trinket procs, like.. Ever. Sometimes you'll get lucky and sometimes you won't but it's never worth waiting for.

But do fire it asap, the only reason you would have to wait would be you hoping for a Haromm's proc and as just mentioned, never wait/hope for RPPM trinket procs.

I'd also like to add to this, even if your AoC is about to come off CD in a few seconds, don't wait on it. That thing is a bastard sometimes. Although personally I have been known to hold onto my glaive toss for 2 seconds or so and use it as my AoC has came off CD, in the hopes I can get it to proc for a stronger BA. But yeah, it isn't worth delaying your BA.

[Deleted]

Yeah, as I said above, it was just an experiment.
Usually BA is never delayed, yet on aMoC it's easy to align it with AoC, aswell as the second stampede.

[Aldarana]

So just did some testing on a dummy, as far as I can tell BA snapshots when you cast the ability. Mostly experimented with Blood Fury as its off the GCD an easy to work with, and I didn't want to have to make more pots for raid tonight. When casting BA and then immediately hitting Blood Fury the DoT did not gain the buff. When waiting until less than a second was left on Blood Fury before casting BA the dot did get the buff. Obviously I tested while standing at range to give ample flight time. Interestingly enough SS does snapshot when landing and not when fired. Arcane Shot also appears to snapshot on use and I believe the same is true of ES though I didn't do any testing.

[Azortharion]

So just did some testing on a dummy, as far as I can tell BA snapshots when you cast the ability. Mostly experimented with Blood Fury as its off the GCD an easy to work with

Except it doesn't. Been tested before, it's all over the web, it's common knowledge that shit snapshots on hit.

Blood Fury is piss weak, a few crits/trinks can make that difference.

[Aldarana]

all over the web, it's common knowledge

Oh cool, can you link me some of the common knowledge? I did a quick search and didn't turn anything up. I probably could have looked harder though. I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, its just the only thing I remember hearing about the black arrow snapshot was that it happened on use.

As a side note I did take off all my gear and used a shit weapon so that random procs didn't interfere, but I don't pretend to be good this stuff, maybe I messed it up. If I've been doing it wrong I'd love to know for the few fights I go survival.

[Azortharion]

Oh cool, can you link me some of the common knowledge? I did a quick search and didn't turn anything up. I probably could have looked harder though. I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, its just the only thing I remember hearing about the black arrow snapshot was that it happened on use.

As a side note I did take off all my gear and used a shit weapon so that random procs didn't interfere, but I don't pretend to be good this stuff, maybe I messed it up. If I've been doing it wrong I'd love to know for the few fights I go survival.

http://i.imgur.com/y3FHGNw.png Best I could do for a direct source we can all trust 99.8% of the time (been discussed before and someone tested it. Pretty sure it was MMO-C hunter forums you can dig into), point is that that all DoTs/debuffs/stuff the player applies to the target as a debuff snapshots on hit. It's like this with all dots in the game iirc - the fact that it applies for Serpent Sting should be a decent enough source, though. (That's from the EJ BM guide so it didn't list Black Arrow, checked SV one but it's not nearly as well done).

If you've been around for any decent amount of time you'd kind of have read threads about it, though. Not trying to be a jerk either but naked character or not, Blood Fury is a pretty weak cooldown to use it with.

As for knowing it, it's not really a big deal.. Like at all, I can't think of many cases where this knowledge is really relevant and the few cases I can come up with are RPPM-based randomness.

[Kissthebaby]

Snapshotting black arrow is minor at best. If you have cdr trinket just try to keep 100 percent uptime on the target. Delaying for a second is fine say if engineer gloves or a trinket r about to come off cd. It's a very weak dot

[Aldarana]

Alright, I'm not totally convinced yet. Blood Fury is for sure a weak CD to use, I'll get some pots later tonight and go at it again and probably try logging it. The reason I'm not convinced is because when I tested I did noticed that SS did snapshot on landing as you say but BA didn't seem to. I could have done it wrong. While it does seem very odd that BA would act differently I found a thread that suggested that was the case(link) not that there were a lot of threads on the subject post-5.4.

[Illana]

I also believe BA is snapshotted on cast and not when it lands.

doing some quick tests with engi gloves and it doesn't register the agi buff while BA is in flight but works fine if I use it before firing it.

Conditions for my test were:

Regular pve gear no trinkets
Used Engi gloves before firing BA
Used engi gloves as soon as I've fired BA

When used before BA the subsequent ticks do 17366 regular ticks
When used when BA is in flight the ticks do 16250 regular ticks