1. #1801
    It will depend on tuning, but if the relative initial damage of Stellar Flare and Starfire stays the same, Flare will be much stronger with any reasonable amount of Mastery. Especially since Blizzard intends to tune Mastery as our strongest secondary.
    How are you defining "reasonable amount"? By my calculations, StF needs something over 71% Mastery for its direct damage to beat the DPS of an empowered Starfire in CA.

    Stellar Flare Coef: 94.5%, gets to double-dips Mastery (*1.71) and has a 1.5s cast, giving 107.7% SP/s, before counting bonuses that also apply to SF.
    SF coef: 186.75%: 20% bonus from perk, 30% bonus from empowerment. Currently a 2.7s cast, comes in at 107.9% SP/s.
    At that point the SS you used to empower SF comes in at 280%/1.5s = 186.7% SP/s. You've also got three charges at the start of the fight. No reason not to use one early in CA.

    If haste is a better stat than Mastery, and you manage to have 71% Mastery, you may also be nearing the point where flare is below the 1s gcd cap, and that would also favor SF.
    Last edited by Erdluf; 2014-07-29 at 07:42 PM.

  2. #1802
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erdluf View Post
    How are you defining "reasonable amount"? By my calculations, StF needs something over 71% Mastery for its direct damage to beat the DPS of an empowered Starfire in CA.

    Stellar Flare Coef: 94.5%, gets to double-dips Mastery (*1.71) and has a 1.5s cast, giving 107.7% SP/s, before counting bonuses that also apply to SF.
    SF coef: 186.75%: 20% bonus from perk, 30% bonus from empowerment. Currently a 2.7s cast, comes in at 107.9% SP/s.
    At that point the SS you used to empower SF comes in at 280%/1.5s = 186.7% SP/s. You've also got three charges at the start of the fight. No reason not to use one early in CA.

    If haste is a better stat than Mastery, and you manage to have 71% Mastery, you may also be nearing the point where flare is below the 1s gcd cap, and that would also favor SF.
    When I was testing this one the dummy I always got one StF tick as I reapplied for another initial damage, are you factoring this in? Ofc if you have >1 target StF will guarantee a second tick atleast, and exponentially more on 3 and 4 targets upto a max of 5 iirc.

    I.e target 1 is ticking as you cast on target 2, targets 1 and 2 are ticking while casting on target 3 etc. Making StF pull ahead of ST at lower mastery levels against multiple targets.

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  3. #1803
    Quote Originally Posted by Erdluf View Post
    How are you defining "reasonable amount"? By my calculations, StF needs something over 71% Mastery for its direct damage to beat the DPS of an empowered Starfire in CA.
    Wrong. You need 71% Eclipse bonus, which translates to 41% Mastery. In Moonkin, we already have 25% mastery without any gear. 41% Mastery isn't all that much.

    It's also not unreasonable to assume that Blizzard intends to tune Mastery to be better than Haste once they actually get to that development stage, since the intended stat priority for all classes is primary > attuned secondary > other secondaries.

  4. #1804
    Dreadlord lappee's Avatar
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    71% eclipse bonus, 30% from eclipse itself, 15% passive mastery. Leaves 26% mastery to get from gear which is ~1452 mastery rating (with attunement). Moonkin form aura gives us 550 mastery rating leaving us at 902 mastery rating. Getting 902 rating from gear isnt hard, considering we can get up to max 455 from enchantments. (Correct me if im wrong with these!)

    But the question of whether or not to spam Stellar Flare during CA isnt as simple as checking Starfire and Stellar flare SP/secs, since you need to consider Starsurge usage as well. In no way you want to waste any Starsurges (getting procs when capped) nor do you want to overlap those empowerment buffs.

    So, do we want to cast Starsurge+Starfall, and spam Stellar Flare until CA ends. Or Just normal rotation Starsurge, 2x Starfire, repeat. Or a mix of Starsurge, 2x Starfire, Starsurge, Stellar flare spam. And at which point of mastery one is better than the other? What if you happen to get lots of procs Shooting Stars procs? The answers are simple, but getting there requires alot more than just "hey, at this point in mastery Stellar Flare is better than Starfire"

  5. #1805
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post

    So, do we want to cast Starsurge+Starfall, and spam Stellar Flare until CA ends. Or Just normal rotation Starsurge, 2x Starfire, repeat. Or a mix of Starsurge, 2x Starfire, Starsurge, Stellar flare spam. And at which point of mastery one is better than the other? What if you happen to get lots of procs Shooting Stars procs? The answers are simple, but getting there requires alot more than just "hey, at this point in mastery Stellar Flare is better than Starfire"
    If StF > empowered SF wouldn't we Starfall on 2 or more targets, or SS v1, spam StF and then SS just before leaving CA for empowered ST going into lunar eclipse (saving one SS for the next solar) this would allow us to regen SS procs (outside of shooting stars) for the 2.5 cycle you spoke about earlier. Any shooting stars procs during CA we would just dump into SS regardless of overwriting empowerments as long as SS>StF? [Being able to insta cast SS while StF is up also increases the value of that StF as you'll get SS+tick from Stf instead of just the initial damage].

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  6. #1806
    High Overlord Whyevernot's Avatar
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    My god all these abbreviations are actually making my head hurt.

  7. #1807
    Well, at least we usually won't have to decide whether we want to cast SF instead of SF, SF or SF. Those situations will be fairly obvious.

    Yes, we're now up to four spells.

  8. #1808
    If our biggest concern is renaming Starfall to Orbital Dump, for less ambiguous abbreviations, we must be in good shape.

  9. #1809
    Anyone tried the CA glyph? My guess is that will be awesome for leveling and early PvE especially if they decide to keep the long casts.

    But I'm not sure how it will work with StFl. SInce it's already a short cast, is it possible to fit more casts in the duration-CA or in the charges-CA ?

  10. #1810
    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    If StF > empowered SF wouldn't we Starfall on 2 or more targets, or SS v1, spam StF and then SS just before leaving CA for empowered ST going into lunar eclipse (saving one SS for the next solar) this would allow us to regen SS procs (outside of shooting stars) for the 2.5 cycle you spoke about earlier. Any shooting stars procs during CA we would just dump into SS regardless of overwriting empowerments as long as SS>StF? [Being able to insta cast SS while StF is up also increases the value of that StF as you'll get SS+tick from Stf instead of just the initial damage].
    Overall i would still like to see them change the Stellar flare to deal less initial damage and balance it out on the dot part, to prevent stupid rotations like this due to the double dip mechanic and at least give some value to the CA glyph.

    After secondary stat balancing and rating adjusting has been fully done, we can see how much damage we lose to haste @ various gear levels with StF spamming, as the time spent not casting is practically a % based damage loss. With BL, Berserk & haste from gear i have no doubt that we will go below GCD pretty fast if the haste rating/% value isn't fixed.

    And StF can't be > SS, because they both benefit from the double dip.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Anyone tried the CA glyph? My guess is that will be awesome for leveling and early PvE especially if they decide to keep the long casts.

    But I'm not sure how it will work with StFl. SInce it's already a short cast, is it possible to fit more casts in the duration-CA or in the charges-CA ?
    Well the time frame is 8 casts in 15 seconds, but since all instant casts like dots, SS and starfall also consume charges, i don't think the glyph has any value unless the tuning process causes us to favor Starfire more.
    Last edited by Vutk; 2014-07-30 at 11:21 AM.

  11. #1811
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vutk View Post
    Overall i would still like to see them change the Stellar flare to deal less initial damage and balance it out on the dot part, to prevent stupid rotations like this due to the double dip mechanic and at least give some value to the CA glyph.
    It's only really a 'stupid' rotation on single target, on 2-3 targets we'll be 'multi dotting' by pressing stellar flare 3 times in a row (which is the exact same 'rotation' as we'd do on single target). But just feels silly spam rewriting a dot on single target.

    And yes SS>StF if you're rewriting it, but again Starfall>SS on 2+ targets I'll stick with what I said @ lappe.
    Last edited by xtramuscle; 2014-07-30 at 11:38 AM.

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  12. #1812
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whyevernot View Post
    My god all these abbreviations are actually making my head hurt.
    What do you mean, with SF, StF and StFl isn't it super clear Stfl cannot possibly be Starfire? So it's only 50/50 guess is you're new to boomkin which one is Stellar Flare and which is Starfall. And then after that it's only another 50/50 guess which is SF and which is StF. SnF was obvious from the start.

    Imo with all those abbreviations so close to each other it seemed more appropriate to me to call Stellar Flare just Flare, but StF seems to have caught on already

  13. #1813
    High Overlord Whyevernot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miraclous View Post
    What do you mean, with SF, StF and StFl isn't it super clear Stfl cannot possibly be Starfire? So it's only 50/50 guess is you're new to boomkin which one is Stellar Flare and which is Starfall. And then after that it's only another 50/50 guess which is SF and which is StF. SnF was obvious from the start.

    Imo with all those abbreviations so close to each other it seemed more appropriate to me to call Stellar Flare just Flare, but StF seems to have caught on already
    I dont play this game to think!

    I get you people to do the thinking for me, and then i do the playing.

  14. #1814
    Herald of the Titans Lilija's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Anyone tried the CA glyph? My guess is that will be awesome for leveling and early PvE especially if they decide to keep the long casts.

    But I'm not sure how it will work with StFl. SInce it's already a short cast, is it possible to fit more casts in the duration-CA or in the charges-CA ?
    So far I'm using CA glyph because there aren't really many usefull major glyphs. W/o StFl it worked really well... especially with some running included. Currently, I'm getting used to StFl in the rotation (I still keep forgetting about it :P ) but generally it seems really similar to how it worked w/o StFl.

    Anyway, I'm bit confused about dps testing as the dummies in SW don't seem to have squish implemented (in fact it seems that it only works in Dreanor and new instances). Btw. was CA fixed last patch? I wasn't paying attention and I remember it was doing 20% less dmg before :P

    EDIT: CA still bugged
    Last edited by Lilija; 2014-07-30 at 01:04 PM.

  15. #1815
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilija View Post
    Anyway, I'm bit confused about dps testing as the dummies in SW don't seem to have squish implemented (in fact it seems that it only works in Dreanor and new instances). Btw. was CA fixed last patch? I wasn't paying attention and I remember it was doing 20% less dmg before :P

    EDIT: CA still bugged
    They probably didn't bother because it doesn't matter. You can't kill them anyway and they can't attack.

  16. #1816
    Quote Originally Posted by Vutk View Post
    Overall i would still like to see them change the Stellar flare to deal less initial damage and balance it out on the dot part, to prevent stupid rotations like this due to the double dip mechanic and at least give some value to the CA glyph.
    Glyph of CA is AMAZING for pvp and would probably be op if it had more charges. lmao same goes for the impact damage from StlF. lol there is another part of the game that the devs have to consider.
    Last edited by Criminalle; 2014-07-30 at 11:12 PM.

  17. #1817
    This is a forum not a text message

  18. #1818
    Quote Originally Posted by Criminalle View Post
    Glyph of CA is AMAZING for pvp and would probably be op if it had more charges. lmao same goes for the impact damage from StlF. lol there is another part of the game that the devs have to consider.
    Ofc the current form of StF is awesome for pvp, you can practically say it's broken for burst. The CA glyph value is a reference to the fact that the more SF we cast during CA the more valuable the glyph is

  19. #1819
    Understood. i thought u felt Ca's glyph was stale from a pve perspective. I was just alluding to the fact that its a rather god sent glyph for pvp. Cause once i got to 2000k arena ratings on live, i just get chain cc'd the second i click CA. As to the Stlflr i am slightly apprehensive, i believe it will be tuned(down) by the time CA is fixed, it is a rather strong talent, albeit boring. i just hope they don't shift the dmg from the direct dmg. Dispels are a mother******

    *Edited: cause Dolssonthedruid patrols these streets with pristine vigilence*

  20. #1820
    Honestly, they could just give it the moonfire/sunfire treatment, let it do 100% direct damage when you reach 0 energy, or maybe -15 / +15

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