Rogue 6.0 patch notes

[Hitei]

I like the falling knives idea. You know I think they could take something like that concept and we could use it to kill two birds with one stone.

What if you took Death From Above and converted it into your idea for rain of knives finisher, then take the existing cool animation for DfA and reuse it as a new version of Shadow Reflection. Instead of a boring long cooldown that just copies your moves, the ability would be a lot cooler if it summoned a shadow who would immediately leap into the air and dive bomb your target. It'd look kinda cool, but wouldn't put you in danger since it's just an invulnerable pet doing the animation :P

Lol! I actually thought about that before I switched to the shadowy knives instead.

Combat Readiness and Nerve Strike also have little PvE impact. Nerve Strike is nice for the add on the final High Maul boss but usually it brings nothing to the table.

I mentioned that in the 75 tier line.

[Leih]

Yeah my initial instinct would be to have DfA just do that... but TWO shadow-summoning talents for our 100 tier? Probably a bit weird. But since Shadow Reflection is kind of lame anyway...

[Hitei]

Yeah my initial instinct would be to have DfA just do that... but TWO shadow-summoning talents for our 100 tier? Probably a bit weird. But since Shadow Reflection is kind of lame anyway...

I think the DfA as volley like AoE and Reflection as current DfA but clone doing it is a really cool idea. But I'm not sure how it could be accurately explained in a tweet (or even a couple) and the chances of a suggestion being read and considered by a higher up dev if posted in say, the beta forum's consolidated rogue feedback thread, seems like it'd be pretty low.

[Razhiel]

In regards to the post about Anticipation I was saying I wouldn't mind if it was baseline passive with 3~ cp overflow

Baseline passive with a 3CP overflow + a glyph to make it to 5CP for added flavor.

@Hitei

You should tweet and post (if you can ofc) your/our thoughts and the talent picture on the official Rogue feedback forum. Hopefully one of the devs at least takes a look at it.

Even though it is getting kinda late into development, i don't see any reason why they would ignore us. Worst case scenario, we get their feedback on the talents.

[Feali]

Even though it is getting kinda late into development, i don't see any reason why they would ignore us. Worst case scenario, we get their feedback on the talents.

You must be new here.

[Slashkill]

The only major thing I would add to that is something asking if we really need another cooldown which can end up killing us half the time when we use it because it messes with our positioning and takes so much control away from our character (Death From Above).

It's a gap closer in PvP.

[Leih]

It's a gap closer in PvP.

The feedback table Hitei was drawing up was giving PVE feedback.

[Razhiel]

You must be new here.

A few other class threads got at least some form of feedback from Sparklepony, after the last build was deployed.

I see no reason why the Rogues wouldn't at least get a response in the coming month.

Also, yes, i'm new. I've decided to join your ranks and spread some optimism in your pool of despair - hai o/

[Slashkill]

The feedback table Hitei was drawing up was giving PVE feedback.

That was obvious, but there is more to WoW than PvE. I mean, removing the "charge" element of the ability will probably be safer for PvE, but will remove an important feature in PvP.

All in all, DfA should either stay as it is or just go, imo.

Everything else I guess I agree with, however rogues are not the only class having dumb/boring/should-be-baseline talents. The whole talent system needs reworking.. again. I for one liked the old talent trees though, would love something even more in-depth like the PoE talent system but oh well, we're playing WoW aren't we.

[Leih]

That was obvious, but there is more to WoW than PvE. I mean, removing the "charge" element of the ability will probably be safer for PvE, but will remove an important feature in PvP.

What I meant was that I didn't go into PVP implications because it was just going to include PVE feedback anyways, and my post was long enough already.

Personally though I don't think the gap closer element is really necessary anyway, I'd rather see them buff Deadly Throw instead which serves practically the same purpose (spending CPs you earned to catch someone who's running away) or make Cloak and Dagger worth using. We have these kind of tools already, I don't think we need another one when they could just make the previous ones worth speccing for :/

[KeenEnthusiast9370]

rogue needs more attention so that its perfected. if they got serious about making it what it should be would only take a week of thinking about how it should be and done. honestly when they fix, it will be nice. until they change all the class' and then have to redo rogue again. combat is strictly pve useless in pvp. I like the idea of using one handed weapons for assassination and subtlety for a change. mut is required daggers and subtlety rotation requires daggers. they can keep a higher weapon % buff for the initial ability damage to keep the iconic dagger there. I just want the weapon restrictions to be open on the other two specs so that your not forced to use daggers for them. that would be a nice change.

quality of life improvement idea. I don't know if they thought of this but we should be able to stack 1 cp worth of slice and dice so that we could ramp up our rotation to a full 5 cp of slice and dice down the rotation. be a quick rupture 1-3 1-3 s&d then divert the rest of energy and cps into eviscerate-envenom. though seems to be fixed for assassination. slowly getting fixed which is catching my attention.

[Hitei]

You should tweet and post (if you can ofc) your/our thoughts and the talent picture on the official Rogue feedback forum. Hopefully one of the devs at least takes a look at it.

I will consider it, by the way, everyone should feel free to take that image and post/tweet/spam it wherever they want--I really made it for that, so that we'd have a way to quickly and easily link a summary of talent problems. specifically because twitter's 180 character limit makes it impossible to explain a sweeping issue like "talent problems" and twitter is also the place it seems easiest to get the attention of upper level devs.

That was obvious, but there is more to WoW than PvE. I mean, removing the "charge" element of the ability will probably be safer for PvE, but will remove an important feature in PvP.

All in all, DfA should either stay as it is or just go, imo.

My apologies, I tried to avoid making claims for PvP because the highest I've ever been in arena was ~1750 3s with friends, and that was as a warrior. So I didn't want to accidentally make any ignorant or presumption statements. Curious though, do you really feel we need another gap closer? especially since it's rather short range.

Everything else I guess I agree with, however rogues are not the only class having dumb/boring/should-be-baseline talents. The whole talent system needs reworking.. again. I for one liked the old talent trees though, would love something even more in-depth like the PoE talent system but oh well, we're playing WoW aren't we.

I was not a fan of the old talent trees, but I do agree that the new ones still need work. The problem with rogues specifically is that the awful talent issue (which I would honestly say without too much bias, is worst for rogues in terms of interesting choices) is on top of our already weak class identity, poor spec differentiation, and rather lackluster visuals, niche, and overall appeal.

Bad talents hurt a lot worse when there's nothing else good besides solid performance and occasionally being able to "cheat" boss mechanics.

Also, yes, i'm new. I've decided to join your ranks and spread some optimism in your pool of despair - hai o/

You will join us in the cult of despair soon enough.
Our disbelief in recieving changes or dev consideration comes from several expansions where we were in a state like this in previous betas... lots of scaling problems, not much interesting content, etc--And rogues would point this out over and over, and devs (towards the beginning of betas) would just say "Things aren't done yet, hold on." and then later in beta when issues still weren't being addressed it becomes "We're happy with the current state of rogues", or "Probably not going to be any major changes, already in tuning phase." and we get released with the problems and are awful until they are forced to hotfix them because of the abysmal rogue population and representation, and then we become powerful performance wise at the end of expansions and everyone hates us as the cycle starts all over again in the next beta.

So it's a lot easier to just expect no support from the devs.

[Slashkill]

My apologies, I tried to avoid making claims for PvP because the highest I've ever been in arena was ~1750 3s with friends, and that was as a warrior. So I didn't want to accidentally make any ignorant or presumption statements. Curious though, do you really feel we need another gap closer? especially since it's rather short range.

Well I've just stated that it is kind of a "charge" finisher in PvP, kind of combining Deadly Throw and Shadowstep. No need to apologize for sure. As a warlock I feel rogues don't need another gap closer, for sure. I'm not sure if I like the ability at all, it's like a combination of what rogues already have.. Neither I do really like the Shadow Clone, it's cool and all that, but it's yet ANOTHER short cooldown rogues have(had) plenty of, I thought Blizzard was trying to get rid of those... Venom Zest is extremely lazy design for a lvl 100 talent, too.

[Verain]

Combat Readiness and Nerve Strike also have little PvE impact.

Oddly, you can nerve strike Garrosh on live. If you stun an ally with kidney shot while they are MCed, at the end of the MC Garrosh gets Nerve Struck.




Combat Readiness is almost worthless in a raid, but it is arguably the strongest solo talent on the whole grid. I've never been a huge fan of combat readiness- roguewall is just very unreliable and the fact that a whole move is dead versus wizards (right next to evasion) has always been frustrating. I've been in favor of baseline deadly throw and a new move that is good against magic. However, the removal of minimum range makes deadly throw too good for baseline (IMO), and it is probably a valid pick now- I even just made a thread about it.

[Wow]

It's a gap closer in PvP.

No, its a big cc me sign in actual pvp and not random skirmishes.

[Mafic]

DfA is pretty much not going to be that popular for PVE or PVP in my opinion but we must wait for the patch notes today to see if they did anything with it. Shadow Reflection and Venom Rush will probably battle it out as popular talents for Rogues.

[Grayjoy]

Disappointing to hear venom rush is viable. It seems incredibly boring compared to the other two.

[DakonBlackblade]

Correct me if Im wrong but isnt Combat in a terrible bad state right now ? How does nerfing it helps the spec ?

Disappointing to hear venom rush is viable. It seems incredibly boring compared to the other two.

If youre on a fight like Darmac where keeping 3 targets poisoned is very easy its basicaly a perpetual 15% extra energy regen, cant see how the other 2 talents can compete with that.

[Eazy]

If youre on a fight like Darmac where keeping 3 targets poisoned is very easy its basicaly a perpetual 15% extra energy regen, cant see how the other 2 talents can compete with that.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm pretty sure that Grayjoy meant that this talent is just boring compared to the two others. Not that it's useless/bad.

[Msi]

So... I made a Rogue with this new build and ehm... wtf... is... this...