6.0 MW Monk Discussion

[Tryvia]

Hi guys, 1 hour after the first Alpha Notes for WoD we can start to post some consideration about the changes, seems that mw playstyle will change very deeply. Your impression? Lets use this thread instead of the 5.4 ones for not confuse someone.

[apepi]

So I have my disable and grapple removed and ring or peace is useless since it drs with paralysis, I am boned.

Also now mistweaver is the only spec that really has to care and tend to their mana? What? I guess it helps the "making all the classes the same thing" but we better heal more because we have to waste our time doing this.

[Deathpath]

How are you suppose to get chi now? They removed most of the chi gaining abilities.

[Pons]

I was badly hoping the jade statue got pruned. It's annoying to use and feels like a penalty to not have it out.

[apepi]

How are you suppose to get chi now? They removed most of the chi gaining abilities.

Surging Mist?

[Spotnick]

Surging Mist, Renewing Mist and Expel Harm + Chi Brew

Do we need 3 discussions going on on this topic?

[Daws001]

Yeah, bummed by the RoP change and losing Grapple Weapon. I use GW all the time

Aside from those, however, I'm actually excited to see how the other changes look/feel in practice. I like the idea of the two stances and, aside from chi emptying, doesn't seem to jarring from how I currently transition between fist and mist.

Not sure about the lvl 100 talents. Chi Explosion just seems like a no-brainer as it fills the Holy Shock, Penance, Serenity gap in our toolkit. Definitely don't like the statue talent :/

[Caain]

I was badly hoping the jade statue got pruned. It's annoying to use and feels like a penalty to not have it out.

Jade Statue can now cast a cone-heal if you're talented in it. Seems like it just got some extra utility, and its placement became a lot more important.

I'm actually pretty excited about the tier 100 talents—I hope Chi Explosion isn't so good as to become baseline, because the idea of being able to heal by moving for movement's sake with Path of Mists is pretty exciting to me.

Of course, I'm also the guy who likes playing Hunter because Hunters can jump while casting, so maybe I'm the only one excited for it.

[Emerya]

Jade Statue can now cast a cone-heal if you're talented in it. Seems like it just got some extra utility, and its placement became a lot more important.

I'm really hoping that one gets replaced. Light of Dawn was stupid enough, forcing the paladin to navigate into a position to hit the group with the cone. And they finally changed it.

This talent basically removes the placement options of the statue in my opinion - it now goes under the boss model if you take it. Otherwise you have to track your position, the position of those you want to heal with it, AND the position of the statue.

[Deleted]

I have some mixed feelings so far, but we need to see actual hpm/hpct of theese spells to make judgements...

Cons:
-They kept stupid ReM/Uplift interaction, though they said players will spend more time with < 100% hp
-no more 1s GCD
-Eminence still only 20yd from monk and statue (???)
-You cant use ReM in crane stance and switching resets chi, which makes it truely useless in most situations.
-TFT useless in curent form, we have no throughput cd now
-Serp. statue not removed
-Chi Explosion lvl 100 talent consume all chi... I would like to see just simple singletarget chi spender instead of this madness
-Chi Explosion seems the only lvl 100 choice right now

Pros:
-Detonate Chi Spheres... could be better if they increased range though
-They said earlier Surging will be cheaper and they want us to use single target more
-Muscle Memory gone? (if i got it right)

WTF:
-"Facing requirements (character position) on some prominent abilities have been loosened or removed." combined with "Spear Hand Strike no longer Silences the target if they’re facing the Monk."

[Emerya]

I'll toss in another con, that there's no mention of changes to mastery rating. Even things like doubling the healing/range of the exploding spheres doesn't do much to fix the problem with the rating itself.

It's day one of alpha though, so here's hoping for some positive changes.

[Totaltotemic]

They're taking a new approach with MW. Rather than pretending to be a melee and being the healing version of a Monk, they're separating everything that makes a MW a Monk and throwing it out the window to mold MW into a healing spec that doesn't really have anything to do with Monks except being mobile. All 3 level 100 talents emphasize positioning. This is almost identical to the Cataclysm Holy Paladin model that involved a lot of running around with two major differences: MWs are "melee" (and thus have freedom to run around without triggering ranged mechanics in bad places) and actually mobile.

This will not work for one reason, and that's that MWs are now complete garbage at spread out raid healing. With TFT essentially completely gutted and Soothing not generating chi, the only guaranteed chi will come from Chi Brew, Renewing Mist, and Expel Harm, forcing extra chi to be generated via Surging Mist or SCK. You might also recognize this as a Holy Paladin model... because it is. The problem with that though is that Holy Paladins get to Holy Shock every 6 seconds (reduced by haste) and with Selfless Healer they can also Judgement for HP. In the time it takes a Holy Paladin to generate 3 Holy Power for Light of Dawn, a MW will have one chi, or half of an Uplift.

Let me emphasize this again: "Free" chi is now practically nonexistent, every Uplift must be payed for with an accompanying SCK or Surging Mist, and even then it will not be powerful at all. With chi this scarce, it only further emphasizes Chi Brew as the one and only way to play. What Blizzard has built here is a healer that functions almost identically to Holy Paladins, but slowed down to half of the speed, or exactly the opposite of what MW was in 5.0. This is a healing spec that has absolutely no tools to help heal a widely spread out raid that fights like Malkorok, Immerseus, Paragons, Empress Shek'zeer, Primordius, Dark Animus, and Twin Consorts absolutely demand. They took away spread raid healing functionality and replaced it with healing functionality that only works when the raid is stacked up. This is literally going backwards from where Shamans and Paladins had to come from to get to where they are now, and none of the other healers are getting these things taken away.

[rohendar]

*

Teachings of the Monastery now makes Spinning Crane Kick heal friends instead of damaging enemies, while in Stance of the Wise Crane (previously, it would heal allies in addition to damaging enemies).

There is a Stance of the "Wise Serpent", and a "Spirited Crane". Where is this "Wise Crane" stance they speak about???


* Monks are losing ALL of their DPS in Serpent Stance. Blizzard specifically stated they would significantly lower the DPS/Healing Disc priests do to keep them in line with Monks, yet all I see about Disc priests is: atonement does 25% less healing. That is NOT significantly, doesn't even lower DPS for them.

Good thing I'm rerolling mage/warlock next expansion. Blizzard even says in the post MW had a rollercoaster ride that needed to be tuned, yet they are just getting gutted even more.

[Totaltotemic]

You didn't mention another issue (maybe you don't see it as one?), they are not addressing MWs being forced to cast Renewing Mist on CD regardless of the situation,. That's an issue with Holy Paladins as well, though they pay less for delaying their Holy Shock than MWs their ReM.
At least, I didn't see them doing it. Please correct me if I missed something - I'm crossing my fingers that I have .

Mazor.

In a way they kind of reduced the impact by completely gutting TFT. Now missing an ReM will only echo 20 seconds into the future instead of a potential 36, and having less Uplifts means it doesn't quite matter as much. Of course the spread healing flowchart is now Surging Surging Uplift-and-pray-ReM-is-actually-on-the-right-targets instead of being a smart heal. Pay more mana to use a spell less often that is now less reliable than it was before, because that will make MW a fun spec to play.

[Deleted]

We don't know if the CD was changed for TFT, or if it even has a CD anymore.

[Deleted]

We don't know if the CD was changed for TFT, or if it even has a CD anymore.

Well with ideally timed 5.4 TFT, youre adding about 75 seconds of "ReM time" which is ~4 extra ReMs and it can be more beneficial than that combined with chi brew. The new TFT adds only 18(20)s of "ReM time" , the only way it could be comparable is if you could use it for every ReM, and it would still be worse for bursts... (but it would be better for sustained...)

[Inay]

Hopefully they will scrap this shit. MW's faster paced healing has been huge part of the feel for the class in my opinion. Now they removed the faster gcd and slowed chi generation considerably. Making us more paladin like because it has been hard to balance is huge let down.

[Frozenbeef]

My everything hurts.... healing spheres removed, ring of peace nerfed to oblivon, haste reduced by 50%, no chi from soothing/ crackling, global cooldown increased to 1.5sec, fistweaving made seperate, touch of death nerfed....

There isn't a single good thing for mistweavers in wod...

[Deleted]

Mechanical wise they removed all the magic monks had to offer.

I mean what do they even mean with ''being too strong or hard to balance?''
I see paladins, druids, shamans and priest never go out of mana, so why do we have to in our current state?

We're probably one of the most hardest classes to heal with and be on par with other healer's HPS throughput, so I dont see the point of nerfing us drastically just because ''it wasnt their intention to made monks playable this way''.
1.5 sec GCD and renewing mist hits 4 targets on a 45 sec cooldown? How the fuck are we supposed to heal 20 man mythics with that?

I'm very sad to see that my monk is gonna be a handicapped monkey next expansion.

edit: Not to mention that expansions are supposed to feel exciting. Now Im just worried about how it turns out...

[Inay]

Hey at least transcendence doesn't have mana cost! Well there's still time to qq massively before release so they would revisit some of their visions.