WoD Brewmaster changes

[Gallahadd]

WOW the tier bonus' are pretty damn strong... after some totally unscientific testing on the dungeon tank dummy I did 30 fights each with and without set and lived for an average of 1min 30 in random greens and a few dungeon blues, then swapped to the tier and on the same dummy it went up to an average of 4min 30 before I became panda paté.

Even if you account for the fact that better gear has better stats on (funny how that happens) that's still a HUGE increase in time to live and I can tell you now most of that is due to the insane uptime on Elusive Brew, thanks to purifying giving us stacks, making us dodge more, giving us more enery to turn into chi, allowing you to purify more...

This actually makes me a little worried, because as of right now I don't have a guild... But I'm really going to need one to get that set .

[Totaltotemic]

All of the tank bonuses are massively overpowered, I expect to see them nerfed a lot. Paladins are running around with like 60% uptime on 90% block with 90% block value, it's so stupid.

[Ampere]

The 4 piece (Purifying Brew grants 4 stacks of Elusive Brew) currently does not work with 3+Chi Explosion.

Not sure if that's intended, but it certainly seems to lessen the value of Chi Explosion quite a lot on the survivability front.

[Totaltotemic]

The 4 piece (Purifying Brew grants 4 stacks of Elusive Brew) currently does not work with 3+Chi Explosion.

Not sure if that's intended, but it certainly seems to lessen the value of Chi Explosion quite a lot on the survivability front.

Yeah that's been something I've been wondering about since I first saw the bonuses. It basically makes Chi Explosion worthless unless you're going to use it at 2 and toss in an extra PB for the free EB, which greatly lowers its damage potential. It might still be used for its damage if BrMs can survive later Mythic bosses without tier, but it seems kind of unlikely.

[Leblue]

On the flip side, it makes Serenity ungodly good with that tier bonus since you can have a lot of fricken EB up during it since you just purify for fun anyway.

[Totaltotemic]

On the flip side, it makes Serenity ungodly good with that tier bonus since you can have a lot of fricken EB up during it since you just purify for fun anyway.

Well that and the standard gameplay with Serenity involves using PB basically every 3 seconds anyways. I think CE needs to proc the set bonus if the talent is going to have any chance at all of being taken seriously for reducing damage taken.

[Leblue]

Oh I totally agree that its entirely silly that Chi Explosion gets basically left out entirely by the set bonus (although I guess you could say the same about soul dance lol...).

[Nestar]

Oh I totally agree that its entirely silly that Chi Explosion gets basically left out entirely by the set bonus (although I guess you could say the same about soul dance lol...).

Chi-explosion is penalized for it though, soul dance functions the same as as serenity (just can't abuse purify spam)

[Leblue]

Chi Explosion is naturally going to be less effective at it because of the length to get chi to do a 3 chi purify and what not. Right now what's happening is 3 chi is not doing anything at all for the set bonus which is kinda screwed up because its sort of a double penalty.

[Tech614]

Chi Explosion is worthless in raiding unless you are hitting enrage timers and it's the last thing you can do to gain raid dps. I think most of us have had this feeling all along, the set bonus just buries it even further into the grave.

[Jellospally]

WOW the tier bonus' are pretty damn strong... after some totally unscientific testing on the dungeon tank dummy I did 30 fights each with and without set and lived for an average of 1min 30 in random greens and a few dungeon blues, then swapped to the tier and on the same dummy it went up to an average of 4min 30 before I became panda paté.

Even if you account for the fact that better gear has better stats on (funny how that happens) that's still a HUGE increase in time to live and I can tell you now most of that is due to the insane uptime on Elusive Brew, thanks to purifying giving us stacks, making us dodge more, giving us more enery to turn into chi, allowing you to purify more...

This actually makes me a little worried, because as of right now I don't have a guild... But I'm really going to need one to get that set .

Raid Tank Dummy you should be able to live forever never dropping below 50% ever. I tanked it for 15minutes and never felt in danger. On Iron Maiden test Maraks ship add I was able to do it without a healer. The set is fucking amazing I love it.

[Ooshraxa]

Raid Tank Dummy you should be able to live forever never dropping below 50% ever. I tanked it for 15minutes and never felt in danger. On Iron Maiden test Maraks ship add I was able to do it without a healer. The set is fucking amazing I love it.

First sign that it definitely will be nerfed. We're supposed to be babysat now!
Serenity is amazing - just the convenience of having a minute of Shuffle up right from the get-go. I'm not too fond of all the damn purifying, though - but that's apparently how it's going to work.

[Delana]

Has anybody ran the numbers on how many purifies you need to maintain 100% EB uptime with the set bonus? I'm thinking that at some crit/haste level serenity will become overkill (at least in terms of EB). IMO that would seem to favor soul dance if played optimally.

Moreover, if you have 100% EB uptime, how often do you really need to purify? One may be able to purify after every (or at least most) successful melee swing with soul dance. That and if you're going to take damage, green stagger is a pretty ideal way to do it.

I agree that serenity is super easy in terms of playability compared to soul dance, but if the extra magic mitigation is free, it may be worth using fairly regularly.

[Leblue]

Right now (as I see it) Soul Dance doesn't really hold a candle to Serenity outside of fights where most of the damage you take is consistent magic damage (i.e. Lei Shi).

Serenity gives you a damage boost and makes shuffle a complete non issue to the point where you've got an overflowing amount of chi to purify more often reducing your overall damage taken by quite a bit. How things have been in the beta as well is that we're purifying more often which then means that we need more chi to maintain shuffle and purify enough to where we aren't taking too much stagger damage. Combine this with allowing us to purify more often and our set bonuses and you'll see serenity is really strong as things currently stand.

Soul dance really just makes it so that you'll want to purify more often with very little compensation other than shifting a minor amount of magic damage to stagger. The lack of offensive component doesn't help its cause as well.

[Ampere]

Chi Explosion just looks like a Challenge Mode talent for groups that are going for better times. Serenity is obviously safer, but you kind of throw that out the window when tying to go fast.

Has anybody ran the numbers on how many purifies you need to maintain 100% EB uptime with the set bonus? I'm thinking that at some crit/haste level serenity will become overkill (at least in terms of EB). IMO that would seem to favor soul dance if played optimally.

Moreover, if you have 100% EB uptime, how often do you really need to purify? One may be able to purify after every (or at least most) successful melee swing with soul dance. That and if you're going to take damage, green stagger is a pretty ideal way to do it.

I agree that serenity is super easy in terms of playability compared to soul dance, but if the extra magic mitigation is free, it may be worth using fairly regularly.

The set bonuses for tanks are overtuned so don't bother doing calcs for it until the next build or two. I bet it turns into 1 or 2 stacks of EB per purify

[Nestar]

Has anybody ran the numbers on how many purifies you need to maintain 100% EB uptime with the set bonus? I'm thinking that at some crit/haste level serenity will become overkill (at least in terms of EB). IMO that would seem to favor soul dance if played optimally.

Moreover, if you have 100% EB uptime, how often do you really need to purify? One may be able to purify after every (or at least most) successful melee swing with soul dance. That and if you're going to take damage, green stagger is a pretty ideal way to do it.

I agree that serenity is super easy in terms of playability compared to soul dance, but if the extra magic mitigation is free, it may be worth using fairly regularly.

Due to the fact that its 4 stacks per cast, 1 every 4 seconds is enough (even without generating them normally).

[Deleted]

How do you guys think BM looks for WoD? Strong? Where in the "tanking list" or whatever are they?

[Sard]

How do you guys think BM looks for WoD? Strong? Where in the "tanking list" or whatever are they?

Hard to say numbers wise, but I think BM got through the tank survivability nerf decently enough. They are still a really fun tank to play, with great mobility, amazing aoe tanking, and a lot of control over their damage in take. The BM model really benefited from being built from scratch in the era of active mitigation as most of the other tanks feel clunky or awkward in one way or another. BM is blizzards model tank and it shows, as they had very light ability pruning and really nothing about their core mechanics changed.

They should be in demand for Mythic once damage tuning is finished.

[Delana]

Right now (as I see it) Soul Dance doesn't really hold a candle to Serenity outside of fights where most of the damage you take is consistent magic damage (i.e. Lei Shi).

Serenity gives you a damage boost and makes shuffle a complete non issue to the point where you've got an overflowing amount of chi to purify more often reducing your overall damage taken by quite a bit. How things have been in the beta as well is that we're purifying more often which then means that we need more chi to maintain shuffle and purify enough to where we aren't taking too much stagger damage. Combine this with allowing us to purify more often and our set bonuses and you'll see serenity is really strong as things currently stand.

Soul dance really just makes it so that you'll want to purify more often with very little compensation other than shifting a minor amount of magic damage to stagger. The lack of offensive component doesn't help its cause as well.

I see what you're saying and on one hand I agree that this seems reasonable. Serenity is almost certainly miles ahead of Soul dance in terms of damage taken and playability. My thinking though, is with the 2 piece, we'll all be in a regime where EB is up virtually 100% of the time. In this regime there shouldn't be much to purify, and serenity should be significantly devalued. It still, probably, sims better than Soul Dance with the 2 piece in terms of damage taken.

I'm getting soul dance being somewhere in the neighborhood of a 15% stagger against magical attacks. This doesn't sound terribly overwhelming, but 15% EH against any sort of magic damage special that has a reasonable chance to kill you is a pretty big deal (think breaths on Sarth 3d).

I guess I'm just hesitant to write off soul dance as being inferior to serenity (which probably just results in a lot of excess chi to purify fairly small staggers) in fights where there's significant enough magic damage to even bother having this discussion.

One of the (fair?) criticisms of BrM is that chi is absolutely essential up to a certain point, and then there's really not a lot to do with extra chi beyond that point. Yes, of course you could purify more, but staggered damage is literally the most tank friendly sort of damage you can take (a small? rapidly ticking dot). I guess my question for you guys that are in beta and have actually seen something approaching the warlords tuning, is do you see many green staggers, or are they mostly yellow right away? It's not like you suddenly lose the ability to keep up shuffle or purify if you talent chi serenity. It seems useful if you have to purify a significant (medium or greater) stagger frequently, but with 100% EB uptime, I'm not sure how we could possibly be in that regime.

[Jellospally]

Oh Iron Maidens Mythic(only test I got to do after sets were released and on my monk) Stagger barely went past green. Purified probably 4 times between each EB to always have 15 stacks(I redid my gear for 0 crit just did multistrike/mas/has(obviously BA on anything that can have it)) Never really got hit tbh and when I did I was already purifying. The main reason Serenity is so much better with 4 set is because you never have to use chi on BoK except like 4 or is it 5 kicks per serenity cycle its something really small to keep 100% shuffle and during serenity you can just mash BoK + Purify with 1 button macro without any loss.

I just don't see soul dance being that strong unless there is a fight in another tier that does a fuck load of constant magic or lots of bursts magic which this tier does not have. Brackenspores breath/dot and maybe gruul(for potential solo soaking of slash) would I see souldance as being able to have a chance at beating serenity.

Just how I see monk working out.. the few things in mythic testing I did on my monk it was fuckin dumb being below almost all the dps in dmg taken and being able to self heal the dmg I did take fast because of the amount of gift orbs I had waiting when I dipped. If they stay anywhere near what they are currently vs pally I am just gonna monk.. esp since pally and prot war are basically gearing the exact same stats for mitigation I would rather monk so both tanks get geared easier.