Current Feral PvP Inefficiency & Boring Gameplay

[RelaZ]

Hey there everyone, I just made a post on the EU forums regarding Ferals current position in this game. If you agree with what I wrote, spread it (US forums?), if you don't agree, spread it anyway!

Hello fellow Ferals and Blizzard! I’ve recently grown very bored with the current Feral PvP gameplay and I decided to do something about it.

After the 5.4.0 Patch Ferals were gutted quite hard. Treant Stun, Nature’s Swiftness and Cyclone on Predatory Swiftness were all gone. This was however arguably understandable to some extent as Ferals had been very dominant in S13 and the community was shouting for Feral nerfs. Even we, the Feral community, understood how overpowered we were. With 5.4.0 also came S14, one of the most boring seasons for Feral Druids as of date, and the current season, S15, doesn’t look like it’ll improve upon that. As it turns out, hard-casting Cyclone just doesn’t cut it. It is:

a) Not working and thus very inefficient due to the high amounts of interrupts/stuns/silences currently in this game, even back in TBC it wasn’t working and there were less than half the amount of CCs around back then. Ferals currently have the worst CC in the game bar Death Knights, Enhancement Shamans (both who have other strengths instead of CC) and maybe Retribution Paladins (who are even weaker than Ferals overall currently, but that’s an entirely different story).

b) Not fun at all. We’re a melee spec, not a ranged class. Remember when Warriors had to stand still to use slam? Yeah they hated it and cried out for different fixes for ages, until it finally was changed. This is pretty much the same thing. In TBC Ferals were near useless when we had to hard-cast Cyclone and in a time where there were ten times as many gladiators (if not more) the number of legit Gladiator Ferals was barely two digits. With WotLK Ferals gained instant Cyclone on Predatory Swiftness, which completely altered Feral gameplay (for the better). Ferals grew accustomed to it, Ferals become viable and Ferals learned to love it. Then, abruptly, mid expansion five years later Blizzard decides to remove instant Cyclone as a thing completely.

The only spec (I might have missed some, but I did not count for example BM nerfs as MM is a perfectly viable alternative with the same role) to receive such nerfs was Feral. Patch 5.4.7 and S15 only further added to this by bug-fixing (and sadly also nerfing Ferals additionally) Heart of The Wild, I do however not blame Blizzard for this, a bug is a bug and it had to be fixed, however all the other nerfs from 5.4.0 were made while this bug was still in action, making Ferals look stronger than they should have been, and maybe resulting in the initial, in mine and many others opinion, over-nerf. What do I know? Either way these combined nerfs don’t make Ferals any stronger. Let’s get back on topic now.

Feral was the only spec which got its CC removed because Blizzard wants to lower CC (especially instant) in WoD. Starting early with Ferals made us the only spec which got our CC gutted in a world where CC reigns dominant. This leaves us with a massive imbalance until WoD launches, which is still many months away.

I’m going to bring Spec-representation into this, although I know very well that it is not an absolute measure of anything and merely a pointer in a direction, albeit maybe false. These numbers I’m about to show you however are not giving false pointers, and the pointers it gives are pretty obvious.

Currently Feral ranks as the 15th most played spec in EU & US (combined and Russia included) above 2200+. Almost all of those (49 as I’m writing this) players are Multi-Rank 1s, Rank 1s, Multi-gladiators, Gladiators or players with 2400+ experience of 3vs3 Arenas, with only very few exceptions (I counted 3). All of these Ferals play Junglecleave or Kittycleave, in both comps the Feral is piggybacking on much stronger classes, it’s not the Feral that’s actually bringing something to the table, it’s the Warrior or Hunter depending on comp. Comparing the Feral statistics to for example Warlocks (Affliction) statistics, it turns out our statistics are quite pathetic.

With only 18 viable PvP specs (I want to apologize in advance if I calculated incorrectly, but I did not count Fire, Arcane, Demo, Combat etc since there are still other specs for those classes that fulfill the same role) that leaves only a few other specs below us, and yes they might also need buffs, but that’s an entirely different issue and the buffs they need might be more complicated.

I think the following four different suggestions of different complexity, although in my humble opinion not too complex and quite easy to implement, would push Feral representation to at least seventh place. I believe it was only the combination of Cyclone on Predatory Swiftness, Treant Stun and Nature’s Swiftness that made Ferals overpowered. Also I want to stress that I mean for only one of these four suggestions be implemented, not all (also, it would be impossible since there would be discrepancy).

1)
• Predatory Swiftness once again has a chance to make Cyclone instant, free, and castable in all forms.
• Cyclone now has a 30 second cooldown for Feral Druids.

2)
• Predatory Swiftness once again has a chance to make “Cyclone!” instant, free, and castable in all forms.
• “Cyclone!” has returned and now has a 40 second cooldown and is only usable while the player has the buff Predatory Swiftness, consumes Predatory Swiftness.

3)
• Nature’s Swiftness is now an ability learned by Balance, Feral and Restoration Druids at level 30.

4)
• Nature’s Swiftness is once again a talent. It replaces Ysera’s Gift in the talent tree.

I’ll explain each option individually.

1) This choice basically returns us to 5.3 Cyclone with a 10 second longer cooldown (tweak numbers as you see fit).

2) This choice gives the ability Cyclone! (which was previously used by Predatory Swiftness to cyclone a target) a 40 second cooldown. Meaning you could only instant clone someone every 40 seconds with Predatory Swiftness, but you’d still be able to hard-cast Cyclones with no cooldown and use Predatory Swiftness on other abilities in the meantime (tweak numbers as you see fit).

3) This would give Ferals both Cenarion Ward/Ysera’s Gift and Nature’s Swiftness, for more info regarding Nature’s Swiftness see option 4.

4) This option would give Ferals, Restos and Balance the choice of taking NS again. For Ferals this would mean HotW+NS/HT, NS Hibernate and NS Cyclone would be possible again, for the cost of not taking either Renewal or Cenarion Ward. For Restos this choice would be more interesting aswell, before NS was a staple ability and everyone took it over Cenarion Ward, however now that people have learned to play with CW they might not make this choice so easily anymore. For Balance this would probably lead into always going HotW/NS.

I’m personally in favor of option 2 since it would (just like option 1 and 3) not impact other Druid specs, and it also gives us the versatility of hard-casting Cyclone (at the cost of an increased CD of 10 seconds compared to option 1) which is still a skill/depth thing, it’s just not viable as our only means of CC. Although I personally like option 2 I wouldn’t mind either of the other options being implemented instead.

HOWEVER, this is only a band aid fix until WoD, you can remove instant Cyclone again with WoD, I don’t care and I don’t think the Feral community will care either, but we want to be viable until then and we want to play just like we played for the longest portion of this expansion (we’ll see when WoD launches which part was longest) and the longest period of this games existence. When the WoD-prepatch arrives, you can remove it again. But we want to spend these last 5 (?) months of MoP gameplay playing just like all the other classes, and just like we did before, we want to play with CC.

Anyway I hope Holinka and the crew reads this and responds to our cries, Feral is not fun anymore. Please fix us up!

(Also sorry for the wall of text and I apologize for any misspellings or miscalculations etc.)

Yours sincerely,

Nátur-Al’Akir (EU)

Here is the EU-forum link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...88838?page=1#0

Which option do you like the most and why, or maybe you disagree completely?

[RippedLife]

I completly agree with you, but they won't change a thing before WoD bc they just would have to remove it again, and they said multiple times that they don't like to do major changes mid-season.

To WoD: everyone will be kinda like feral is my guess, with more hardcasted CC and less instants, will have to wait and see sadly. I really enjoy my feral right now but it's just to retarded to even try to cast a clone against even slighty smart people. You literally just lose pressure/get counter-cc if you try to clone, if i don't get one for sure i don't even try anymore.

[RelaZ]

I completly agree with you, but they won't change a thing before WoD bc they just would have to remove it again, and they said multiple times that they don't like to do major changes mid-season.

To WoD: everyone will be kinda like feral is my guess, with more hardcasted CC and less instants, will have to wait and see sadly. I really enjoy my feral right now but it's just to retarded to even try to cast a clone against even slighty smart people. You literally just lose pressure/get counter-cc if you try to clone, if i don't get one for sure i don't even try anymore.

If we unite we might convince Blizzard, who knows? It's worth a try either way. Implementing these changes would take max an hour for their programmers, the major thing is making the decision to implement one of the solutions.

Regarding WoD, I think everyone will be like feral too, but then again that's in the future and we're currently living in the present. Is a band aid fix until WoD really to much to ask? Especially when the fix is so obvious and easy to implement.

[Kojo]

If we unite we might convince Blizzard, who knows? It's worth a try either way. Implementing these changes would take max an hour for their programmers, the major thing is making the decision to implement one of the solutions.

Regarding WoD, I think everyone will be like feral too, but then again that's in the future and we're currently living in the present. Is a band aid fix until WoD really to much to ask? Especially when the fix is so obvious and easy to implement.

We've tried this uniting thing before, I suppose it worked in a sense that after they completely ignored our efforts and realized they screwed up months later they went back to the drawing board. Leaves one feeling kind of jaded sometimes.

[RelaZ]

We've tried this uniting thing before, I suppose it worked in a sense that after they completely ignored our efforts and realized they screwed up months later they went back to the drawing board. Leaves one feeling kind of jaded sometimes.

I know exactly what you mean and how you feel, but hey all you need to do is post saying which option you prefer and thus showing your support. It doesn't take all that much. As I said before, it's worth a try.

[Zstr]

the only thing I agree is Cyclone, but I'm also agree it was overpowevered, it could be just simply sloved changing it from physical to magic for dispel, and share diminishing returns with all others, however they gone easy way and removed it at all
Yesera's Gift is awesome, fuck this stupid NS talent it was useless for pvp, if you need it to cast cyclone you are fucking slow on delivering finishing moves to gain PS
and it's not that feral is bad, it's the other spec who is more reliable in pvp situation with target switching and fast burst, ferals don't have it so they are out, as MM hunter, demo locks, arcane mage, ret pallies, fury wars etc
and it was bad that our most portion of damage start to come from bleeds instead of direct attacks compare to wrath and cata, and those are no easy to maintain compare to priest's and lock's dk's dots which are mostly instant cast and from range
ferals saved mobility so they were best fc for last 2 season and was on top in arenas, but now with gear increase gaurdian is better against non dotter setups and feral still valiable to play but as high in areans but not as before,

you have 2.2 why you bother you get boosted by OP classes so be happy and keep calm

[RelaZ]

the only thing I agree is Cyclone, but I'm also agree it was overpowevered, it could be just simply sloved changing it from physical to magic for dispel, and share diminishing returns with all others, however they gone easy way and removed it at all
Yesera's Gift is awesome, fuck this stupid NS talent it was useless for pvp, if you need it to cast cyclone you are fucking slow on delivering finishing moves to gain PS
and it's not that feral is bad, it's the other spec who is more reliable in pvp situation with target switching and fast burst, ferals don't have it so they are out, as MM hunter, demo locks, arcane mage, ret pallies, fury wars etc
and it was bad that our most portion of damage start to come from bleeds instead of direct attacks compare to wrath and cata, and those are no easy to maintain compare to priest's and lock's dk's dots which are mostly instant cast and from range
ferals saved mobility so they were best fc for last 2 season and was on top in arenas, but now with gear increase gaurdian is better against non dotter setups and feral still valiable to play but as high in areans but not as before,

you have 2.2 why you bother you get boosted by OP classes so be happy and keep calm

Firstly my personal rating hasn't got much to do with the issue at hand.

Second of all if you believe NS is useless compared to Ysera's Gift you probably need to rethink. It's completely the opposite, as many others will tell you aswell.

Thirdly if other classes are more reliable in PvP situations thus making them better than Ferals, doesn't that automatically make Ferals worse, aka bad? (Also MM Hunters are very good this patch)

And to finish of sure Guardian is viable in RBGs but this thread concerns Ferals.

[Terahertz]

The problem with feral is that they have too much uptime for them to have so much CC as well as them being WAY too tanky. Currently theres no way to kill a feral because of the amount of defensives they have (talking arenas here). Cyclones were near impossible to counter, plus ferals had >3< stuns from treants PLUS bash AND maim made them gods of CC.

I'm fine giving ferals back the CC they used to have, as long as their damage is toned down as well as the uptime. IMO Stampeding Roar should be gutted and feral charge's CD should be increased. Then they can give back cyclone.

Also, hotw and cenarians ward 'nuff said.

[Deleted]

I already wrote it several times, will do here aswell.
The change is ok, just not right now. It seems to me they had too much weed in blizz HQ (and this is not an insult, I am totally fine with weed, it can just whisper stupid ideas in your ear) and decided to make a WoD change right now for ferals. Its the same reason they wanted to change charge stun to root, but rather did not and probably will do it in WoD. They said SOMETHING like this: "We like the change, but its too big of a change to do it right now."
Anyway in my opinion, they wont change it now to change it back in WoD (as they did for whining facerolling warriors) but all the changes in WoD will make this one on par with everything else.

[Raugnaut]

I disagree with you. Cyclone being unable to be used? Laughable, you just need to l2play. Cyclone has about the same cast time as Hex, Fear, Polymorph, Sleep(demo), Hibernate, Repentence/Turn Evil, other Cyclones, ect. If you CAN'T cast Cyclone at least once in a 20 second period, you are doing it wrong.

[Deleted]

I disagree with you. Cyclone being unable to be used? Laughable, you just need to l2play. Cyclone has about the same cast time as Hex, Fear, Polymorph, Sleep(demo), Hibernate, Repentence/Turn Evil, other Cyclones, ect. If you CAN'T cast Cyclone at least once in a 20 second period, you are doing it wrong.

Yeah, also this.
I think ppl feel like cast time on something for meele is unnatural, and were so used to be able to insta-cast it that they arent used to it. *They are just too ignorant, but shush so then cant hear it*

[gestapo]

Hey there everyone, I just made a post on the EU forums regarding Ferals current position in this game. If you agree with what I wrote, spread it (US forums?), if you don't agree, spread it anyway!



Here is the EU-forum link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...88838?page=1#0
1)
• Predatory Swiftness once again has a chance to make Cyclone instant, free, and castable in all forms.
• Cyclone now has a 30 second cooldown for Feral Druids.
2)
• Predatory Swiftness once again has a chance to make “Cyclone!” instant, free, and castable in all forms.
• “Cyclone!” has returned and now has a 40 second cooldown and is only usable while the player has the buff Predatory Swiftness, consumes Predatory Swiftness.
3)
• Nature’s Swiftness is now an ability learned by Balance, Feral and Restoration Druids at level 30.
4)
• Nature’s Swiftness is once again a talent. It replaces Ysera’s Gift in the talent tree.
I’ll explain each option individually.

1) This choice basically returns us to 5.3 Cyclone with a 10 second longer cooldown (tweak numbers as you see fit).

2) This choice gives the ability Cyclone! (which was previously used by Predatory Swiftness to cyclone a target) a 40 second cooldown. Meaning you could only instant clone someone every 40 seconds with Predatory Swiftness, but you’d still be able to hard-cast Cyclones with no cooldown and use Predatory Swiftness on other abilities in the meantime (tweak numbers as you see fit).

3) This would give Ferals both Cenarion Ward/Ysera’s Gift and Nature’s Swiftness, for more info regarding Nature’s Swiftness see option 4.

4) This option would give Ferals, Restos and Balance the choice of taking NS again. For Ferals this would mean HotW+NS/HT, NS Hibernate and NS Cyclone would be possible again, for the cost of not taking either Renewal or Cenarion Ward. For Restos this choice would be more interesting aswell, before NS was a staple ability and everyone took it over Cenarion Ward, however now that people have learned to play with CW they might not make this choice so easily anymore. For Balance this would probably lead into always going HotW/NS.

Which option do you like the most and why, or maybe you disagree completely?

I'm actually going to say I don't like any of the options simply because Blizzard is pig-headed and is not likely to give us instant CC again. I don't agree with it and I think it's ridiculous that Feral lost it's instant CC when everyone else kept theirs. They should have axed all instant CC or left Feral as is until WoD.

That being said, Blizzard won't give instant CC back. Option 3 is probably the best of what you listed, but I'm actually going to say just let Feral cast cyclone in forms so they don't have to shift out. When PS is active allow the cyclone to be cast in forms while moving.

- - - Updated - - -

To WoD: everyone will be kinda like feral is my guess, with more hardcasted CC and less instants, will have to wait and see sadly. I really enjoy my feral right now but it's just to retarded to even try to cast a clone against even slighty smart people. You literally just lose pressure/get counter-cc if you try to clone, if i don't get one for sure i don't even try anymore.

I really hope a lot of others lose instant CC too especially more melee.

- - - Updated - - -

the only thing I agree is Cyclone, but I'm also agree it was overpowevered, it could be just simply sloved changing it from physical to magic for dispel, and share diminishing returns with all others, however they gone easy way and removed it at all
Yesera's Gift is awesome, fuck this stupid NS talent it was useless for pvp, if you need it to cast cyclone you are fucking slow on delivering finishing moves to gain PS
and it's not that feral is bad, it's the other spec who is more reliable in pvp situation with target switching and fast burst, ferals don't have it so they are out, as MM hunter, demo locks, arcane mage, ret pallies, fury wars etc
and it was bad that our most portion of damage start to come from bleeds instead of direct attacks compare to wrath and cata, and those are no easy to maintain compare to priest's and lock's dk's dots which are mostly instant cast and from range
ferals saved mobility so they were best fc for last 2 season and was on top in arenas, but now with gear increase gaurdian is better against non dotter setups and feral still valiable to play but as high in areans but not as before,

you have 2.2 why you bother you get boosted by OP classes so be happy and keep calm

NS was great, but I don't think we'll be getting it back. They're removing PoM Poly as well, for e.g. which is a good thing. But right now it's extremely difficult to get a cyclone off. Overall i think WoD is looking good.

- - - Updated - - -

The problem with feral is that they have too much uptime for them to have so much CC as well as them being WAY too tanky. Currently theres no way to kill a feral because of the amount of defensives they have (talking arenas here). Cyclones were near impossible to counter, plus ferals had >3< stuns from treants PLUS bash AND maim made them gods of CC.

I'm fine giving ferals back the CC they used to have, as long as their damage is toned down as well as the uptime. IMO Stampeding Roar should be gutted and feral charge's CD should be increased. Then they can give back cyclone.

Also, hotw and cenarians ward 'nuff said.

I actually think Feral is close to being fine where they are, it's just that other classes are much better options because they bring instant and more reliable CC. In their current form cyclone is very easy to counter (assuming you meant instant cyclones - PS could be dispelled but yes, it was still difficult to stop as 'train the feral' was the only viable strat).

Hotw / CW is fine.

- - - Updated - - -

I disagree with you. Cyclone being unable to be used? Laughable, you just need to l2play. Cyclone has about the same cast time as Hex, Fear, Polymorph, Sleep(demo), Hibernate, Repentence/Turn Evil, other Cyclones, ect. If you CAN'T cast Cyclone at least once in a 20 second period, you are doing it wrong.

Unable is a stretch but right now it's not even worth casting cyclone. You can't compare it to Enhance hex because they can have it instant cast or have the cast time reduced with Maelstrom Weapon. Also you don't seem to realize that fear, poly, sheep are all caster CC - OP is talking about a melee spec.

[gestapo]

Well as we are on the topic of melee specs, let me make this perfectly clear. Enhancement Hex has a 45 second CD and is dispellable by multiple classes. You can get it down to 35 second IF you glyph it. So tell me again, how does comparing Cyclone with Hex work for you?

As we're on the topic of 'cyclone being unable to be used' as quoted by Raugnaut (who quoted the OP), let me make this perfectly clear. Enhancement Hex is easier to get off because of MW, regardless of the cooldown. On the question of how difficult it is to land, hex is easier.

However, Hex is arguably worse (if you can get a cyclone off) because it can be dispelled. In it's current form i'd gladly take an instant, dispellable hex on a 45s cd vs cyclone having to be hard cast, 20 yard range AND having to pop out of form and opening yourself up to more CC and dmg. A feral in caster form is probably the squishiest thing ever.

[RelaZ]

I disagree with you. Cyclone being unable to be used? Laughable, you just need to l2play. Cyclone has about the same cast time as Hex, Fear, Polymorph, Sleep(demo), Hibernate, Repentence/Turn Evil, other Cyclones, ect. If you CAN'T cast Cyclone at least once in a 20 second period, you are doing it wrong.

Getting a Hard-casted Cyclone of atleast once every 20 seconds in high rated Arenas wont happen. You could barely squeeze in two clones in 20 seconds prior to 5.3 and back then we had Cyclone on Predatory Swiftness with no CD. We must be playing two different games if you really think consistently pulling of 3 hard-casted Cyclones/minute is so easily doable in the current game environment, especially if you're playing with Mighty Bash and not Disorienting Roar, which would make 2 clones per minute doable.

If it was so easy to get hardcasted CC off dont you think we would see more CC coming from warlocks / mages?

Well as we are on the topic of melee specs, let me make this perfectly clear. Enhancement Hex has a 45 second CD and is dispellable by multiple classes. You can get it down to 35 second IF you glyph it. So tell me again, how does comparing Cyclone with Hex work for you?

Cyclone had a 20sec CD in 5.3, the current suggestion would up it to 30-40 (as I wrote in the original post, all numbers are tweakable to your own, and most importantly blizzards liking). It wouldn't need to be 30-40 it could be 1min CD.

Imagine if Blizzard had decided to remove only Enhance instant CC instead of Ferals, you would have felt gutted too.

[gestapo]

Getting a Hard-casted Cyclone of atleast once every 20 seconds in high rated Arenas wont happen. You could barely squeeze in two clones in 20 seconds prior to 5.3 and back then we had Cyclone on Predatory Swiftness with no CD. We must be playing two different games if you really think consistently pulling of 3 hard-casted Cyclones/minute is so easily doable in the current game environment, especially if you're playing with Mighty Bash and not Disorienting Roar, which would make 2 clones per minute doable.

If it was so easy to get hardcasted CC off dont you think we would see more CC coming from warlocks / mages?



Cyclone had a 20sec CD in 5.3, the current suggestion would up it to 30-40 (as I wrote in the original post, all numbers are tweakable to your own, and most importantly blizzards liking). It wouldn't need to be 30-40 it could be 1min CD.

Imagine if Blizzard had decided to remove only Enhance instant CC instead of Ferals, you would have felt gutted too.

Don't bother. People that haven't played Feral for more than a season will not understand. Anyway, in regards to your OP I'm going to reiterate the same thing I said in my first reply. I'd love to have insta clone back even on a 40s CD but it's not happening. I don't mind what Blizzard did, but it's ridiculous that they did it ONLY to Feral and left the spec gimped for what is going to be one the longest seasons in pvp history. That's just asinine.

We're stuck with this now. You know Blizzard. They won't make changes bringing buffs back to Feral on a short term basis. It's just not that popular enough a spec for them to care about. It's a different story if it was a highly played spec like Frost Mage, Arms Warrior, Affliction Lock, etc.

The only thing we can do now is to push your ideas across to the WoD beta and hope we get something implemented there. It's all up for grabs so I'm going to be an eternal optimist. Hopefully we get a rework of sorts, a new lvl 100 talent, and other stuff.

[RelaZ]

Don't bother. People that haven't played Feral for more than a season will not understand. Anyway, in regards to your OP I'm going to reiterate the same thing I said in my first reply. I'd love to have insta clone back even on a 40s CD but it's not happening. I don't mind what Blizzard did, but it's ridiculous that they did it ONLY to Feral and left the spec gimped for what is going to be one the longest seasons in pvp history. That's just asinine.

We're stuck with this now. You know Blizzard. They won't make changes bringing buffs back to Feral on a short term basis. It's just not that popular enough a spec for them to care about. It's a different story if it was a highly played spec like Frost Mage, Arms Warrior, Affliction Lock, etc.

The only thing we can do now is to push your ideas across to the WoD beta and hope we get something implemented there. It's all up for grabs so I'm going to be an eternal optimist. Hopefully we get a rework of sorts, a new lvl 100 talent, and other stuff.

Be an eternal optimist now instead and lets hope Blizzard does something about the issue now instead of atleast five months later!

[Arielle]

I'm not sure what the point of this is, since there won't be another season after the current one before Warlords. Further, all instant-CC is getting killed in Warlords anyway which makes any of these changes completely meaningless.

Feral obviously needs some help due to how easy they are to train outside of CDs, but it's impossible to know what changes should be made without having actually played l100 PvP.

[RelaZ]

I'm not sure what the point of this is, since there won't be another season after the current one before Warlords. Further, all instant-CC is getting killed in Warlords anyway which makes any of these changes completely meaningless.

Feral obviously needs some help due to how easy they are to train outside of CDs, but it's impossible to know what changes should be made without having actually played l100 PvP.

The point of this is simple, mid season changes. Blizzard shouldn't stop fixing/changing/patching their game just because in 5 months (or more) we'll be getting WoD. Also this has nothing to do with level 100 PvP.

[GKLeatherCraft]

Ok, couple things that hit me, first, You don't seem to have much of an understanding of specs viability, One that popped out at me, Fire mage, just because "another spec can fill that role" in no way at all, means the others are not viable, fire is very viable.

I also think you have some learning to play issues, Cyclone is still very easy to use, We spent most of the time not being able to free cast it any way, It's hardly going ot be a problem now it's gone again, Feral itself is amazing in PvP, I do a lot of W-PvP with a Feral friend of mine, (I normally play Guardian, or resto, or my fire mage(the horror) Yet he gets off a lot of cyclones, and still takes on 2/3 people easily, me and him fought 11 horde, Him feral, me Guardian, for like 17minutes, before we died, and we killed those Horde many times over, they just kept ressing, Lol, and they had a healer.

My point is Cyclone is fine, calling it unusable because of a cast time is just stupid, You might aswell say that every spell with a cast time is unusable, Just fake cast it first, most people will throw their interrupt, then you get an easy cast, one example, anyway.

[RelaZ]

Ok, couple things that hit me, first, You don't seem to have much of an understanding of specs viability, One that popped out at me, Fire mage, just because "another spec can fill that role" in no way at all, means the others are not viable, fire is very viable.

I never mentioned Fire in my post nor did I say Fire wasn't viable, nor did I say that just because Frost was viable Fire can't be. All I might have hinted at was that due to the fact that Frost fills the same role as Fire for Mages, both specs do not need to be viable.

I also think you have some learning to play issues, Cyclone is still very easy to use, We spent most of the time not being able to free cast it any way, It's hardly going ot be a problem now it's gone again, Feral itself is amazing in PvP, I do a lot of W-PvP with a Feral friend of mine, (I normally play Guardian, or resto, or my fire mage(the horror) Yet he gets off a lot of cyclones, and still takes on 2/3 people easily, me and him fought 11 horde, Him feral, me Guardian, for like 17minutes, before we died, and we killed those Horde many times over, they just kept ressing, Lol, and they had a healer.

We did spend most of the time being able to instant cast it you mean, right? We gained Cyclone in TBC and in WotLK it was made instant, thus making it instant throughout almost two and a half expansions and only casted in one and a half expansion.

Regarding your wPvP adventures you're either exaggerating or your opponents are very bad. A Feral should not be getting a single Cyclone of ever against 11 opponents, if you believe anything else you're delusional I'm afraid. Let alone surviving for 17 minutes just shows what PvE gear and tanks has done to wPvP, even though I imagine your opponents were very, very bad.

If you ever enter highlevel rated PvP I think you'll find getting hardcasted Cyclones of of is quite hard and is not going to happen very often.

My point is Cyclone is fine, calling it unusable because of a cast time is just stupid, You might aswell say that every spell with a cast time is unusable, Just fake cast it first, most people will throw their interrupt, then you get an easy cast, one example, anyway.

Getting Cyclones of against three competent players who do not fall for fake interrupts (skilled players don't) is quite hard, almost impossible sometimes, especially considering there are three of them who can prevent you, at least. Also, if you fail getting it off you lose a large amount of pressure due to not actually being on a target while trying to clone. Once again, if you actually enter rated 3v3 arena or even RBGs at a high level I think you'll notice that Cyclone is hard to get off, and rarely pays of very well.

Sorry to say, but you sound like you've never entered any competitive PvP in WoW at all. Either that or we're playing two separate games.

Cyclone in its current form, with it's current environment is not fine.