[Mage-WoD] Mage Beta Discussion

[Trylldom]

With Thermal Void, you can keep icy veins up forever, as long as you spam a few ice lances its a net gain in buff duration. However with Overpowered, the bonus added time is immediately used up by the missiles that proc'd it.

The fire version of this talent I assume will be the default choice once you start to get a reasonable crit level. I dont wanna do the math, but the uptime on combustion im only guessing will be very high. Now buff combustion on beta so we can start testing fire already....

[Frost1129]

The fire version of this talent I assume will be the default choice once you start to get a reasonable crit level. I dont wanna do the math, but the uptime on combustion im only guessing will be very high. Now buff combustion on beta so we can start testing fire already....

Due to how PC works with combustion, Kindling will likely never be a reasonable option in its current state. To even be equal to PC, it would need ~50% CD reduction, which it doesn't get near. And that's not taking into account the fact that PC is also amping a bunch of damage you're doing.

[Deleted]

Due to how PC works with combustion, Kindling will likely never be a reasonable option in its current state. To even be equal to PC, it would need ~50% CD reduction, which it doesn't get near. And that's not taking into account the fact that PC is also amping a bunch of damage you're doing.

An exception could be AoE fights because damage from PC is split (or constantly moving bosses ).

[Imnick]

It does seem very odd to me that both PC and Meteor do split damage, but the passive tier doesn't, and Arcane Orb seems explicitly designed for AOE.
Bit of a conflict of design goals.

[87Octane]

It does seem very odd to me that both PC and Meteor do split damage, but the passive tier doesn't, and Arcane Orb seems explicitly designed for AOE.
Bit of a conflict of design goals.

Arcane Orb is primarily to generate charges I think, but yeah I'm having trouble keeping all of the different AOE's straight. You have AOE's meant for AOEing, then you have AOE's that are still good for primary targets, then you have incidental AOE's, then you have AOE's with secondary effects that are more important than the damage itself... ugh.

I wish they would detach AOE from all of the talents except row 75. Give all three specs a Molten/Arcane/Frost Orb baseline, and a way to reduce the CD while using Flamestrike/ArcExplosion/blizzard. Row 75 would give you an extra AOE spell if you needed in the form of the third talent, the bomb being the talent that favored single target moreso, and unstable magic for a passive choice. Frost Orb is a really good mechanic because it's an AOE that also grants single target bonuses (The previous orbs didn't for other specs for some reason) - I think every spec should get one mainly because it synergizes too well with the new talents, and fire/arcane could use some more interesting additions to their rotation.


There's just too much AOE dropped randomly about and frost is looking too heavy on incidental AOE, normally i'm not pro homogenization - i swear!

[Elegiac]

It does seem very odd to me that both PC and Meteor do split damage, but the passive tier doesn't, and Arcane Orb seems explicitly designed for AOE.
Bit of a conflict of design goals.

Considering that Arcane lacks any native ranged AoE except Barrage, I don't find this problematic.

[Imnick]

Considering that Arcane lacks any native ranged AoE except Barrage, I don't find this problematic.

I have no problem with that, what I think is odd is that it's in the same tier as a talent which seems basically designed to be worse the more targets it hits.

[Polarthief]

It does seem very odd to me that both PC and Meteor do split damage, but the passive tier doesn't, and Arcane Orb seems explicitly designed for AOE.
Bit of a conflict of design goals.

Same with making Mage the most mobile caster in the game (well, Frost and Fire at least), and then having something like Rune of Power tie them down

I have no problem with that, what I think is odd is that it's in the same tier as a talent which seems basically designed to be worse the more targets it hits.

IMO they should remove the damage split thing and only put it in for PvP. Cuz, y'know, funzies.

- - - Updated - - -

Nothing new in the build notes. Just some stuff about other classes and CC. (Source: Bluetracker for today)

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Nothing new in the build notes. Just some stuff about other classes and CC. (Source: Bluetracker for today)

Not entirely surprised. Given Blizz's stance that Fire doesn't need mechanical changes, all we're really looking for are numbers tuning and a few relatively minor issues to see how it all shakes out.

[Elegiac]

Not entirely surprised. Given Blizz's stance that Fire doesn't need mechanical changes, all we're really looking for are numbers tuning and a few relatively minor issues to see how it all shakes out.

Which is idiotic on their part because the Fire rotation is awful as all hell.

[Polarthief]

Not entirely surprised. Given Blizz's stance that Fire doesn't need mechanical changes, all we're really looking for are numbers tuning and a few relatively minor issues to see how it all shakes out.

Except PC, the left L100 talent, the L90 talent MESS (for yet another expansion), UM being horribly undertuned, MI and Frost Bomb being ridiculously overtuned, and Fire actually being horrible. There's so much they need to do and aren't doing it. Making me fret about WoD.

Which is idiotic on their part because the Fire rotation is awful as all hell.

FB x infinity, sometimes IB, Pyro when it procs, Combustion for 0 damage. YUP, SEEMS COMPLETE TO ME.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Except PC, the left L100 talent, the L90 talent MESS (for yet another expansion), UM being horribly undertuned, MI and Frost Bomb being ridiculously overtuned, and Fire actually being horrible. There's so much they need to do and aren't doing it. Making me fret about WoD.

Tuning, tuning (TV is roughly the same gain as Comet Storm at the moment, but I can't speak to the other two), opinion, tuning, tuning, Blizz says Fire doesn't need mechanical changes. Doesn't invalidate what I said.

[Grubjuice]

Same with making Mage the most mobile caster in the game (well, Frost and Fire at least), and then having something like Rune of Power tie them down

when will they realize that runes of power ought to be either a cooldown or resource; not a tether or anchor? <le sigh>

[Polarthief]

Tuning, tuning (TV is roughly the same gain as Comet Storm at the moment, but I can't speak to the other two), opinion, tuning, tuning, Blizz says Fire doesn't need mechanical changes. Doesn't invalidate what I said.

I meant the mechanics of PC, the mechanics of the left L100 talent (TV is decent; referring to OP and Kindling that NO ONE will take in their current forms), opinion or not they removed Invo and IW for that reasoning but now kept RoP and are finding huge balance issues because people will be forced to take it since it's too good/won't ever take it because it's not good enough, UM MI and FB I'll give you (though IMO UM should be changed because it's an awkward proc that's also passive vs on demand burst, so it'll ALWAYS be significantly worse than the other two choices), and just because Blizzard says something doesn't mean it's true. This is a case of Blizzard saying "We say what's fun so therefore it's fun".

when will they realize that runes of power ought to be either a cooldown or resource; not a tether or anchor? <le sigh>

As soon as Celestalon lets go of his boner for it.

[Erolian]

I just don't understand what RoP really adds to the game. I'm not sure what a totem I stand in when I already would want to move as little as possible to begin with adds other than frustration and slight planning you learn after a few pulls and then its irrelevant

[Pyromelter]

when will they realize that runes of power ought to be either a cooldown or resource; not a tether or anchor? <le sigh>

I would like to think that many of us en masse hitting the unsub button would give them the message.

But I have a feeling that they don't care that what once was one of the most popular wow classes is now in the bottom third.

Prismatic Crystal and the fact that they didn't actually blow up RoP should be evidence enough to show you that they do not care.

[Fennixx]

Which is idiotic on their part because the Fire rotation is awful as all hell.

3 months ago - "wait, its still alpha. Can't comment on alpha build. It's too early!"
Now - "beta is beta. Wait"
Live ---> "give Blizz some time. WoD just went live"!
Mid-WoD ---> "Can't do drastic changes mid expansion"
WoD final patch -> "Hey, we have some crazy ideas for next expasion. Pre-order and get cookie" (lol)
Also...
"Combustion does too much dmg as it is . We're nerfing by an additional 25%. kkthxbye"

[Pyromelter]

I just don't understand what RoP really adds to the game. I'm not sure a totem I stand in when I already would want to move as little as possible to begin with adds other than frustration and slight planning you learn after a few pulls and then its irrelevant

It's 100% bad game design. Blizzard has removed virtually every self-rooting talent and skill in the game (shaman totems, sniper training, etc), and added it to mages. There are apologists for the talent, but other than those few masochists, it is the most universally reviled talent in all of wow. One can only conclude what it adds is a demonstration of complete incompetence of the game design team as it pertains to mages.

[Fennixx]

It's 100% bad game design. Blizzard has removed virtually every self-rooting talent and skill in the game (shaman totems, sniper training, etc), and added it to mages. There are apologists for the talent, but other than those few masochists, it is the most universally reviled talent in all of wow. One can only conclude what it adds is a demonstration of complete incompetence of the game design team as it pertains to mages.

According to some forum posters here, RoP does not bind you. Even when it does, its your fault. "L2P!" or "Pray" (there is a guide over here that tells you to "Pray" on high movement scenario lol).

OT: I don't think RoP will be changed much. They like it. Lets just hope it doesn't turn to be absolute best choice DPS wise - so we can ignore it.

[mrgreenthump]

You could fix RoP by increasing it's radius by 40 or 50 yards