Is patriotism the current form of segregation?

[OneSent]

I believe that patriotism has slowly morphed into nationalism for many people. The line between the two has become so blurred that I don't think those people are even aware that there is a difference.

Patriotism has gone from a sort of unconditional love and devotion to one's nation to a "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality. It's okay to enjoy being a part of something, but that should never turn into an "us vs them" way of looking at things.

It is difficult for some people to understand how someone can love their country, yet at the same time, respect and even appreciate the differences of other countries. Or, how that same someone could ever think to criticize their own country when they feel it's appropriate.

I don't know how many times I've heard the phase "If you don't like it here, then get out!". People often confuse someone's discontent for the way things are done as a sign of not caring, and these people are often labeled as being "unpatriotic" and rejected.

Also, speaking praise or approval for another country's actions is almost considered sacrilege these days. Doing so might get you the typical, "If you like it so much, why don't you move there?". I feel that ultimatums like those are people's way of avoiding having to face a problem because they don't want to rock the boat. They'd rather just accept things as they are while taking pride in something that they don't even fully understand.

Personally, I think patriotism has become a spark just waiting to ignite discrimination. There has always been discrimination between nations, but that discrimination can just as easily include individuals living on the same piece of land, and pit them against each other in needless conflict.

Human beings will forever find any excuse to hold on to anything that keeps them isolated and detached. And I'm not talking about globalization. I'm talking about our perpetual and willful ignorance of the fact that we are all one - regardless of national, political or religious stance. Every time we overcome one of these discrepancies, we invent a new one.

[Skroe]

Getting rid of national borders is pretty much impossible at this point in time.

And not desirable.

One-worlder idealists typically gloss over the immense differences that different peoples and cultures have and how coming to a certain common understanding in many case is an impossibility. And typically, the biggest barriers are about things folks don't even consider.

Let's take my favorite example. Jury Trials. American Citizens, how many of you would give up the right to a trial by jury? European Citizens (rhetorically generalizing a bit here), how many of you have jury trials in your countries? How many of you want them? How many of you prefer a non-adversarial system of trails and judge tribunals?

So whose way is right and proper? The American or the European? How can we live under one roof if we cant even agree to the same procedure when a crime is committed at the most fundamental level? And this is between the most alike of peoples... Americans and Europeans. What Europeans and countries under Sharia? Will Europeans subject themselves to some aspects of Islamic law for the sake of a borderless world? Or is the (broadly) Western way the only applicable system that a borderless world will run under? Isn't that both a kind of nationalism AND imperialism?

National borders are there for a reason. A good reason. They should never go away.

[God8010]

I believe that patriotism has slowly morphed into nationalism for many people. The line between the two has become so blurred that I don't think those people are even aware that there is a difference.

Patriotism has gone from a sort of unconditional love and devotion to one's nation to a "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality. It's okay to enjoy being a part of something, but that should never turn into an "us vs them" way of looking at things.

It is difficult for some people to understand how someone can love their country, yet at the same time, respect and even appreciate the differences of other countries. Or, how that same someone could ever think to criticize their own country when they feel it's appropriate.

I don't know how many times I've heard the phase "If you don't like it here, then get out!". People often confuse someone's discontent for the way things are done as a sign of not caring, and these people are often labeled as being "unpatriotic" and rejected.

Also, speaking praise or approval for another country's actions is almost considered sacrilege these days. Doing so might get you the typical, "If you like it so much, why don't you move there?". I feel that ultimatums like those are people's way of avoiding having to face a problem because they don't want to rock the boat. They'd rather just accept things as they are while taking pride in something that they don't even fully understand.

Personally, I think patriotism has become a spark just waiting to ignite discrimination. There has always been discrimination between nations, but that discrimination can just as easily include individuals living on the same piece of land, and pit them against each other in needless conflict.

Human beings will forever find any excuse to hold on to anything that keeps them isolated and detached. And I'm not talking about globalization. I'm talking about our perpetual and willful ignorance of the fact that we are all one - regardless of national, political or religious stance. Every time we overcome one of these discrepancies, we invent a new one.

I know I only love this post because of confirmation bias but still, I love you. Still going with we are the same person and individuality is an illusion created by the eyes but honestly it's just semantics at this point.

[Deleted]

Hmm, difficult.

I think as long as patriotism doesn't turn into nationalism it is fine. It is obviously not right that you find others inferior because you are from such and such country.

With all due respect, you don't know what nationalism is. It's not about finding others "inferior", that is a left-wing strawman, it's about identifying with, or becoming attached to, one's nation, culture, that sort of thing. Ask yourself this: Do you believe that French or Germans or whoever have a right to preserve their cultures in their respective homelands (territories known as France, Gemany etc. in case I'm not being clear enough) and that the governments should serve the interests of their respective groups? If so, voila, you're a nationalist. You don't even need to be French or German to approve this.

Think families, but bigger: Do I think my neighbor's family is "inferior"? No, I'm just not a part of it and he's not a part of mine. We don't share the same lands or have a common destiny, doesn't mean we are hostile to each other. We just have certain boundaries.

Even if you don't like nationalism, I can almost guarantee you you'll turn to nationalism in the event of a major crisis, out of survival if nothing else.

- - - Updated - - -

As globalization intensifies, you may very well see a single culture exterminate the others. Obviously the US has already inherited that tradition from Europe and goes about it with great skill.

Only some societies are impenetrable. If information is censored and dissent is punishable by death or by long sentences, there's no way you're going to westernize it.

[truckboattruck]

this post is so far left i dont even know what to do with it lol
i certainly can't take it seriously

do you just set at home and find ways to be oppressed?
is being a victim really so great?
this person honestly believes that straight white men are evil lol
so who is the racist really....

[Payday]

What the fuck are you talking about?

I think he's one of those patriots. Ya know, the yellow snake flag kind.

[Spectral]

Well, someone's always got to feel oppressed over something. Wanting to feel put upon seems a basic human feature. If we had an unimaginably egalitarian society, people would decide they're oppressed when someone gets better drops on Diablo than them. Check your good luck, oppressor!

[OzoAndIndi]

Not really picking up on context of patriotism in this in terms of segregation... Are we talking about social crap within the same nation, or nation vs nation?

Not really a word I associate with segregation. The most I generally here of being "patriotic" is right-leaners who like to self label that word, which is not a word I feel someone should apply to themselves (and arrogant if done) and is only rightly seen in someone from the view of someone else. I suppose some people who self label with it are using it in an us vs. them tone, though segregation... I dunno. In my ear it has a tone more similar to someone stating they are a "good Christian," in which case it suggest anyone else is bad..? New form of that attitude I guess. Something to think over though.

[Deleted]

There is nothing wrong with a bit of patriotism, like rooting for the national team, or being a proud citizen of your country.

It all starts going wrong when it becomes an excuse to support wars or used as an argument in a discussion about important matters? You don't support this cause? You are not a patriot and therefor a commie terrorist!
Or when you start indoctrinating children by making them swear allegiance to their country...

[Kaleredar]

I'm not sure how you can segregate someone based on "patriotism". Like what? "Patriot only" water fountains? "Patriots" can sit at the front of the bus?

Anyway... OP, what' you're referring to is more like apathy than patriotism. It's turning a blind eye to suffering, not because people feel the individuals working on nonexistent salaries are "worse because they're not from X country," but because it's out of sight and out of mind.

[Deleted]

For me, patriotism is just that you're inspired by the country you live in and/or you strive to make it better. The only thing that patriots and nationalists got in common is that they're both loyal to their country, nothing else.

[Grummgug]

If anything its liberalism.

Conservatives in the press get excluded and annihilated by liberals in the press. For example, Rush Limbaugh has a huge listener base and the liberal press go beyond segregation, but constantly lie about what he says and never allows him to set the record straight. They segregate him and people on the right and actually think its normal.

We once had forced busing to end segregation in schools. What we really need is a form of forced busing in the press. Quotas established where every major newspaper and media outlet must have a large percentage of conservatives on staff. Because right now a lot of media outlets are packed with liberals and that's not a representation of the country at all.

[Wildtree]

And not desirable.

One-worlder idealists typically gloss over the immense differences that different peoples and cultures have and how coming to a certain common understanding in many case is an impossibility. And typically, the biggest barriers are about things folks don't even consider.

Let's take my favorite example. Jury Trials. American Citizens, how many of you would give up the right to a trial by jury? European Citizens (rhetorically generalizing a bit here), how many of you have jury trials in your countries? How many of you want them? How many of you prefer a non-adversarial system of trails and judge tribunals?

So whose way is right and proper? The American or the European? How can we live under one roof if we cant even agree to the same procedure when a crime is committed at the most fundamental level? And this is between the most alike of peoples... Americans and Europeans. What Europeans and countries under Sharia? Will Europeans subject themselves to some aspects of Islamic law for the sake of a borderless world? Or is the (broadly) Western way the only applicable system that a borderless world will run under? Isn't that both a kind of nationalism AND imperialism?

National borders are there for a reason. A good reason. They should never go away.

Regarding the courts..
Germany and Austria have a different form of trial by jury. It's called court of lay assessors.
I am a little torn which model I favor, yet I tend to lean towards the German/Austrian model, since the assessors are as well professional judges and not "amateur civilians" that are more influenced by emotion.
Now I am totally aware how emotion often plays a significant role in the evaluation of a crime at hand. Generally speaking I think I still trust the professional judgment of a panel of judges more though.

I also think how all your concerns are very valid, and should not, nor can they be neglected. I do agree with you on those. I am still a supporter of the One-World principle. It should be, and I believe at some point will be the ultimate solution. Giving up borders does not mean to give up a societies identity. There will always be regional diversity within a country's society. We see that in any country, even if we neglect any immigrants. The natives alone vary greatly on many aspects, depending on the region they live in.
It IS possible to live in another country, and adopt to the country's lifestyle, while at the same time keeping ones own cultural background without ever bothering the society one chooses to live in. I do that every day. And that physical border has no effect on that whatsoever. It's the person and how they approach migration not the border.
If we would tear down all borders across the planet...
We would see another migration period. Much like the ones we've had in Europe between 300 AD and 800 AD. But much like back then, it would eventually come to rest again. Logically people would stream to the "hot spots" where a better life appears to be more granted than in other parts of the planet. But not all migration would flood towards high populated and high tech/economy countries. There would also be a migration stream that is in fact trying to escape from there to more quiet regions.

Now for myself? I believe I am a patriot. Took a long time until I've learned to be patriotic. That shame and blame of WW2 weighed heavy on our shoulders...
I am critical enough to say, that I also possess a mild form of nationalism. What's a mild form? Sports... Football (Soccer) triggers it.
When the referee blows the whistle, and the game starts, it's on..... There will be no prisoners taken. For the time of the game there's only one thing that matters... Germany, or the hometown team! The other team must lose. Possible friendship becomes rather secondary... For 90+ minutes, I/we turn into nationalists.

[chrisberb]

If anything its liberalism.

Conservatives in the press get excluded and annihilated by liberals in the press. For example, Rush Limbaugh has a huge listener base and the liberal press go beyond segregation, but constantly lie about what he says and never allows him to set the record straight. They segregate him and people on the right and actually think its normal.

We once had forced busing to end segregation in schools. What we really need is a form of forced busing in the press. Quotas established where every major newspaper and media outlet must have a large percentage of conservatives on staff. Because right now a lot of media outlets are packed with liberals and that's not a representation of the country at all.

Love how you turned it into a rant about the "liberal media". And people say Democrats have a victim complex

[Wildtree]

]For example, Rush Limbaugh has a huge listener base and the liberal press go beyond segregation, but constantly lie about what he says and never allows him to set the record straight.

No one needs, nor can anyone lie about Rush Limbaugh.. That is literally impossible, since the proof exists in form of his broadcasts. For any claim made against him, his very broadcasts stand as proof for the claim.
He exposes himself time and again as a total jerk.
The problem with Limbaugh isn't even he himself. It's the listeners, and how they treat his brain diarrhea....
I take his listener base, and expose them to a pamphlet of some random drug user who's suffered mental damage from the long term overuse. I am absolutely sure how the overwhelming majority of those people would right away discard the druggies pamphlet and message, because you know he's a druggie whose brain isn't functioning right anymore...
And now those same people don't consider how Limbaugh is exactly that.... Some random dude, who happens to have a radio show, but has a record of excessive drug abuse, which clearly caused some damage to his brain..
That drug side effect, combined with the otherwise completely radical mindset, creates what I referred to as brain diarrhea. There's a reason why serious and respected right wing politicians staying far far away from him.
There's only one thing more idiotic than Limbaugh and the crap he spills around. That's believing in the shit he talks. lol

[Templar 331]

"You're either with us or against us!"

"If you don't like this country then get out!"

Yeah....it's a form of segregation. :/

[Hooked]

Patriotism and nationalism are good things in my opinion.

[Kurioxan]

Patriotism and nationalism are good things in my opinion.

diseases of the mind, all of those!
You dont need those to still oppose oppressive cultures and ideologies.