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  1. #1

    Temporal Shield not healing after Dark Shaman Iron Prison?

    Hey folks,
    we tried Dark shaman yesterday evenning. We used the split-tactic.
    Group Kardriss was 2 Frostmages (me including) and 1 Disc (+tank and dd)
    The idea was that TS should negate Iron Prison completly with help of 1 PW:S.
    Looking at the logs:
    15 trys events filtered: Casting TS, Getting dmg, Healing of TS
    If u look at the Event view you find following things:

    19:57:52.071 Lyrror casts Temporaler Schild
    19:57:53.363 Environment Eisengefängnis Lyrror 422655 (A: 161068)
    19:58:27.870 Lyrror casts Temporaler Schild

    So TS was casted at the right moment but never healed back the dmg from Prison.
    Sometimes TS was used for Toxic Mist or Falling Ash and then it works:

    19:58:27.870 Lyrror casts Temporaler Schild
    19:58:27.940 Toxischer Sturm 5 Toxischer Sturm Lyrror 288400 (A: 116600)
    19:58:29.941 Lyrror Temporale Wellen Lyrror +135000
    19:58:31.924 Lyrror Temporale Wellen Lyrror +135000
    19:58:33.922 Lyrror Temporale Wellen Lyrror +18400 (O: 116600)

    So what is wrong here? Have someone other maybe a second log which we could check?
    Maybe Warcraftlogs is broken, but my feeling at the evenning was that TS was really not working. Is the ability something special so that TS dont work at all?

  2. #2
    I encountered this also but i dont have logs to prove. I can just say it never healed me back at all and so i just switched to barrier.
    Maybe its a bug, maybe intended.. who knows. I guess its not a bug cause of class stacking. Mage would be just soooooo strong by negating ALL near-death mechanics this encounter brings +15% flat reduction at 25sec cd.

    btw there has to be something special about that debuff because you cant despell it with block or GI.
    Last edited by Leniaas; 2014-04-03 at 09:09 AM.

  3. #3
    The Patient Abraxis's Avatar
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    Just use greater Invis

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxis View Post
    Just use greater Invis
    only downside of greater inv: it has 90 sec cooldown, so it is not always available for iron prison
    temporal shield has a 25 sec cooldown and can be used for each prison

  5. #5
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    Iron Prison was designed to be a spell that deals 100% of your health as physical damage and which doesn't care for immunity spells like Ice Block or Divine Shield and it doesn't care about armor. This is a special physical debuff so it can't be dispelled.

    The only thing that can save you on it is damage reduction or an absorption shield. This means that mages can survive with Temporal Shield, Ice Barrier, Cauterize, Greater Invisibility and with the help of other class' defensive cooldowns or abilities (even hand of protection). You need to be at or near max hp in order to survive plus use one of your spells. No need for the priest's help unless you're not at max hp. If you have 600k health, Temporal Shield will get you to 90k, Ice Barrier will get you to about 150k and Greater Invisibility will get you to 540k.

    Discipline isn't really that good on Kardris' side in 10-man, only in 25-man. You need someone to keep you at high health, especially since both of you mages can survive without the help of others.

  6. #6
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Huh. You're right. That's a weird bug, I can't believe I never noticed.

    I'll throw a report at Celestalon on Twitter, I suppose.
    Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2014-04-03 at 11:00 AM.

  7. #7
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    I don't think that it's a bug honestly, because it would totally defeat the danger behind it and significantly reduce the healing requirement of the fight. Smells intentional. Does any other class have a similar effect to compare?

  8. #8
    This is a well known bug.

    Actually, Ice block works. If I get 3 consequtive prisons, i use Invis-Iceblock-Invis then i ask for help for the 4th. I prisons are not consequtive, then its ok. I even switch to molten armor for additional physical reduction (survival>dps) then back.
    I suggest to TS for meteor impact.

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire
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    I thought this "bug" is known months ago and I already read this end 2013 in threads here.
    BTW Molten Armor (+ Glyph) is not ignored.

    EDIT: Damn, NPI was faster

    Here's some math to prove the damage reductions of TS and MA, but logs are already expired, so trust me (and NPI):
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...5#post24087715 , posted 2013-12-05, 04:23 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Smaikiii View Post
    I'm quite sure that the damage reduction of Temporal Shield works for Iron Prison. We have a restro shami in our group for Kardis, so no absorb shields at all and our arcane mage never dies with Temporal Shield.

    Proof:

    Source: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/l93le...Smaik%C3%AE%22 (Eisengefängnis (german) = Iron Prison)

    [20:49:41.833] Unknown Iron Prison Smaikî 546430
    [20:52:52.342] Unknown Iron Prison Smaikî 642859

    1. Iron Prison is with Glyphed Molton Armor 16% + Temporal Shield 15%
    ReducedDamage = BaseDamage * (1-0.16) * (1-0.15) = BaseDamage * 0.714
    BaseDamage = ReducedDamage / 0.714
    BaseDamage = 546430 / 0.714
    BaseDamage = 765308 (aka MaxHP)

    2. Iron Prison is with Glyphed Armor only (Used TS for Falling Ash)
    765308 * (1-0.16) = 765308 * 0.84 = 642858.72

    Or you just do 546430 / 0.85 which is also 642859

    PS: If you notice the second last damage of Iron Prison in the logs, it just did 584417 damage (without TS) because the Ancestral Vigor from the restro expired, so I had -10% less HP ( (765308 / 1.1) * 0,84 = 584417 OR 642859 / 1.1 = 584417 )

    q.e.d.
    Last edited by Smaikiii; 2014-04-03 at 11:27 AM.
    Fire Mage 14/14H 10+25m <Integrity> @ EU-Eredar

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    I don't think that it's a bug honestly, because it would totally defeat the danger behind it and significantly reduce the healing requirement of the fight. Smells intentional. Does any other class have a similar effect to compare?
    Dont know about a single class with an ability like TS.
    Of course would it reduce the difficult of this ability but you could also ask a paladin for his hand when u get Haromms Debuff. And here the paladins spell is working as inteded trivializing the dot.
    So i think too, that this is a bug.
    So far from my side thanks for all the answers. On Sunday i know that its worthless to cast TS before Iron Prison and we could adjust our tactic so far.

  11. #11
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    It is not worthless. Temporal shield will save you every single time, you just have to be at 90% or more hp for it to do it. I prefer using ice block and G.I. for the meteor because the healers have one less person to heal in the AoE confusion that happens then. Besides, you can use temporal shield once more between prisons anyway.

  12. #12
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomathan View Post
    Dont know about a single class with an ability like TS.
    Of course would it reduce the difficult of this ability but you could also ask a paladin for his hand when u get Haromms Debuff. And here the paladins spell is working as inteded trivializing the dot.
    So i think too, that this is a bug.
    So far from my side thanks for all the answers. On Sunday i know that its worthless to cast TS before Iron Prison and we could adjust our tactic so far.
    15% damage reduction is not totally worthless, but yeah, save it primarily for Falling Ash if you enter that stage.
    Last edited by Smaikiii; 2014-04-03 at 11:40 AM.
    Fire Mage 14/14H 10+25m <Integrity> @ EU-Eredar

  13. #13
    The Patient Abraxis's Avatar
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    only downside of greater inv: it has 90 sec cooldown, so it is not always available for iron prison
    temporal shield has a 25 sec cooldown and can be used for each prison
    1. GI
    2. Iceblock
    3. GI again or call an external CD

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Dutchmagoz's Avatar
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    Keep in mind, as a fire mage, you can't even die to the spell if you're full HP without doing anything, Molten armor reduces the damage it deals. Combined with TS you end up on like 30% HP.

    You can greater invis pretty much every single one unless you're very unlucky, on 25 man I don't think I've ever had 2 in a row yet, though on 10 man it was quite a bit more common.
    Got questions about mages or want your logs analyzed? Feel free to PM me, or better yet, post on altered-time.com forums.

    Altered Time - The #1 mage community.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Selenor View Post
    only downside of greater inv: it has 90 sec cooldown, so it is not always available for iron prison
    temporal shield has a 25 sec cooldown and can be used for each prison
    unless your really unlucky you should be able to GI most of the prisons as when new ones are applied the 2 other prisons should be around 30 secs so you shouldn't really get more than one every 90 secs anyway, TS unless really needed should be used on falling ash due to it always working to heal you up after the damage, but TS is short enough to be used on Prisons as and when needed.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Selenor View Post
    only downside of greater inv: it has 90 sec cooldown, so it is not always available for iron prison
    temporal shield has a 25 sec cooldown and can be used for each prison
    That's why you have Ice Block.

    Greater Invis and Ice Block the Prisons, Temporal Shield the Falling Ash right before it lands. As Abraxis said, call for an external if you're out of CDs

  17. #17
    We are 10 man raiding and due to splittatctic we only are 2 mages,1 shadow, 1 disc and 1warriortank.
    So we get an Iron Prison every 60 seconds for the whole fight and externals are rare. But again we are not dying to that. In 15 tries yesterday most of the time the Harommgroup fails. If someone in our group dies it happend because of playerfail (standing in Toxic Mist etc.).
    The main question as said was: Is it better to use TS on Falling Ashe or on IronPrison and this is answered for me. Thanks so far.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchmagoz View Post
    though on 10 man it was quite a bit more common.
    On 10-man, I seem get it pretty much every time it's cast.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by NPI View Post
    This is a well known bug.

    Actually, Ice block works. If I get 3 consequtive prisons, i use Invis-Iceblock-Invis then i ask for help for the 4th. I prisons are not consequtive, then its ok. I even switch to molten armor for additional physical reduction (survival>dps) then back.
    I suggest to TS for meteor impact.
    dont switch to molten armor, as a mage you have plenty of tools to deal with iron prison, like you said urself.
    wether ur arcane or frost, (especially frost), switching to molten is a significant dps loss and only a marginal survival increase (how often do u get 4 prisons in a row really...)

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMine View Post
    ...(how often do u get 4 prisons in a row really...)
    As said before more than 1 times. In 10 man with splittactic you get them every time for the whole fight. So not 3 or 4 in a row. U get 8-9 in a row (depending on your killtime of course)

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