[Mage-WoD] Mage Beta Discussion

[Kuni Zyrekai]

I know we will have different glyphs, the point was that taking glyph of slow means sacrifice your third glyph slot, no matter what. The only scenario where glyph of slow doesn't imply a real loss, is if the glyphs are so bad for an arcane mage that losing your third glyph slot doesn't matter, and this scenario is even worse than the one we are talking about :P.

Debatable. One could argue that having an integral part of your spec locked into a glyph is the worse situation.

About Ice Nova, I checked it on wowhead, it says 1.5sec gcd, but as you say, the wowhead's spell details says "stun effect", but I guess (hope) it's a bug because the tooltip says "freezing".

Same flag as Ring's freeze, which is what interested me. If they've got the datamining right, which is a huuuuuge if, it could very well work like a very short duration RoF. I have to wonder how it'll DR if this is all correct.

Looked at Bomb talents once again. Frost Bomb still has cast time, was there something about it twitter? Isn't cast time too harsh of a penalty for a spell that might not have a chance to deal damage at all?

The idea is that you don't even cast it until you're sitting on 2-3 FoF charges. It's not something that needs to be up 100% of the time, unlike the other two bombs. It has some pretty absurd potential given the right fight...

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and the level 90 talents? Meteor is the only one I approve of, the others seem shitty. (FIX IT BLIZZ)!

Crystal has some potentially fun interactions, especially as Fire.

[Sereas]

• That [Amplify Magic] is an useless spell for ourselves (which does not happen with the other raid utility skills).
• That [Amplify Magic] requires that the group has other classes with a certain specific role (healing) to be of any use (which does not happen with the other raid utility skills).

Doesn't matter, because we already have strong self utility. This CD is meant to give raid leaders a reason to bring mages to a raid. It will achieve that.

[Frost1129]

Yes, that's wonderful, but you need to comment a couple of less positive points:

• That [Amplify Magic] is an useless spell for ourselves (which does not happen with the other raid utility skills).
  
  
• That [Amplify Magic] requires that the group has other classes with a certain specific role (healing) to be of any use (which does not happen with the other raid utility skills).
  
  
• That mages are not a healer class, so mages increasing the healing of the whole raid is totally illogical and sounds ridiculous ...

Mages are masters of magic. Not everything we do needs to blow shit up. It's cool that we get something like +20% healing recieved, it means we are bringing more to a raid than just DPS and personal cooldowns. Not everything we do needs to buff us.

This is a good CD. I think it's much better than other raid CDs from a DPS/Healer interaction standpoint, since instead of just bombing healing / reducing damage taken (which is the healers job) we're just enabling them to do their job better. No toes are stepped on, healers don't need to feel like other roles are taking away from their gameplay, HP levels are still completely under their control.

[charizma]

i hate amplify magic. A mage's job is to deal damage, and lots of it. I don't want to be constantly yelled at by healers and raid leaders to pop amplify magic right in the middle of my rotation to help out with their healing, its not my damn job.

[mrgreenthump]

"We" wanted a raid cooldown. Now we got it and a rather decent one too. So yeah, guess it's impossible to please us.. No wonder Blizzard doesn't listen us most of the time.

[Imnick]

If you consider "once every two minutes at most, but realistically there's no fight where you will cast it exactly as it comes off cooldown, every time" to be "constantly" then I do worry for your attention span.

[Frost1129]

Oh and the level 90 talents? Meteor is the only one I approve of, the others seem shitty. (FIX IT BLIZZ)!

Disagree. All the lvl 90 talents look really interesting, especially with stuff like Incanter's Flow.

[Deleted]

Disagree. All the lvl 90 talents look really interesting, especially with stuff like Incanter's Flow.

I don't understand how you can be okay with the crystal for example, I mean if the tank moves... ALL that damage will be lost, and just imagine how this will work in a not that coordinated raid, it'll be catastrophic. It reminds me of RoP in some ways and I dislike it.

[Frost1129]

I don't understand how you can be okay with the crystal for example, I mean if the tank moves... ALL that damage will be lost, and just imagine how this will work in a not that coordinated raid, it'll be catastrophic. It reminds me of RoP in some ways and I dislike it.

You use your brain and drop it when there are no abilities coming out that forces the tank to move. Tanks don't just randomly move around.

If you're in a non-coordinated group with a tank that is moving for no reason, you don't take the talent. You take the left or right talents. The talent becomes a choice - which is what they are supposed to be. It works nicely with the other talents. Left talent provides extended dmg / more frequent burst from cooldowns. Middle talent provides a short period of high burst. Right talent provides immediate AoE damage styled burst.

[Imnick]

How often does the tank move and you don't know about it though?

Immerseus: The boss is literally glued to the floor
Protectors: One boss doesn't move, other two move in extremely predictable fashion.
Norushen: The boss is literally glued to the floor
Sha of Pride: The boss is literally glued to the floor
Galakras: There is no reason the boss would ever move, the adds are always in the same place
Iron Juggernaut: There is no reason the boss would ever move
Dark Shamans: One of the few bosses that don't really stay still often, but you could probably still get away with it with some forethought
Nazgrim: The boss pretty much stays tanked in one corner the whole fight and doesn't move
Malkorok: The boss either never moves or moves in an incredibly predictable pattern (whenever he uses breath of yshaarj, very infrequently)
Spoils: These ones might be a bit mobile
Thok: Definitely times where it might be hard to use here :P
Siegecrafter: Moves in a predictable timed pattern, if at all
Paragons: Apart from the annoying ones that move when they attack, should be basically stationary
Garrosh: Doesn't move very much

Bosses are spoiling to be even less mobile in WoD, what with our reduction of cast while moving spells, and the spell should be trivial to use properly in Siege of Orgrimmar.

Why do people keep having the bizarre idea that tanks run all over the place for no reason? They don't! Bosses usually hardly move at all!

[Aeluron Lightsong]

A unique raid CD that is actually a little bit stronger than some other, no less.

Don't mention it to the Rets on here. They'll foam at the mouth.

[Frost1129]

How often does the tank move and you don't know about it though?

Immerseus: The boss is literally glued to the floor
Protectors: One boss doesn't move, other two move in extremely predictable fashion.
Norushen: The boss is literally glued to the floor
Sha of Pride: The boss is literally glued to the floor
Galakras: There is no reason the boss would ever move, the adds are always in the same place
Iron Juggernaut: There is no reason the boss would ever move
Dark Shamans: One of the few bosses that don't really stay still often, but you could probably still get away with it with some forethought
Nazgrim: The boss pretty much stays tanked in one corner the whole fight and doesn't move
Malkorok: The boss either never moves or moves in an incredibly predictable pattern (whenever he uses breath of yshaarj, very infrequently)
Spoils: These ones might be a bit mobile
Thok: Definitely times where it might be hard to use here :P
Siegecrafter: Moves in a predictable timed pattern, if at all
Paragons: Apart from the annoying ones that move when they attack, should be basically stationary
Garrosh: Doesn't move very much

Bosses are spoiling to be even less mobile in WoD, what with our reduction of cast while moving spells, and the spell should be trivial to use properly in Siege of Orgrimmar.

Why do people keep having the bizarre idea that tanks run all over the place for no reason? They don't! Bosses usually hardly move at all!

Preach it, Brother Imnick!

[Elegiac]

Why do people keep having the bizarre idea that tanks run all over the place for no reason? They don't! Bosses usually hardly move at all!

Prismatic Crystal is an iffy idea for the same reason that Lightwell was an iffy idea back in the day. It puts the benefit out of the hands of the caster.

[Frost1129]

Prismatic Crystal is an iffy idea for the same reason that Lightwell was an iffy idea back in the day. It puts the benefit out of the hands of the caster.

That's bullshit and you know it.

Lightwell was shit because it required OTHER people to click it to make it good. The crystal will be auto targeted on cast, and doesnt require ANY outside intervention. You control the damage that goes into / comes out of the crystal.

[Imnick]

The benefit is entirely in your hands though?

Tanks don't run around the room for no reason. This is literally never a thing that happens. All boss movement is choreographed.


If this argument was about PvP you'd maybe have more of a point, but people keep talking this bullshit that bosses might move at any moment without warning when if they've actually raided they'd know that just isn't a thing, at all, ever.

[Elegiac]

The benefit is entirely in your hands though?

Tanks don't run around the room for no reason. This is literally never a thing that happens. All boss movement is choreographed.


If this argument was about PvP you'd maybe have more of a point, but people keep talking this bullshit that bosses might move at any moment without warning when if they've actually raided they'd know that just isn't a thing, at all, ever.

I've had plenty of situations where bosses have been moved willy nilly. Moreover, with an 8 yard range that presents a very small margin of error.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

I've had plenty of situations where bosses have been moved willy nilly. Moreover, with an 8 yard range that presents a very small margin of error.

Then clearly Frozen Orb is worthless in all situations and is a horrible spell that can't ever be utilized.

[Elegiac]

Then clearly Frozen Orb is worthless in all situations and is a horrible spell that can't ever be utilized.

Additionally, there is the issue of why it is suddenly acceptable to have to use a target reticle rotationally.

[Frost1129]

I've had plenty of situations where bosses have been moved willy nilly. Moreover, with an 8 yard range that presents a very small margin of error.

I'm calling bullshit on this. You are not even thinking at this point. Go read Imnick's post he made a few back. Some of the SoO bosses don't even have the fucking ability to be moved. And how big do you think most of the movable ones hitboxes are? (hint: they are quite large)

- - - Updated - - -

Additionally, there is the issue of why it is suddenly acceptable to have to use a target reticle rotationally.

You're running on fumes now. We don't know how it is being implemented.

[Frah]

I've had plenty of situations where bosses have been moved willy nilly. Moreover, with an 8 yard range that presents a very small margin of error.

I will use my same argument that I have used with some other ability I forget what it is.

If you are on a boss where the boss does move randomly then crystal will not be optimal and you should pick another talent. If you do not then it is your fault for not being smart enough to select the correct talent not the tank for doing his job (even if it is done badly). There are other choices and choices should be optimal under different conditions. If ability's are meant to be good for all conditions then 1 will always be top and win in all situations. Ability's must be different enough and be situational enough that make choice important less we end up with yet another expansion of cookie cutter builds.