Moonkin patchnotes

[lappee]

Euphoria still awful. (Worse than BOP's playstyle because BOP actually does something meaningful.)
BOP still boring. (Cant be helped I guess.)
StFl feels overnerfed. (Buff the other talents slightly -- StFl still needed the nerf, but keep DOT damage lower and impact damage a little higher)

Euphoria could actually be quite fun to play, if the talent just worked... No idea about the math around it tho + gets punished alot by starfalling.
BoP, just one word for it: Boring
StFl, nerf was justified. we'll still end up using it on multitarget + it still scales very well with mastery

[huth]

Euphoria still awful. (Worse than BOP's playstyle because BOP actually does something meaningful.)
BOP still boring. (Cant be helped I guess.)
StFl feels overnerfed. (Buff the other talents slightly -- StFl still needed the nerf, but keep DOT damage lower and impact damage a little higher)

If STFL(sounds like STFUs twin brother) gets buffed, i'd expect the main buff going to the DoT, since the DD part being strong is what makes us spam it.

I'll still take it over Bored of Power because... well, yeah.

[Gapezilla]

Nah man casting your dots once at the start of the fight and then just having them permanently up is totally awesome and engaging gameplay God bless you Blizz. /s

I was at a point where I really didn't care about our other two talents being shit because Flare was not only powerful but felt fun to use and manage, especially on multi-target. I guess the fun on multi-target won't change much however being forced into quite possibly the most boring 100 talent in the game for single target leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

[Miraclous]

Nah man casting your dots once at the start of the fight and then just having them permanently up is totally awesome and engaging gameplay God bless you Blizz. /s

I was at a point where I really didn't care about our other two talents being shit because Flare was not only powerful but felt fun to use and manage, especially on multi-target. I guess the fun on multi-target won't change much however being forced into quite possibly the most boring 100 talent in the game for single target leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Couldn't agree more. I think euphoria can be a really good talent though with an interesting switchup in pace with the 50% increased eclipse cycling. On singletarget it will probably synergise really well with SotF and balance 4p.

[Deleted]

Couldn't agree more. I think euphoria can be a really good talent though with an interesting switchup in pace with the 50% increased eclipse cycling. On singletarget it will probably synergise really well with SotF and balance 4p.

That's exactly what I thought when I saw our 4p bonus the other day.

[creamo42]

Euphoria is looking mighty tasty for pvp. Stellar Flare will just get us locked out of both trees, and BoP just seems awful for rbg's. Maybe 2's.

[Cyous]

Euphoria could actually be quite fun to play, if the talent just worked... No idea about the math around it tho + gets punished alot by starfalling.
BoP, just one word for it: Boring
StFl, nerf was justified. we'll still end up using it on multitarget + it still scales very well with mastery

Oh for sure. Euphoria could be fun, but SWE isn't exactly fun. A faster SWE wouldn't change much.
StFl's DD needs to be slightly higher (we won't spam it in CA, I'm not saying for it to get back to 75% SP). It needs higher impact, and less DOT damage. This helps keep the gap between multi-target closer.

More-so annoyed that Euphoria even exists at this point. Two of my options being simply the most non-interactive, non-exciting, talents is some sick joke. There are only so many suggestions I can give to Celestalon before I give up. I just really, really hate how math is king and "Is it fun?" takes a backseat in the majority of class design. I mean, look at Mario Kart: Double Dash -- honestly, probably the best game you could play with friends. Friendships are made and ruined in that game. It's fun, the balance is kinda shitty on some aspects (small karts are godly fast), but it's still fun.

There's nothing fun about Moonkins in WOD. It annoys me. (I'm considered switching mains many times.) Ultimately, I play to have fun. I know I won't have fun with the spec 2 years down the road --because I was sick of it 2 months into testing.

[omri1212000]

So how much dps could u pull on the Butcher? I felt depressed, running with BOP and trying Inca\Sotf...

Wasnt fun hitting starfire\wrath along with SS for the entire encounter. Balance druids are so boring, and nothig in the spec is challenging or intersting. time to reroll!

[Gapezilla]

Couldn't agree more. I think euphoria can be a really good talent though with an interesting switchup in pace with the 50% increased eclipse cycling. On singletarget it will probably synergise really well with SotF and balance 4p.

I'm looking forward to getting to test our 2pc/4pc to see if the class will remain fun at all. I'm not the kind of person who will reroll at the drop of a hat, although at the end of the day killing bosses is my primary motivator for raiding and class balance/fun is secondary... but that being said, I've loved my druid since I started playing this game, and seeing the spec in this state really bums me out.

[daerellin]

I'm looking forward to getting to test our 2pc/4pc to see if the class will remain fun at all. I'm not the kind of person who will reroll at the drop of a hat, although at the end of the day killing bosses is my primary motivator for raiding and class balance/fun is secondary... but that being said, I've loved my druid since I started playing this game, and seeing the spec in this state really bums me out.

I'm in the same situation. I was fairly excited to get into raiding when I saw the initial changes we were getting, but with the way things are now.. Having no real way to "be extraordinary", I just feel like a body in the group. All excitement has faded, and been replaced with a healthy dose of "Meh."

[xtramuscle]

The thing that killed it for me, was standing next to another boomkin @ raid testing, and watch our hands, and spell effects we played the EXACT SAME ROTATION with no intuition at all. And in an ideal world, supposing we're both playing it correctly that's the way it should be. You could have a line of lazer chickens all playing exactly the same and i find that horrible. Bring back snap shotting or something this feels rough.

Playing flare on twin ogron twins is a total cluster fuck. i guess its the fight mechanics that give us our complexity now, and the butcher just doesnt have that.

[Criminalle]

Removing all snapshotting is still my most disliked change so far this beta. Another reason for the general bumness is that the Balance lvl 100 talents are preety boring and unspectacular.

I said this back when they first removed snapshotting this made StlrFlare( along with our other dots) a rather boring talents. This problem was amplified by the (deserved) Nerf to the spell. Now its just a Mf/SF Dot, with a cast time. I am not sure the dmg it does justifies the potential double school lockout in PVP.
Ifind both other 100 talents EXTREMLY bland. I mean im sorry but BOP is just a lackluster talent that sounds like a placeholder. I mean our dots have 40 and 20 second durations do we realy need help maintaining their up times? plus during times when we have to move we will spam these dots for the direct damage....

I was one of the people tht was happy for the change to balance, and i STRONGLY disliked the endgame MOP Balance druid( dot ss spam). That said just dont feel like blizz knows what their doing with moonkin this expac. There is no clear direction, which ismade evident when 2 o/3 lvl 100 talents hav near pointless effects

- StlrFlre Telling you the spell does ideal dmg when your eclipse is equal...but the dmg gained when equal vs not equal is MINIMAL, and the Dot doesn't snapshot... pointless niche
- Balance of power increasing dot times on dots that are extremly easy to maintan cause of their already high up-times...pointless niche
I just dont think blizzard has a clear direction for this class as a whole right now....and i dont think they will before launch....this may be a problem that gets properly adressed halfway thru WOD.

[lappee]

So, Stellar Flare gets nerfed and this outcry happens that has nothing to do with Stellar Flare? Thats quite something

[Deleted]

Blizzard claims that they listen to feedback. If the complaints are too few, they prolly think that the majority is fine with it. If you state your complaint like "many ppl believe this", they don't take it serious because you don't know what the majority thinks (or so they say). So, all that remains is to have many single complaints at a time. That being said, let us all complain to Celestalon this weekend with whatever each and every one of us doesn't like.

I personally don't like the boredom of our 100 talents and the fact that the dps was nerfed too much. Talents in general should have a big enough impact on gameplay, be it more passive or (re)active (level 100 talents in particular should follow this rule). How much dmg % do these talents give for single target? Less than 5%? If the gain is so low, it doesn't even matter what talent you pick.

Boredomia - didn't get to test the reduced cycle time because it never worked, but I don't see why it would be of much use in PVE, other than DoC synergy and occasional sunfire availability.
Stellar Boredom - unless I'm missing something, this now hits for about the same as a non-empowered starfire, for half the cast time and can be used every 20 sec in single target. Even in multi target I don't see it being that godly. Moon/sunfire are still higher in priority list, and then you have SS charges to take care of anyway, which are more important than flare.
Balance of Boredom - I'm getting sleepy just by reading the tooltip /yawn

Let the tweeting begin!

[Deleted]

Blizzard claims that they listen to feedback. If the complaints are too few, they prolly think that the majority is fine with it. If you state your complaint like "many ppl believe this", they don't take it serious because you don't know what the majority thinks (or so they say). So, all that remains is to have many single complaints at a time. That being said, let us all complain to Celestalon this weekend with whatever each and every one of us doesn't like.

I personally don't like the boredom of our 100 talents and the fact that the dps was nerfed too much. Talents in general should have a big enough impact on gameplay, be it more passive or (re)active (level 100 talents in particular should follow this rule). How much dmg % do these talents give for single target? Less than 5%? If the gain is so low, it doesn't even matter what talent you pick.

Boredomia - didn't get to test the reduced cycle time because it never worked, but I don't see why it would be of much use in PVE, other than DoC synergy and occasional sunfire availability.
Stellar Boredom - unless I'm missing something, this now hits for about the same as a non-empowered starfire, for half the cast time and can be used every 20 sec in single target. Even in multi target I don't see it being that godly. Moon/sunfire are still higher in priority list, and then you have SS charges to take care of anyway, which are more important than flare.
Balance of Boredom - I'm getting sleepy just by reading the tooltip /yawn

Let the tweeting begin!

They need to revamp both euphoria and BoP, StlF is fine if the damage is increased, since it creates some interesting gameplay when it's high in the priority list. Just have the other level 100 talents be balance accordingly to StlF damage. I still think we need an AoE option for level 100 talents and tbh i still think that WM: Detonate wouldn't be that bad, with a few modifications of course.

[Gapezilla]

So, Stellar Flare gets nerfed and this outcry happens that has nothing to do with Stellar Flare? Thats quite something

It has everything to do with Stellar Flare. In its (admittedly overpowered) pre-nerf state the spell was fun to use, added interaction. and made you feel more powerful, especially in multi-target. The problem was it was so powerful that it was the best in literally every situation. It got nerfed, that's fine, that was needed. But now we are forced into taking infinitely more boring, and frankly lazily designed talents for single target as a direct result of flare being weaker.

[lappee]

It has everything to do with Stellar Flare. In its (admittedly overpowered) pre-nerf state the spell was fun to use, added interaction. and made you feel more powerful, especially in multi-target. The problem was it was so powerful that it was the best in literally every situation. It got nerfed, that's fine, that was needed. But now we are forced into taking infinitely more boring, and frankly lazily designed talents for single target as a direct result of flare being weaker.

It started doing that after the nerfs to every other spell beforehand and no1 whined like this at that time. Currently its the same as it was couple builds ago rotational wise, only now other talents are on par with it.

Basically you're saying that "This spec is no longer fun because we arent ridiculously op"

[xtramuscle]

Right now I feel the rotation has very little depth. Single target its boring as fuck, mutli target its a cluster fuck, but we'll get used to that. Having boss timers etc will have a massive impact on how we deal with rotation and CDs etc. That will make multi-dot manageable, but If I'm falling asleep playing single target now, imagine how we'll feel after 4 hours of raiding the same mythic boss only pressing 4 buttons.

I'm fine with boss mechanics giving us some depth to the fights, but it shouldn't be the make or break of a CLASS. And right now it really is. We need snap shotting or something back to stop it being played perfectly with a 1 button macro imo.

[lappee]

@xtramuscle, that has been the case ever since the first beta notes - only now people complain about it due to being on par with other dps specs

[Deleted]

I'm very curious how well you're performing after the recent changes.

And yea ppl didnt complain as much (they still complained about the other 2 talents) because stellar flare was at least a good talent. It added a significant increase to the overall dmg and added something to the rotation. With current tuning, even making perfect use of stellar flare, your dmg is not really impacted. That's boring, and if you keep seeing yourself far from the top of the dmg meters, you kinda feel bad at some point.