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  1. #1

    State of Enhancement in WoD

    I personally loved our many sources of damage, but to lose that part of our identity isnt a huge loss. Here's my question, did we just receive enourmous buffs? Just reading those alpha notes, it seems like if these changes were to hit live we'd be massively overpowered. Which'll be nice for the time between 6.0 drop and WoD release, but how do you think our future looks? Looking to update this thread with some number crunching when I get a chance.

  2. #2
    Dreadlord Turbotef's Avatar
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    I think enhance shaman will be a very good place still and will continue to play mine unless something "odd" happens....

    I have a warrior/rogue/monk on stand by just in case.
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  3. #3
    Thats my current beef. I think both WW monks and Rogues are quite fun, and their insane amount of defensive CD's make them extremely strong. Rogues, historically, have always been great melees, and WW's great mobility makes a good raider lose little to no uptime. I love my shaman, but I'm not sure if I'd feel comfortable playing something thats weaker than other classes. (I raid HC and dont want my preferences to get ahead of my performance.)

    Also, anyone know what the deal will be with your CD stacking? I saw some blue posts regarding it but no real answer. A non-answer in my book = we get to keep our cds, and with the addition of another elemental we're looking at always being able to have an elemental up. I think deciding in what order is best to use which elementals, and converting ascendance into a resourced spec, like demonology would make it extremely fun, viable, and not CD-stacky.

  4. #4
    In a nutshell all of our damage sources will deal more damage, except LS, since Static Shock is gone.

    Single target received three bigger changes that give us more unpredictability prio-wise: doubled msw spell damage, LL cd refreshes through FS dot ticks, and EtoE procs allowing to use SS/LL/FN/Shock twice before cd triggers. Certainly more burst potential than now, and more RNG-based esp considering WF losing its icd.

    Aoe mechanics did not change, but CL damage will be doubled through msw. MT is still there, unchanged. LL/FN works like it does now, but with refresh procs LL will be more often avaiable, so holding on to LL for aoe wont be happening as often. There's also Spew Lava to further enhance aoe.

    In terms strictly of how we apply damage, I am VERY happy with what I've seen. What I still miss are especially news about our other stuff:
    1) Will there be changes to totems? Capacitor is still blergh, being tied to an elemental bracket is still annoying (one per bracket), EBT being destroyable, GT being inferior to spellreflect etc..
    2) There's still those two mandatory glyphs, LS and HS out there, only that they're learned through leveling now, which doesn't do anything except save some gold. There's still to few customisation options in terms of pvp glyphs.
    3) Will Hex be instant baseline now with it no longer being influenced by MSW? If not, that's a big nerf for enh pvp, and enh was already among the worst in terms of CC. Hex being cut out of MSW meanwhile also finally allows for our dmg/heal to be less hindered by having to hold off and spend charges for Hex, which is awesome.
    4) Mobility still isn't where I'd like it to be. UF:FB still wont be used/avaiable in pvp as FT seems to retain its vastly superior position as our offhand imbue, not mentioning EB doing double damage then(!). Why make FB enh only if we still wont use it? If they did something about 2), we'd also have two free glyph slots which could be filled with Spirit Walk (60s down to 45sec cd) and GW glyph to improve our mobility nicely.
    4) What will replace UF:WF's current effect, now that Static Shock is gone? Will we retain LS procs on auto hits, but under a different name? A shame that LS seems kinda redundant now, as they could've just buffed SS instead of that new effect on LS.
    5) Will there be a new GW model?!1?!1 :P
    6) Will 100% buffed damage be enough for Feral Spirits to feel dangerous?
    7) With removal of HTT for enh/ele, and the nerf on AG, how will be enhance's survivability without Storm Elemental Totem? Will we be forced to take it in pvp (Not that Spew Lava will be taken there, and Shocking Lava looking a bit meh)?
    Last edited by Omanley; 2014-04-10 at 09:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  5. #5
    -Hex probably wont become instant becous one of WoD main PvP praioritys is to reduce instant CCs

    -UF:WF talent will increase multistrike by 10%

    Overal state of Enh looks quite good we get alot of cool changes and some damage buffs but alsow big nerf of burst

    -Ascendance no longer scale with master now we do phisical damage and ignore armor on Ascendance

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by kubuntu View Post
    -Hex probably wont become instant becous one of WoD main PvP praioritys is to reduce instant CCs

    -UF:WF talent will increase multistrike by 10%

    Overal state of Enh looks quite good we get alot of cool changes and some damage buffs but alsow big nerf of burst

    -Ascendance no longer scale with master now we do phisical damage and ignore armor on Ascendance
    AHHH where's that ascendance info from? That's aHUGE Nerf. And depending on how haste, wf, and multistrike interact, are we looking at a huge drop in the value of mastery?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by kubuntu View Post
    -Hex probably wont become instant becous one of WoD main PvP praioritys is to reduce instant CCs
    -UF:WF talent will increase multistrike by 10%
    Ah, right. I think I've heard about the latter before. Tbh I like the current one more. Sad to see LS become even more boring :-/ (not that we dont get several nice improvements, but still...)

    As for Hex: You're right about those plans, but Sap, Intimidating Shout, Blind, Traps etc. will still be instant, no? Hex has a cooldown like those, anbd should've been either instant as those others, or without cooldown, like ret with repentance.
    I get the idea behind not allowing spammable CC like poly, cyclone, fear and so forth being instant under certain situations, because stuff like interrupts/spell reflect are supposed to be counters to the advantage of no cd, but Hex doesn't have ANY advantages. It has a cast time, it has a cooldown, it does not take the target's control, it does not work against any druid spec and can be removed by any druid spec (decurse class-wide) where poly can be only removed by druids that chose resto, there's no real redeeming point about Hex. MSW allowing it to be instant was the least to be expected tbh. If they just remove that w/o handing out a compensation of any way, Hex will by far the worst CC EVER (except for CPT maybe, which, surprise surprise, is a shaman skill as well, and our only other anti-player cc on top of that).
    Last edited by Omanley; 2014-04-11 at 05:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  8. #8
    I'm switching from Ele to Enhance for WoD if that says anything. Enhance will have more mobility and dmg, so why not. They've got to fix something extremely nice for me to stay Ele.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    In a nutshell all of our damage sources will deal more damage, except LS, since Static Shock is gone.

    Single target received three bigger changes that give us more unpredictability prio-wise: doubled msw spell damage, LL cd refreshes through FS dot ticks, and EtoE procs allowing to use SS/LL/FN/Shock twice before cd triggers. Certainly more burst potential than now, and more RNG-based esp considering WF losing its icd.

    Aoe mechanics did not change, but CL damage will be doubled through msw. MT is still there, unchanged. LL/FN works like it does now, but with refresh procs LL will be more often avaiable, so holding on to LL for aoe wont be happening as often. There's also Spew Lava to further enhance aoe.

    In terms strictly of how we apply damage, I am VERY happy with what I've seen. What I still miss are especially news about our other stuff:
    1) Will there be changes to totems? Capacitor is still blergh, being tied to an elemental bracket is still annoying (one per bracket), EBT being destroyable, GT being inferior to spellreflect etc..
    2) There's still those two mandatory glyphs, LS and HS out there, only that they're learned through leveling now, which doesn't do anything except save some gold. There's still to few customisation options in terms of pvp glyphs.
    3) Will Hex be instant baseline now with it no longer being influenced by MSW? If not, that's a big nerf for enh pvp, and enh was already among the worst in terms of CC. Hex being cut out of MSW meanwhile also finally allows for our dmg/heal to be less hindered by having to hold off and spend charges for Hex, which is awesome.
    4) Mobility still isn't where I'd like it to be. UF:FB still wont be used/avaiable in pvp as FT seems to retain its vastly superior position as our offhand imbue, not mentioning EB doing double damage then(!). Why make FB enh only if we still wont use it? If they did something about 2), we'd also have two free glyph slots which could be filled with Spirit Walk (60s down to 45sec cd) and GW glyph to improve our mobility nicely.
    4) What will replace UF:WF's current effect, now that Static Shock is gone? Will we retain LS procs on auto hits, but under a different name? A shame that LS seems kinda redundant now, as they could've just buffed SS instead of that new effect on LS.
    5) Will there be a new GW model?!1?!1 :P
    6) Will 100% buffed damage be enough for Feral Spirits to feel dangerous?
    7) With removal of HTT for enh/ele, and the nerf on AG, how will be enhance's survivability without Storm Elemental Totem? Will we be forced to take it in pvp (Not that Spew Lava will be taken there, and Shocking Lava looking a bit meh)?
    As far as Im concerned. We need a passive that reduces that damage we take. Having to rely on Defensive CD's and healing all the time just makes us vulnerable to stun's and other cc's. I'f we get should a passive the will be the icing on the cake for me. The rest is the best news I've see for Enhancement's for a long time.
    Power never corrupts but it brings out ones true self. Think about that for a moment.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    Ah, right. I think I've heard about the latter before. Tbh I like the current one more. Sad to see LS become even more boring :-/ (not that we dont get several nice improvements, but still...)

    As for Hex: You're right about those plans, but Sap, Intimidating Shout, Blind, Traps etc. will still be instant, no? Hex has a cooldown like those, anbd should've been either instant as those others, or without cooldown, like ret with repentance.
    I get the idea behind not allowing spammable CC like poly, cyclone, fear and so forth being instant under certain situations, because stuff like interrupts/spell reflect are supposed to be counters to the advantage of no cd, but Hex doesn't have ANY advantages. It has a cast time, it has a cooldown, it does not take the target's control, it does not work against any druid spec and can be removed by any druid spec (decurse class-wide) where poly can be only removed by druids that chose resto, there's no real redeeming point about Hex. MSW allowing it to be instant was the least to be expected tbh. If they just remove that w/o handing out a compensation of any way, Hex will by far the worst CC EVER (except for CPT maybe, which, surprise surprise, is a shaman skill as well, and our only over anti-player cc on top of that).
    Ist Alpha so meny things can change , jsut overal intention is to nerf instant CC , for example Priest PS is now talent its styl instant but its CD is increased by 15 sec
    so they nerf CC by meny ways increase CD, no more instant, reduce duration or simple remove

    Hex on cast will be ok in my opinion but only if we will get push back protection becous 3 sec cast when you are tuneled is kinda sux

  11. #11
    I just don't like the idea of unleash element only providing buffs now. Unlike paladin's seals, UE has poor interactions and short buff time. Somehow blizz is going to expect all shaman to press that button on CD. Since it's now a performance CD, our numbers are going to be adjusted accordingly.

  12. #12
    I'm a little concerned with Enhancement as it stands. They may have removed sources of damage but we've got yet another button to press with frost shock being shoe horned in somewhere. Shamans also lost our unique raid buff - stormlash totem. Searing totem may just be for damage now but there are still fights in MoP where it spazzes out or has to be recast in order to work.

    I know LL is no longer bound to it, which is excellent, but with fewer sources of damage and its DD buff, it'll still hurt when it bugs out.

    On the plus side, hooray for our AoE. Looks like the perks for flame shock and Lava Lash are finally making our AoE woes a thing of the past. Yes it's still clunky but now it'll pay off for us to AoE whenever possible for the LL refresh.

    Windfury lost its internal CD but got a huge nerf to its damage, so its still not an exciting damage source. With all the new secondary stats like multistrike I think it'll be horrid to balance, leading to potentially enormous peaks and troughs throughout the xpac.

    Spirit wolves lost spirit bite but gained 100% damage perk, not sure why that is, give with one hand and take with the other. Maybe with the item squish the wolves might be stronger.

    In short, I loved our many sources of damage in MoP, and now we lack that I'd like to see our remaining ones have a bit of love in more than just pure numbers. I'd like to see windfury and spirit wolves regain their wow-factor.

  13. #13
    In my opinion, spirit wolves are cool, but they're pretty plain at the same time. They chase your target around, chomp them and heal you. No pet bar, no second thought, just a one button and go. I would much rather have some sort of management to perform, with perhaps two pets, one elemental and the wolves, and then a resource, than to just plow through my rotation like a good boy.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeonii View Post
    I'm switching from Ele to Enhance for WoD if that says anything. Enhance will have more mobility and dmg, so why not. They've got to fix something extremely nice for me to stay Ele.
    I don't know about more damage, but I am doing the same thing in WoD. I've been looking for a reason to switch to Enh for a long time. This banter in particular made me excited:

    should we expect any big changes to the Enh Shaman rotation / priorities?
    Kind of. Enh suffers from a major case of "thirty-different-damage-sources-so-all-of-them-feel-meh"-itis. (Celestalon)
    We're generally happy with Enh's gameplay (which is whack-a-mole at base skill levels, but does have a high skill cap). (Celestalon)
    However, we're going to try to maintain that gameplay, while removing or combining many of the damage sources. (Celestalon)
    For example, compare http://t.co/AiVKyUn9sS (12 dmg sources)... to http://t.co/dPrdUe81JC (34 dmg sources). Are they all... (Celestalon)
    ...really needed? Can we combine some? Some are MH vs OH of the same strike, so that's naturally inflating things, but even... (Celestalon)
    ...still, that's a ton. Anyway, point is, we're going to try to maintain the same gameplay, but fewer, more impactful sources. (Celestalon)
    That's the same mentality for most classes moving into WoD, right? Maintaining gameplay, more impactful choices?
    Yes, but I think Enhancement exemplifies that most of anyone.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Refridge View Post
    I would much rather have some sort of management to perform, with perhaps two pets, one elemental and the wolves, and then a resource, than to just plow through my rotation like a good boy.
    The day I have to manage pets is the day I leave my Shaman.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Futhark View Post
    I don't know about more damage, but I am doing the same thing in WoD. I've been looking for a reason to switch to Enh for a long time. This banter in particular made me excited:



    - - - Updated - - -



    The day I have to manage pets is the day I leave my Shaman.
    I can appreciate that, a little. And I know managing the Earth Elemental buff isnt really pet management , but we used to manage wolves, now we have a pet bar for elementals, and we're getting another elemental (which I think is awesome). I'd feel more like a shaman summoning and managing spirit wolves and super duper elementals than weaving frost shock. If being Iconic is important to blizzard, such that they'd sacrifice abilities for certain specs, GoaK for Ret for instance, then enhance needs an overhaul.

  16. #16
    I never noticed that our dmg came from multiple sources and until that post and patch notes I never thought of something like that being "bad". Some times there are small things like that you just miss I guess.

    Overall it seems to me that we will press just about the same amount of buttons though that we do today. I guess that´s more of a technical fix than an actual gameplay change. The only good thing I can think of is being able to unleash without a target... which can be good or bad depending on the situation XD.

    I still think we need 1 more melee attack. Primal Strike could become an execute at max level or something just to complete that. Frost shock change feels interesting but maybe they should rename it since it does no dmg. Also, what will earth shock do now? it doesn´t provide a debuff now I think.

    Honestly, I think this is just stage 1 of the pruning process, I bet a few more things will get axed next go around.

  17. #17
    I'm fairly unhappy that Enhance isn't getting the ret/DPS warrior treatment causing Haste to shorten the melee GCD and melee cooldowns. It would be a godsend and finally kill all that MW3_LB slam-casting nonsense.

    At a similar higher-level vein, I've been campaigning for Enhance to get a real resource for the past 2 expansion packs. Paladins and Hunters got a resource in Cataclysm. Enhance is now the only spec that completely lacks a resource. I don't find cooldown-constrained gameplay to be nearly as fun as managing a real resource. (Before anyone says it, Enhance mana is infinite, and Maelstrom Weapon stacks automatically on autoattacks and is not a real resource.)

    Elemental actually lacks a resource too, but for some reason I don't find that nearly as offputting as Enhance. Maybe it's because Elemental has LB as a filler, and cast times are affected by haste.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2014-04-11 at 09:26 PM.

  18. #18
    Brewmaster Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    I'm fairly unhappy that Enhance isn't getting the ret/DPS warrior treatment causing Haste to shorten the melee GCD and melee cooldowns. It would be a godsend and finally kill all that MW3_LB slam-casting nonsense.

    At a similar higher-level vein, I've been campaigning for Enhance to get a real resource for the past 2 expansion packs. Paladins and Hunters got a resource in Cataclysm. Enhance is now the only spec that completely lacks a resource. I don't find cooldown-constrained gameplay to be nearly as fun as managing a real resource. (Before anyone says it, Enhance mana is infinite, and Maelstrom Weapon stacks automatically on autoattacks and is not a real resource.)

    Elemental actually lacks a resource too, but for some reason I don't find that nearly as offputting as Enhance. Maybe it's because Elemental has LB as a filler, and cast times are affected by haste.
    Sounds like you're just not that into enhancement.
    A typical raid leader command would be something like "Yo Scrub, why don't you YOLO 1337 yards to the left because the boss's Swag is about to hit us in 3 seconds".
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuFanta View Post
    Oh my god, a company tries to put some lore flavor into the game mechanics, all is lost, whatever shall we do without a whole 1% of crit or haste.
    Quick, call Ukraine and Russia, let them know to put their conflict on standby because Touch of Elune is BULLSHIT!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    Sounds like you're just not that into enhancement.
    Is that so? You really think someone uninterested would have written that aspergeristically intricate post on the spec's mechanics?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Is that so? You really think someone uninterested would have written that aspergeristically intricate post on the spec's mechanics?
    "aspergeristically"

    Stop swearing at us!?!?!??! hehe

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