Blizzard has to stop obsessing about endgame - the world is tiny!

[eillas]

I have 12 or 13 as well, and I much, much prefer leveling to playing at end-game. At that point it's nothing but a gear grind, there's no real sense of accomplishment.

Good, but not everyone enjoys leveling especially when it becomes boring. (after the fifth time.)

[Packing an i5]

flying everywhere made the world feel less concrete for me. Now they take flying away but its always restored for a few thousand gold for some new gold sink training/license at level cap in whatever the new expansion is. One of my favorite zones in the game was Tol barad, the island where the dailies were. It was once full of players and its a no fly zone. Being one of the newer zones the textures seem higher resolution than old zones and I love the music and the fog, that place had a sense of mystery, dereliction and on a pvp server an epic fight was around the corner and frequent. I liked the dailies and the rewards there too.

Despite how bad cataclysm was I felt tol barad was a great achievment and far superior to wintergrasp. In fact it was the only thing that kept me playing during the short time that I did in cata.

Hopefully ashran will be even greater than than tol barad and wintergrasp combined. No fly zones are needed to break up the monotony and empty feeling that is felt while traversing elsewhere.

Got a bit sidetracked the main discussion was leveling and pre cap content vs focus on end game. Well the point of the game has always been to reach max level and over time most players stay at max level so its in blizzards best interest to pump out end game content and try and make you desire to be max lv.

However an almost opposite effect is kind of achieved now, clearly blizzard wants you to rush and reach end game as soon as possible, there is little to no attention to old content which becomes completely outdated and irrelevant.

Low lv pvp for example is abysmal pretty much always was and incredibly unbalanced. You are basicly punished for not being 90.

Some people enjoy leveling however Most people find leveling a chore. This is why power leveling service has always been and now boosts are being sold directly by blizzard.

[fengosa]

I thought Blizzard did a pretty good job giving people reasons to go out and do things this expansion.

-rare farming, dailies and lore walker scrolls on launch
-world bosses
-legendary battle pets
-5.1 faction story
-brawlers guild
-thunder isle, isle of giants and zandalari warbringers
-battlefield: barrens
-proving grounds
-celestial tournament <3
-timeless isle

It was far more focused on pandaria than older world content but that's really where the majority of the content should be. There'd be a lot of complaints if too much time was spent updated older content like they did in cata. That said I've been chasing 200 mounts recently and have had reason to go back and do AQ40, ony's lair, argent tournament and darkmoon faire the past few months.

[Deleted]

I agree on that the world seems "small" cuz of all the flying mounts. however, i still like flying mounts. IMO its fine that flying mounts are only useable at max lvl, like it was in MoP - In cata when we could just mount our dragon first time we logged in, it didnt feel magic as a xpac should.
when we have to ride a groundmount around in all the different zones, exploring and questing, the world feels bigger and more alive.

One thing I would like to come back is more world activity/ events such as the opening of AQ, or the undead invasion pre Naxxramas in Vanilla- i really enjoyed that ;D
making progression that wasnt in a small raidgrp , in a zone that wasnt "only" for the highest level, but also those who were close to it. making a part of the raid come out of the dungeon, to excite and motivate people, instead of the typically "the enemy is lurking inside the dungeon - we have to get in there and stop them b4 they grow stronger and ... stays in there"

activity makes the world feels bigger - so imo they should basiclly make stuff happens around the world - world events and less flying - i think it would hlp ;D

[eillas]

I agree on that the world seems "small" cuz of all the flying mounts. however, i still like flying mounts. IMO its fine that flying mounts are only useable at max lvl, like it was in MoP - In cata when we could just mount our dragon first time we logged in, it didnt feel magic as a xpac should.
when we have to ride a groundmount around in all the different zones, exploring and questing, the world feels bigger and more alive.

Because back then. WoW was brand new.
see this comic. Different point, same meaning. http://www.darklegacycomics.com/433.html

[nyc81991]

That's not going to solve anything. You wont make the world more "immersive" by inconveniencing people for no real gain.

Flying mounts are the equivalent to cheat codes. Sure they are cool but they take away from the feel of the game world. Without them the world feels a lot larger and more immersive.

The only ones that have an issue with no flying are the people who don't care about immersion or the game world. They just want to jump right into an instance, get it done and log. That's not what an MMO-RPG is. If you want that kind of game play CoD or LoL.

[Deleted]

I feel I should point out that more world content does not have to mean alt levelling. Yes, levelling can get old, since it revolves around seeing the same storylines over and over.

Hanging out in Redridge Mountains or Feralas, however, does not get old provided there is something meaningful to do.

I am talking about expanding the stage of the game's content to cover the entire world instead of just the newest continent.

It seems like such an obvious thing to do, considering how much time went into designing those beautiful landscapes.

To achieve what I am suggesting, I think they would have to tackle the issue on many different fronts at once. They would have to improve alternative ways of travel so that flying feels less appealing; they would need to scale content somehow; they would need to invent new forms of content for us to do in the old world, while still giving us new and exciting content in every expansion; and ideally they would also lessen the impact of the Cataclysm time problem by placing some of the Deathwing specific content in phasing to those levelling. The quest content is fine, because at max level you are unlikely to start questioning low level questing NPCs about current affairs. But things like burning chasms in a zone could perhaps be toned down, and Outland could be placed in CoT.

It's a lot of work, granted. But I think the result would far outweigh the price. Imagine having a world again! The very idea of grinding towards a real, current goal in Un'Goro or Feralas just makes me all excited.

Again, I should point out that people aren't sick of the zones themselves, but rather the specific questing experiences you see over and over when you level up alts.

[Elian]

I feel I should point out that more world content does not have to mean alt levelling. Yes, levelling can get old, since it revolves around seeing the same storylines over and over.

Hanging out in Redridge Mountains or Feralas, however, does not get old provided there is something meaningful to do.

I am talking about expanding the stage of the game's content to cover the entire world instead of just the newest continent.

It seems like such an obvious thing to do, considering how much time went into designing those beautiful landscapes.

To achieve what I am suggesting, I think they would have to tackle the issue on many different fronts at once. They would have to improve alternative ways of travel so that flying feels less appealing; they would need to scale content somehow; they would need to invent new forms of content for us to do in the old world, while still giving us new and exciting content in every expansion; and ideally they would also lessen the impact of the Cataclysm time problem by placing some of the Deathwing specific content in phasing to those levelling. The quest content is fine, because at max level you are unlikely to start questioning low level questing NPCs about current affairs. But things like burning chasms in a zone could perhaps be toned down, and Outland could be placed in CoT.

It's a lot of work, granted. But I think the result would far outweigh the price. Imagine having a world again! The very idea of grinding towards a real, current goal in Un'Goro or Feralas just makes me all excited.

Again, I should point out that people aren't sick of the zones themselves, but rather the specific questing experiences you see over and over when you level up alts.

you have to understand the current mindset of the current player base. the MMO aspect of the game is completely gone , it is most likely turned into Instanced Multiplayer Online at the request of the current player base(like LFR). the majority of the Current player base have no interest in exploring the world, their main focus is the end game and obtaining gear, nothing can change that, not anymore. Not Until Blizzard stops catering to these people, and from my assumptions Blizzard would rather find more ways to cut corners than to contemplate on how to make the game more immense.

[Deleted]

What would you rather have a new raid tier or a new raid tier?

[Super Kami Dende]

What ho,

Do you remember the old game, when World of Warcraft was a world, and not just a continent?

You mean when it was just 2 continents?

[klogaroth]

Endgame is why WoW has survived as long as it has.

MMOs with great levelling and lacklustre endgame don't tend to keep their subs once they've hit max level.


Ideally you want both, but if you compare the 2 side by side it's easy to see which is going to come out on top given the choice between then.



Fun whilst levelling = fun for several days or weeks, depending on how long it takes.

Fun in endgame = fun for several months or years, depending on time between level cap changes.


Making the entire world endgame simply isn't viable in a game this old. Plus it doesn't extend the life any more than a brand new zone does. Less so in fact.

Going back to zones you've already been through again is not quite as fun as going to a new zone, given equal quality of zone.
The time that you can stand to spend in let's say Thousand Needles will therefore be less than the time you can stand to spend in a brand new area.

[Deleted]

I think players who have been in the endgame for years should bear in mind the perspective
of a new player. One of the major appeals of the game to newcomers is the ability to wander
around an entire, beautiful world exploring.

Now, beyond low-level, everything that actual matters in Wow nowadays is behind a loading screen and
instance portal. This in itself is a kind of prison which allows no real deviation from the "correct"
path.

The most thrilling aspect of Wow I feel is world raids and pvp. There's this weird feeling of claustrophobia
in instances.

[Deleted]

We could have both. I've always been told throwing more developers at the issue wont fix it but I dont see how this is the case. Ithink Blizzard should have a separate small develpment team that focus's only on the old world by keeping it up to date, balanced and with reasons(mostly cosmetic rewards) to go to places sparsely populated such as Exodar/Silvermoon.

This would allow new players as someone said above enjoy the game more other than feeling they need to rush to end game. There would be less story inconsistencies (Stormwind park still left destroyed). Create dynamic social events such as you see in other games maybe something similar to timeless ilse. Would also be very neat if we could get racial transmog armor for doing city dailies and small rep grinds.

[Hyve]

Old content becomes redundant because that is the design of the game. Very little is to be gained from working in previous expansion content, when there are new threats looming.

I understand what you're suggesting, it'd be a nice idea, but it'd be a massive overhaul within the World of Warcraft Development Ethos. Moving forwards is always their main priority, developing the story, bringing up new threats. It'd be nice to see a little more connections back and forth, but keeping all the old content as relevant as the latest is only going to slow development time down, and for what gain?

[Deleted]

I am OK with integrating end-game with the old continents, but only if they are not changed. I want things to be added, not removed. We already had a cataclysm changing the old world, removing previously available content. For instance, the original Zul'Aman/Gurub content is lost forever. WotLK also removed the original Naxxramas. Even some quest chains in Blackrock Mountain have been removed, making it impossible to obtain some old gear, which would be nice to have now because of transmog.

So, I'd be happy to see more endgame around the world, but only if it does not remove low level content. Since Blizzard in the past threw away low level content without much ado, I would rather hope that Blizzard focuses on the new continent, only.

[mosely]

More and more zones + fewer and fewer players = lots of empty zones.

[Kickbuttmario]

This solves so much more than that. When leveling currently, you legit do like 5 quests per zone, because by then, the next one is better. IF things could scale to you over time in real time.

The leveling content boosts like 100%.

Exactly! Blizzard has to implement a system like this. It will make the game so much better for everyone when it comes to leveling or doing old world content. Oh lets make a challenge. Let's see if we can 10 man SUnwell Plateau while we're level 70 but we each have best in slot gear.

The amount of fun this could bring is insane!

[Kaleredar]

Exactly! Blizzard has to implement a system like this. It will make the game so much better for everyone when it comes to leveling or doing old world content. Oh lets make a challenge. Let's see if we can 10 man SUnwell Plateau while we're level 70 but we each have best in slot gear.

The amount of fun this could bring is insane!

No one would do 10 man sunwell. People that are leveling for the first time don't really know their rotations, don't have good gear, and generally aren't very skilled players. Raids require you to know all of those things, especially an end-tier raid like sunwell did.

And like many other people, you're basically suggesting a change that wouldn't affect you because you choose to level quickly anyway and wouldn't spend time building up a 10 man raiding group for a now-pointless raid like sunwell. You're basically saying "I'm worried that people that are just starting to play this game wont enjoy it the right way," which, frankly, is quite petty.

[Chain Chungus]

I agree with the OP.

They should actually do another Cataclysm to be honest. I know, I know. But the vast majority of the work was done in Cataclysm itself, and now they have a modernized old world they could be doing all sorts of stories in.

It is actually a waste to not make another one. Also, with all that work already done another Cataclysm type expansion could have a very rich endgame too. Blizzard just got way too emotionally wounded by the last attempt, or so they seem to behave.

[Murderdoll]

Yeah because Cataclysm wasnt the biggest failure since ToC. They either dedicate time to one or the other.

In the end, what would people rather see, a new raid tier or something to do for 20 minutes in the world?

Ill take raid tier every day of the week.