Rogue 6.0 patch notes

[Sesshou]

Did MG ever proc poisons?

And I realize its poison vs KS and MG on beta, but your suggestion removes MG from that and I haven't seen anything suggesting a shift on the poison side. When I said KS, I also just mean the actual KS hits (specifically off hand) which I believe also benefit from the 50% bonus. The all damage part of spree is fairly neutral outside of those KS hits, but unless I'm wrong and KS hits are somehow exempt from an increase to all damage done then that part is not neutral to slow vs fast.

[shadowboy]

MG definitely proced poisons in cata, I assumed that functionality was retained in MoP. Simc and shadowcraft have been modeling it as MG procing poisons all MoP, so both were overstating the value of mastery.

Also keep in mind, weapon damage modifiers in MoP don't directly compare to live. KSp is modeling as ~5-6% of dps in the simc t17m profile, and it's modeling at ~9% on live (keep in mind, that's with AoC and the t16 4-set, so you can guess that those two things together roughly double the contribution of killing spree--a little more actually, 1.5 (ksp dmg modifer) x 1.5 (hwf aoc = 54% more frequent sprees) = 2.25).

[Ryme]

Sub also still using Glyph of Disappearance and Shadow Focus (for whatever reason)

Shadow Focus was coming out ahead for me a few builds ago, probably because the model was using Glyph of Disappearance.

- - - Updated - - -

Also I dont realy see a 1k DPS difference on full gear as mandatory to play combat, the problem is still Blade freaking Flurry and cleave fights, heres hopping multi-rupturing 2-3 targets can be competitive, I dont think ive seen proper AoE damage comparisions.

I have, Blade flurry wrecks everything.

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/OldRaidReports/aoe-raid-9-19-14.html

Grains of salt: I don't believe the wod FoK perks for assassination and subtlety are implemented, aoe rotations are dumb.

[Raicky]

Shadow Focus was coming out ahead for me a few builds ago, probably because the model was using Glyph of Disappearance.

- - - Updated - - -



I have, Blade flurry wrecks everything.

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org...d-9-19-14.html

Grains of salt: I don't believe the wod FoK perks for assassination and subtlety are implemented, aoe rotations are dumb.

Is that sim for real ? Lol, I didn't know BF was that strong.

[Ryme]

It's a real sim (old build, I'm working on proper updated ones), but those grains of salt are important.

[Raicky]

It's a real sim (old build, I'm working on proper updated ones), but those grains of salt are important.

Yeah, The assassination profile is using Shadow Reflection. The 15% boost to energy regen should outweigh the small dps SR provides.

[Ryme]

It's also not multi rupturing, I'm not even sure how I get the model to do that.

[Raicky]

It's also not multi rupturing, I'm not even sure how I get the model to do that.

Haha I was just about to ask how many targets the profile was considering "optimum" to multi rup.

Actually.. What is the optimum number of targets for multi rup in warlords ?

[Artorius]

It's also not multi rupturing, I'm not even sure how I get the model to do that.

I'm pretty sure Collision made something similar to Fury at MoP, when facing two targets, the model uses BT switching between them to put deep wounds on both, he would probably help at the IRC.

[Ryme]

Thanks for the tip, found the answers going through the Fury Warrior profiles.

cycle_targets=1
max_cycle_targets=x

Edit, I'm rushing idiot, the normal profile is set up to multi rupture, it also looks like it's correct to rupture everything (at least up to 5 enemies so far).

- - - Updated - - -

Sad note: I was hoping the mini cleave of Death From Above might save it as an AoE talent - sadly, it is a huge dps loss of around 20% in AoE situations for combat and a reasonable loss of around 7% for subtlety.

[Raicky]

What are the aoe sims looking like with venom rush as the level 100 talent ? I see that the aoe profile is using shadow reflection.

EDIT : For assassination at least I see the sims using shadow reflection as the level 100 talent.

[Ryme]

Behind with Venom rush since the reflection can AoE with you and since you're rupturing everything, regen is insane anyway.

For a positive, I've managed to get Subtlety 1% ahead of shadowboy's combat profile in single target. Yay.

[Raicky]

Hmm that sounds odd. I was thinking along the lines of getting Venom Rush and 5 CP Rupture on 3~4 targets then CT spam till Rupture falls off. I guess we need to wait till the AoE rotations are fixed.

[Ryme]

AoE rotations aren't that off to be fair, venom rush just isn't that good unless you're combat.

[Deleted]

I'm looking at this assassination simc profile and I think it doesn't take care of keeping DP up on all these rupture targets, especially when FoK is not used (less than 4 targets). DP is needed for Venomous Wounds to tick. It is inconvenient as DP has shorter duration than Rupture, so you somehow need to refresh it on all targets.

[Raicky]

I'm looking at this assassination simc profile and I think it doesn't take care of keeping DP up on all these rupture targets, especially when FoK is not used (less than 4 targets). DP is needed for Venomous Wounds to tick. It is inconvenient as DP has shorter duration than Rupture, so you somehow need to refresh it on all targets.

Either I've been playing assassination wrong all this while, or that statement is just completely false.

[Feali]

Either I've been playing assassination wrong all this while, or that statement is just completely false.

Well the target DOES have to be poisoned.

[Ryme]

I'm looking at this assassination simc profile and I think it doesn't take care of keeping DP up on all these rupture targets, especially when FoK is not used (less than 4 targets). DP is needed for Venomous Wounds to tick. It is inconvenient as DP has shorter duration than Rupture, so you somehow need to refresh it on all targets.

I've been playing with sims at 5-8 targets to get around this.

[fierydemise]

AoE rotations aren't that off to be fair, venom rush just isn't that good unless you're combat.

Another bonus for lemon zest for combat is the way Blizzard hacked LZ to work for combat makes it behave a little differently than the other specs. For assassination and sub if a target dies that has your poison on it you lose the LZ stack immediately, for combat you lose is 12 seconds after your last IP poison proc on the target so you can get higher uptime on stacks than the other two specs. It won't come into play on the SimC fight you are modeling but for streaming add fights (and there are a lot this tier) its a little bonus.

Its worth noting that the assassination SimC build is multi-rupturing and maintaining DP on all 5 targets, you can see this by looking at the reported uptimes for DP and Rupture which are 496% and 467% respectively (you can also see the additional CPs from empowered FoK for sub). I think the real issue with LZ for sub and assassination is that sub and assassination both move into a rotation where they don't need additional energy regen on AoE.

It'd be interesting to experiment with weaving in empowered CT for assassination AoE, I'm skeptical it can compete with infinte energy from ruptures over a long time period but on enough targets it seems like it could be a dps increase. I'll play around with it when I get home from work.

[Deleted]

Its worth noting that the assassination SimC build is multi-rupturing and maintaining DP on all 5 targets, you can see this by looking at the reported uptimes for DP and Rupture which are 496% and 467% respectively

.. but it's not maintaining DP if you set it to 3 targets. DP/Rupture uptime is 99%/286% for me. It only maintains DP on 5 targets because it uses FoK there. Fun thing is - it still shows almost triple damage from VW compared to one target. Guess it's something to fix in simcraft rogue module.

ps. just tested on both live and beta: you don't get any VW procs if target is not poisoned.