[Mage-WoD] Mage Beta Discussion

[Deleted]

Mana management for Frost and Fire is non-existent. Look at mana regen when using Incanter's Ward on Live and that's pretty close to what it is on Beta(I think it's a bit higher on Beta actually)

[Polarthief]

I assume mana regen is insanely better, but how does it interact with Spellsteal?

That is sort of a problem and something that they need to fix with Spellsteal. Making the spell cost the obscenely unheard of 20% mana is quite ridiculous. Mana regen is a bit more normalized, but it's still something that needs addressing if you spam it. You won't have much problem continuing a rotation as you'll never go below 90% mana with all the free-costing spells you get as Fire and Frost, but you can't spellsteal over and over.

It'd be really nice if they could make a glyph of Spellsteal that drops the mana cost to 10% of what it is now, but turns Spellsteal into Purge (doesn't steal).

- - - Updated - - -

Mana management for Frost and Fire is non-existent. Look at mana regen when using Incanter's Ward on Live and that's pretty close to what it is on Beta(I think it's a bit higher on Beta actually)

It's a bit lower than that. If you were to spam mana-costing spells, you would eventually run out, but you get a ton of mana in the global when you cast a free spell (procs).

[Deleted]

Sad to hear that the class is in such a bad state on the beta. Thanks anyway.

[Polarthief]

Sad to hear that the class is in such a bad state on the beta. Thanks anyway.

Overall it's not that bad, it's just very clunky. Oh, and glyphs are a fucking mess; really wish they'd give those a look because they're as cookie cutter as they get right now.

[Frost1129]

What's "clunky" in your vocab? The only thing that comes close to that is PC for Fire, but two simple macros can fix that.

[Orrin]

Overall it's not that bad, it's just very clunky. Oh, and glyphs are a fucking mess; really wish they'd give those a look because they're as cookie cutter as they get right now.

Yep, I would prefer more definite characterization. You already used this word twice on last two pages and all I understand is you don't like things defined as 'clunky'

[Kazuchika]

Sad to hear that the class is in such a bad state on the beta. Thanks anyway.

This is not even remotely true.

[Deleted]

I fear these.. "clunkyness", too. If we have to use Prismatic Crystal/Meteor + Rune of Power, we have a lot of "set at ground" effects and I fear this might break the casting flow. But I don't know if it's the same thing Polarthief means by it.^^"

[Polarthief]

What's "clunky" in your vocab? The only thing that comes close to that is PC for Fire, but two simple macros can fix that.

Clunky is when you have too many buttons to press (especially cooldowns), the gameplay is redundant, or overall, it just feels weird (not bad/good, just weird). In this case, it's the first answer.

- Frostbolt
- Ice Lance (up to x2)
- Frostfire Bolt (up to x2)
*- Freeze/Water Jet (and WJ is very clunky, especially when it has a cast time AND only counts when Frostbolts hit, not when cast)
*- Frozen Orb
**- Frost Bomb (requires timing) or Ice Nova (up to x2) (or UM as a passive, if, y'know, you're bad)
**- L90 talent (or gaming IF which is still another thing you have to constantly watch and pay attention to)
*- Prismatic Crystal (or TV/CS if, again, you're a bad; CS is also a cooldown anyways)
*- Icy Veins

Bolded = Added with WoD (FBomb counted due to being completely different)
* = Has a cooldown
** = At least one of the potential choices has a cooldown

I mean, just look at the cooldowns of varying length we have here. Look how many WoD is adding alone. It just feels clunky when trying to execute all the different cooldowns and trying not to waste any cooldown time. Then you constantly have to watch all the cooldowns (again, all of varying length), in addition to IF if you picked it. I feel like in trying to "remove spells", they actually added too many to Frost because Frost already had a fair bit to it.

As far as Arcane goes, it feels a lot better, especially with Arcane no longer being 100% forced to go Rune (and only forced on fights that are standstill... unless you dislike IF if MI will be under them both), having Arcane Orb, and other instants. The only problem I have with Arcane is that NT shouldn't require charges to do decent damage. It's very awkward to have to use it in that fashion. Fire feels a bit better than Frost, but not by much. With the low levels of Crit we're working with and the stacking crit only affecting Fireball/Frostfire Bolt (IMO it should affect Scorch as well), it feels very slow and once you run out of other buttons to press, you're usually spamming Scorch/FB/FFB unless you get lucky or your stacks get high enough, and even then, it's unlikely your Pyroblast will crit.

This is the first expansion where I've actually contemplated going Arcane and not being forced to do so; it just feels the most fun (PLUS IT HAS FUCKING IMPROVED BLINK!!! <3<3<3)

Yep, I would prefer more definite characterization. You already used this word twice on last two pages and all I understand is you don't like things defined as 'clunky'

Haha, I know, but it's the only word I can think of for Frost... maybe "too many chefs in the kitchen"?

I fear these.. "clunkyness", too. If we have to use Prismatic Crystal/Meteor + Rune of Power, we have a lot of "set at ground" effects and I fear this might break the casting flow. But I don't know if it's the same thing Polarthief means by it.^^"

Well I typically don't like ground effects, especially when I'm forced to stand in it. Rune is just shitty to me, and PC is not only clunky, but also has caused more problems than pretty much anything else in testing (I mean, it seems like every other build, something has to get changed or nerfed because of how much potential it has to break mechanics), but it's more than just ground effects.

Just play Frost with the following talent choices: FB or IN, MI or IF, PC or CS, and you'll feel like there might be a few too many buttons on your bar, especially when you're trying to optimize your down/uptimes on all of their uses.

- - - Updated - - -

Alright here's the new build: More buffs to Fire, nerf to Alter Time, and... that's pretty much it. Also, Meteor might be getting some changes in how long it takes to fall (went from 3s to "until cancelled". Obviously a bug, but who knows what the new time will be). They also forgot to buff Frostfire Bolt's base damage in this build and nerf BF even further.

It's also a little rude to update Kindling to include FFB and completely ignore the rest of the L100 talents, especially Comet Storm and the left choice that NO ONE will ever pick.

[Orrin]

Does anyone know what 'until canceled' in meteor tooltip means? It doesn't land after dixet amount of time after cast? You can control landing time?

Calls down a meteor which lands at the target location after 3 sec until cancelled

[Polarthief]

Does anyone know what 'until canceled' in meteor tooltip means? It doesn't land after dixet amount of time after cast? You can control landing time?

It's a bad datamine. We'll know when our clients are updated and maintenance is over.

Whenever you see "until cancelled" in a new build and it doesn't make sense, it's usually a bad datamine.

Edit: Apparently maintenance will be short.

[Orrin]

Well I typically don't like ground effects, especially when I'm forced to stand in it. Rune is just shitty to me, and PC is not only clunky, but also has caused more problems than pretty much anything else in testing (I mean, it seems like every other build, something has to get changed or nerfed because of how much potential it has to break mechanics), but it's more than just ground effects.

*my obligatory rant about how much I agree with you and how excessive ground targeting is stupid for single target rotation*

[Ryken]

Does anyone know what 'until canceled' in meteor tooltip means? It doesn't land after dixet amount of time after cast? You can control landing time?

"Until cancelled" is pretty much a datamining error, every time you see this in mmo-champ patch notes, it means the duration of the spell can't be datamined properly. This has happened a bajillion times and has never truly meant "until cancelled".

[Polarthief]

*my obligatory rant about how much I agree with you and how excessive ground targeting is stupid for single target rotation*

Which is weird because we usually don't see eye-to-eye on a lot of things

I also still stand by my statement that half the reason they "removed" Freeze from raiding/bosses is because people disliked ground targeting for ST rotations, yet we still have Rune, and now we also have PC and Meteor, too.

- - - Updated - - -

"Until cancelled" is pretty much a datamining error, every time you see this in mmo-champ patch notes, it means the duration of the spell can't be datamined properly. This has happened a bajillion times and has never truly meant "until cancelled".

To be fair though, it could mean they're adjusting the time of it. Again, we won't know til beta is up. I'm updating my client now and it'll be the first thing I test.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

More buffs for Mages.


._. Well Fire mages anyways.

[Polarthief]

Woot, new human male models got added :3

Also, just checked Meteor, and no, it's still the same time (even used a stopwatch to make sure; got just over 3s [human error ftw])

PS: Double-checked FFB, and it's currently under Fireball, so yeah, that's something they need to fix. Perhaps rather than buffing its base damage and nerfing BF, they should just make the Glyph of FFB make FFB's damage match Fireball, y'know? Would be easier.

PPS: They also fixed Meteor's targeting circle, and we STILL don't have a ground effect for it after it lands.

[Deleted]

"Until cancelled" is pretty much a datamining error, every time you see this in mmo-champ patch notes, it means the duration of the spell can't be datamined properly. This has happened a bajillion times and has never truly meant "until cancelled".

Not really a datamining error when it shows up in game on the tooltip. Celestalon also confirmed it's a tooltip fail.

[Polarthief]

Not really a datamining error when it shows up in game on the tooltip. Celestalon also confirmed it's a tooltip fail.

To be fair though, how would that break unless they were messing with it? The only thing they did to meteor was fix the cast circle.

[Erolian]

Almost off topic but since I haven't done any raid testing this time around I have a question. How many random light fixtures and awkward protruding walls are hanging around to mess up your ground targeted spells this time as well as weird floor textures that cause you to be unable to target ground targeted spells on them?

[LocNess]

Fire being bumped up always good. Would love to get some playing time with it come WoD and making it more and more viable is the beginning of that. Surprised Frost isn't being knocked down peg or two.