Is PVP at its worst in Wow history?

[Super Kami Dende]

Spec Viability is at it's best.
CC use and imbalance between Healers/Ranged/Melee is at it's worst.

[Gumboy]

Quite the opposite. Every single class in the game has at least one viable spec for arena (some even have 2/3). That indicates greater balance than ever before. That being said, the amount of CC in the game right now is incredibly frustrating and could use some pruning.

Spec's being viable has nothing to do with pvp being good or bad. The actual game play is hideous.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, that depends.

1. Did you play Warrior/Druid in S1, S2 or S3? Then the answer is "yes".
2. Did you play anything other than Warrior/Druid in S1, S2 or S3? Then the answer is a resounding "no".

S5 was much worse then any of those. I ran Lock/Shadow priest 2s at least the first two seasons and had a great time

[Deleted]

I think the Holinka guy does a good job. He communicates well and takes players' opinions into consideration without overdoing it. From a spec viability point of view this season is probably one of the best. You can pick any class and almost any spec and have fun in PVP in some way.

What currently lacks is, in my opinion:

1. Resilience/battle fatigue/pvp power are a mess
Take for example "Death pact"
- in pve gear, pve combat heals for 50%
- in pve gear, pvp combat heals for 20%
- in pvp gear, pve combat heals for 75%
- in pvp gear, pvp combat heals for 30%

2. CC is too much and can be frustrating

Apart from these 2 problems, I think they improved PVP greatly over the course of this expansion and it would not be fair to say PVP is currently at its worst.

[Gumboy]

The problem I have with Holinka is the idiotic things he says on twitter sometimes. Like they make absolutetly no sense. Before this season started, pretty much everyone knew/thought resto shamans were going to be by far the best healers. so after there rep is much higher, he says it is because nothing changed, and that proves that they do not have to make changes to effect rep, when THERE WERE CHANGES THAT EFFECTED THINGS. lol <.<

[Illana]

not the worst (legendaries in arena, WHO THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA) and not the best.

Also that hunter who said he can do 40% of a warriors hp in aimed+chimera combo: never happening in arena against a warrior who isn't a spasti (ie not always in def stance when he's taking damage). My aimed shots against warriors typically do about 40k crits, if that.

[Deleted]

End of expansion is end of expansion! Why are people surprised by this fact every fucking end of an expansion?

[Zstr]

Yes, you can thank Brain Holinka for that,
I'm neither looking promising at WoD pvp, coz that retard is still in charge for it...

[Deleted]

Have played since tbc and I think it has never been more fun then what it is today, ye there is lots of cc and as a healer it can get on my nervs from time to time. But it is all about planning about how to play with your teammates. Doing alot of 3vs3 and 5vs5 this season

[Bitethe]

Have played since tbc and I think it has never been more fun then what it is today, ye there is lots of cc and as a healer it can get on my nervs from time to time. But it is all about planning about how to play with your teammates. Doing alot of 3vs3 and 5vs5 this season

Likewise..

[Dnusha]

It's not. MoP pvp balance is pretty good imo.

[Leakage]

not the worst (legendaries in arena, WHO THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA) and not the best.

Also that hunter who said he can do 40% of a warriors hp in aimed+chimera combo: never happening in arena against a warrior who isn't a spasti (ie not always in def stance when he's taking damage). My aimed shots against warriors typically do about 40k crits, if that.

I'm only talking about the opener when some wars aren't in D stance yet.

Also, # of viable specs doesn't mean pvp is the best it's ever been. It means it's balanced. They aren't the same. The gameplay itself is terrible, despite everything being "balanced".

[DeicideUH]

Except for CC's and a few specific cases, MoP has been very good at balancing PvP.

I don't even have my prideful weapon but I'm able to do 40% of a warriors health in one global with a aimed + chimera combo.

Then you are fighting very undergeared warriors, because I do have my Prideful Weapon and a Aimed + Chimera against a good player barely puts their health down by 30%

[Ravenyx]

I would say PvP is at a low point for sure. I started this season with enthusiasm, knowing I would be in with a good shot for pushing some rating and perhaps some titles. This far in I now can't be bothered to do arena, capping has become a chore. I am surrounded by what seems like terrible players and I don't understand why. The balance isn't so bad tbh - its the social problems of having massive amounts of bad players. My server (Stormscale EU - By any standards known for PvP) seems to be full of people running Flex. Nobody cares about PvP anymore. If it wasn't for O queue I don't know how I would cap each week.

Sure I can run 2v2 as Warrior/H Pally or Warrior/Healing Monk and win 75% of my games. The fact that capping process now takes so much time - with many 10-15 minute matches does my head in.

I find myself just farming bloody coins instead...

[Deleted]

Yes, the game is probably in the worst state since S12.

I'd normally say the worst state since S5, but S12 was much, much worse than S5. Stampede/TFB ect.

The core mechanics of PvP have been slowly removed since WOTLK and the game just feels like a shell of what it once was. You can play on AT or just watch old tournament videos from S7, gameplay and skill requirement has definitely regressed. Instant Cast, unavoidable CC on low cooldowns for nearly every class, multiple abilities being merged together.

Core mechanics (hamstring, warriors only slow) being made passive in WoD. The direction they are taking the game is horrible.

Even if you think the game is better simplified, the transition from WOTLK to Cata left a massive hole in the skill-gap the game once had. Ranked Spells were removed, top players used to spam rank 1 frostbolt, amplify magic/dampen magic rank 1 as trash debuff during dispel wars or to protect fear ward. There was probably stuff for other classes as well.

Perhaps different ranks of spells were dumb and its good they removed them, but it still removed a large chunk of what was skill-based about PvP. Removing the ability to jump charge (which they messed up, because it effects all stuns/root/everything). You can't even jump a deep behind a pillar to avoid getting poly'd anymore. Everythings instant cast, melee can just throw away gap closers because of its short CD or they have an almost passive sprint.

Disengaging a charge intentionally was a core hunter mechanic, double disengage up pillars as well. Now its just gone.


Individual skill has been completely removed, and co-operative skill is now all that's left. Some people may like that, but without the individual skill portion of the game PvP has lost its rewarding feeling. You can nolonger really say 'we outplayed them' anymore, when the only mechanics left are what? Fake-casting and positioning. I don't think vanity pets or tabards will bring back the rewarding feel people want back.

Balance doesn't matter if the game becomes terrible.

Quite the opposite. Every single class in the game has at least one viable spec for arena

Every class has always had at least one viable spec. Its also difficult to compare 'balance' with the past.

Every single spec was technically viable in TBC. Why?. Because everyone was bad, so there was a lot of room for the good players to be good. Yes, WLD/RMP were the only comps you fought, but if someone went back in time having played from Vanilla-MoP and played TBC now, they'd be able to get glad/r1 with absolutely anything.

Every spec was viable in WOTLK, even prot specs were viable (though they were annoying). Demo lock was pretty bad in S8, BM was bad, holy priest was pretty bad (thankfully considering the spec was largely based around partial control of an AI). That's all I can think of. Either way you could outplay people and win in S8 in full blues, because the game was better, so if you were good and playing Melee/Caster/Healer you'd win whatever the comp.

Representation was much more balanced back then anyway, last season warriors have 33% representation above 2.2k. Which is an absolute joke.

[Leakage]

double disengage up pillars as well

rest in peace ;_;

[Deleted]

I think there were alot of good ideas in mop (downscaling of pve, nerfing pve stuff like legendary), catch up cap, no arena teams required etc.
But the execution wasn't well done. Stampede bug, buggy BM pet one shot, I think either 5.2 or 5.3 there was 5-6 min queues at 1500 mmr (capping took 2 hours..) russians that lag so horrible I have to think 4 sec ahead of everything (WTB region wide queues, if none pops in time gimme cross region!)..

Gonna leave the obvious stuff as 5.0 warriors, subterfuge, instant cc and stacking damage modifiers as these have been discussed alot.

[Revi]

Balance is a completely joke, considering it's been on a steady decline since the introduction of Arena.. Don't know how they've managed to pull this off.

They've also added a shitton of slows, interupts, CCs, stuns and roots across all classes, because who doesn't love losing control of their characters 60%+ of the time.

There's a lot less individual skill involved, almost nothing where you'd go "holy shit, how did you pull that off?". You're left with teams practicing their CC-lineup and whoever does it better usually wins. If they have a warrior.

[Deleted]

Yes, it's much better than

S12 when my 2 shot a multi-glad Druid in a duel because yolo 300k Heroic Strikes
S11 when Warriors were the worst thing in the world, but Rogue with legendaries and vial could literally kill you in the opener

Oooh what about DKs in S7 (?) or Frostmourne....

No, PvP is a lot more balanced, it's just still really shit.

[Revi]

End of expansion is end of expansion! Why are people surprised by this fact every fucking end of an expansion?

Because "end of expansion" is not an excuse for almost a year of horrible gameplay/balance.. Would other games get away with this? "Yeah, last 5 levels were a complete disgrace, but it doesn't count since it was towards the end."

[Deleted]

Except for CC's and a few specific cases, MoP has been very good at balancing PvP.



Then you are fighting very undergeared warriors, because I do have my Prideful Weapon and a Aimed + Chimera against a good player barely puts their health down by 30%

Wat

Aimed Shot + Chim shot with on use trinket, tailoring proc and being human, both critting is like... 250k HP lol