So Bear-Cat was OP, but Gladiator Stance is acceptable?

[Prothall]

Why?

Because Blizzard says so, that's why.

Come on, people.

[vkay1]

i didnt know bear-cats were a thing, i missed all the fun

[Korgoth]

So the class that has 4 specs is crying favoritism over a class getting a dps/tank spec instead of a 4th spec? Blizzard can't please anyone.

For my part as a Warrior I'd like Gladiator as a 4th spec, a PVP only spec!, for roleplaying Spartacus!

[Sylreick]

It's probably been said in the 12 pages that I can't be arsed to look through, but they did say that warriors CANNOT tank in glad stance. Unlike a bear being able to tank in bear and easily switch into cat on the fly. Also, if you take glad stance, I'm pretty sure they said you are locked into it for the duration of combat, so it's completely unlike being able to dps AND tank. Personally, I'm looking forward to giving gladiator dps a try, so if one of our tanks drops or can't make it, I respec and can fill in.

Now, if cat form for bear tanks worked similarly, that would be another thing entirely. I could actually see them working it like that, so bear tanks can dps as cat for the fights that don't require them to tank (but like glad stance, be locked into kitty for as long as they're in combat), although druids work a lot different so I'm not sure about this being a possibility.

[Fugus]

So the class that has 4 specs is crying favoritism over a class getting a dps/tank spec instead of a 4th spec? Blizzard can't please anyone.

For my part as a Warrior I'd like Gladiator as a 4th spec, a PVP only spec!, for roleplaying Spartacus!

Not at all, you really need to read before you comment. We have no issues with them getting a 4th spec, we have issues with them getting a 4th spec that is rolled into another spec giving them 2 specs in one in a fashion that looks very analogous to the old school feral setup they gave us.

Four warrior specs, no problems, 2 warrior specs in 1 allowing them to tri-spec after making it impossible to us and then breaking us up entirely is a problem.

- - - Updated - - -

It's probably been said in the 12 pages that I can't be arsed to look through, but they did say that warriors CANNOT tank in glad stance. Unlike a bear being able to tank in bear and easily switch into cat on the fly. Also, if you take glad stance, I'm pretty sure they said you are locked into it for the duration of combat, so it's completely unlike being able to dps AND tank. Personally, I'm looking forward to giving gladiator dps a try, so if one of our tanks drops or can't make it, I respec and can fill in.

Now, if cat form for bear tanks worked similarly, that would be another thing entirely. I could actually see them working it like that, so bear tanks can dps as cat for the fights that don't require them to tank (but like glad stance, be locked into kitty for as long as they're in combat), although druids work a lot different so I'm not sure about this being a possibility.

I am more along the lines of hoping they give Guardian druids a level 100 talent that gives them "Gladiator Bear" form where it is a DPS bear that goes similar to Arms Warriors with the same restrictions as Gladiator stance.

[Pool of the Dead]

Not at all, you really need to read before you comment. We have no issues with them getting a 4th spec, we have issues with them getting a 4th spec that is rolled into another spec giving them 2 specs in one in a fashion that looks very analogous to the old school feral setup they gave us.

Four warrior specs, no problems, 2 warrior specs in 1 allowing them to tri-spec after making it impossible to us and then breaking us up entirely is a problem..

The Stupidity of people with this sentiment is the fact that the REASON bear and cat was split was that as a Druid you can shift between the 2 at will any point in combat. Making it hard to balance.

Gladiator Stance is not switchable whilst in combat.

Hey I'm all for them rolling Guardian and Feral back together again if they want to make it once you enter combat as a Cat or Bear you can't switch form.

[Mormolyce]

IIRC, under the Cataclysm talent trees you could choose a spec that was ALMOST cat while in bear spec - you were off by like 3-4 talent points. The whole thing was idiotic, either the Feral tree should've allowed you to be both cat and bear or not, instead it was a weird borderline case where you could be both but not optimal as either.

New system is vastly superior.

[exochaft]

The Stupidity of people with this sentiment is the fact that the REASON bear and cat was split was that as a Druid you can shift between the 2 at will any point in combat. Making it hard to balance.

Gladiator Stance is not switchable whilst in combat.

Hey I'm all for them rolling Guardian and Feral back together again if they want to make it once you enter combat as a Cat or Bear you can't switch form.

Works fine for PvE raids, works horribly for PvP and non-raid PvE content (vast majority of the WoW population falls outside the PvE raid category, too). Add on top the need to balance the spec internally for warriors and against all other classes/specs, as well as setting precedent for optional (the druid change for 4-spec was necessary) role additions for everyone else. Pretty sure most of us druids here are happy that warriors can do sword-and-board DPS, we just have some issues with the method of implementation and the problems therein. While switching into and out of Glad. Stance being locked by combat is definitely a step in the right direction, it's certainly not the only issue with the stance.

I'd rather the vehicle be a legitimate fourth spec selectable by the specialization UI, or changing Arms or Fury into Gladiator from a balance perspective. Either option has a ton of social push-back.

[Deleted]

The only reason i see for Gladiator stance existing is so that prot warriors don't need to pick up a dps weapon. Thats literally it. Why else would you want a dps stance when literally the only other offspec choices are dps and...dps?

Ferals and bears can use the same weapon so they dont need it I guess? To be honest I dont see why we couldnt also have a similar stance for bears where we generate no threat but get a dps boost or something? I personally dont like playing feral, and wouldnt mind levelling as a bear.

[Fugus]

The Stupidity of people with this sentiment is the fact that the REASON bear and cat was split was that as a Druid you can shift between the 2 at will any point in combat. Making it hard to balance.

Gladiator Stance is not switchable whilst in combat.

Hey I'm all for them rolling Guardian and Feral back together again if they want to make it once you enter combat as a Cat or Bear you can't switch form.

Nah, you are doing it wrong. Merge Guardian and Feral back together again except have it be Default DPS.

Have Cat do rogue style DPS and Bear do Arms Warrior style DPS.

Then have a talent that changes it to tank using the exact same gear except Bears do Warrior style tanking while Cat does DK style Tanking =).

Then feral still gets to change form in combat without being able to go from DPS to tank and as an added bonus, we actually get to see Bear DPS.

It is just as bad as what the current Guardian stance is proposing, just taken 1 step further in the evolution. And to your response about it being easy to balance, the combat requirement doesn't make it easier to balance at all in PvP where it will be hell.

They need Guardian SPEC, not Guardian STANCE which with their current setup is literally 100% as easy to implement as this talent since they did away with trees entirely. They have zero excuse not to make it a spec.

[Luneward]

The only reason i see for Gladiator stance existing is so that prot warriors don't need to pick up a dps weapon. Thats literally it. Why else would you want a dps stance when literally the only other offspec choices are dps and...dps?

Because they want to play a sword and board gladiator? Not every reason needs to be tied into gear issues. It's still going to be a fairly boring spec to play, but maybe that will be the reason. I'm not particularly fond of the current expansion need to optimize everything in the Colossus Smash window, so I might actually like to try out Gladiator.

In a rough sort of way you could make it analagous to the way mages play. Arms would be a bit like arcane where you have to make a meta game of your resources and procs to pack in the biggest punch during windows of opportunity. Fury would be like Fire where you have to fight RNG a lot and line up your attacks with it for the payoff or to keep the payoff rolling. Gladiator would be like frost where the core is very simple, and you just need to properly manage a few procs.

So why else would you want another dps stance? I dunno. You like the class but don't like the other specs?

[The Penguin]

Tigole plays a warrior. That's all that ever needed to be said, even though Sword and Board combat is more a Paladin thing IMHO. This is no suprise however seeing how he led Forum riots as a "equal opportunity attacker" to voice his hatred of Paladins and Shadow Knights in that MMO and Sony perma-banned him for it. Now he's through with his EQ glory days but with WoD is trying to relive them one last time.

[Deleted]

Opinion of a guy that's played Warrior since Wrath:

I don't like the direction Gladiator Stance is going at all. I disagree with comparing it to Bear-Cat spec from Cata because that was legitimately too strong in Arena. However my main concern with Gladiator Stance is that like all new changes (especially to Warriors: Shockwave for Arms, Taste for blood, the implementing of Raging Blow for Fury... etc etc) Blizzard will over do it and make it too strong.

I understand people want to play a DPS spec with a shield, from a lore or Roleplaying point of view this is fine. However Blizzard have nearly NEVER been able to balance Warriors and if I reference back to Warlocks with their "tank" glyph for Demo and how OP that was, I'm extremely worried.

Also Gladiator Stance for PvP is going to be a nightmare. I can't imagine the cheesey tank style comps that are going to show up.

Rdruid/GladWarr/Guardian
Rdruid/GladWarr/BrM
RDruid/GladWarr/UHDK

Oh the joys.

[Trubo]

Opinion of a guy that's played Warrior since Wrath:

I don't like the direction Gladiator Stance is going at all. I disagree with comparing it to Bear-Cat spec from Cata because that was legitimately too strong in Arena. However my main concern with Gladiator Stance is that like all new changes (especially to Warriors: Shockwave for Arms, Taste for blood, the implementing of Raging Blow for Fury... etc etc) Blizzard will over do it and make it too strong.

I understand people want to play a DPS spec with a shield, from a lore or Roleplaying point of view this is fine. However Blizzard have nearly NEVER been able to balance Warriors and if I reference back to Warlocks with their "tank" glyph for Demo and how OP that was, I'm extremely worried.

Also Gladiator Stance for PvP is going to be a nightmare. I can't imagine the cheesey tank style comps that are going to show up.

Rdruid/GladWarr/Guardian
Rdruid/GladWarr/BrM
RDruid/GladWarr/UHDK

Oh the joys.

Warriors in Gladiator Stance will lose all normal tanking passives granted from things such as Unwavering Sentinel so I'm not sure I understand what the problem is for Arena.

[Fugus]

Warriors in Gladiator Stance will lose all normal tanking passives granted from things such as Unwavering Sentinel so I'm not sure I understand what the problem is for Arena.

The combat drops repeatedly in PvP and during that window, they are allowed to change between them.

Imagine a warrior in Tanking spec and eating all the burst they can throw at them only to drop combat and then come back as 100% DPS or have them sitting in Tanking spec only to see their partner attacked and then quickly change stance and then open themselves as 100% DPS.

It gives them WAY too much control on the terms of engagement same with BGs or World PvP.

The only way they could fix that would be to lock stances in BGs and Arena which still leaves World PvP as even more fucked up or giving it a huge cast time or actually doing it RIGHT and giving it to them as a spec which would end this whole damn issue.

[huth]

Provided Blizzard doesn't place the same restrictions on switching to Glad Stance as they do for switching specs. Which they well might do, for that very reason.

World PvP is a clusterfuck anyway, so not really something to worry about.

[Deleted]

Nah, you are doing it wrong. Merge Guardian and Feral back together again except have it be Default DPS.

Have Cat do rogue style DPS and Bear do Arms Warrior style DPS.

Then have a talent that changes it to tank using the exact same gear except Bears do Warrior style tanking while Cat does DK style Tanking =).

I don't know if this was meant as a joke or not, but I would main druid forever and ever if this became a reality - especially if rapid switching between the forms was a part of gameplay. Cat to stack bleeds, bear to dump rage (generation buffed by bleeds for extra awesomeness), switch to cat with a boost to CP generation from bear form, reapply bleeds... It might be a terribly convoluted and unnecessarily complicated way to play, but I like my druids like I like my hypothetical specialisations, terribly convoluted and unnecessarily complicated to play.

[Trubo]

The combat drops repeatedly in PvP and during that window, they are allowed to change between them.

Imagine a warrior in Tanking spec and eating all the burst they can throw at them only to drop combat and then come back as 100% DPS or have them sitting in Tanking spec only to see their partner attacked and then quickly change stance and then open themselves as 100% DPS.

It gives them WAY too much control on the terms of engagement same with BGs or World PvP.

The only way they could fix that would be to lock stances in BGs and Arena which still leaves World PvP as even more fucked up or giving it a huge cast time or actually doing it RIGHT and giving it to them as a spec which would end this whole damn issue.

This really only becomes an issue in RBGs+WPvP and Blizzard doesn't care at all about WPvP balancing. In Arena if the opposing team lets you get out of combat then, quite frankly, they're bad. Especially when they know that as how Gladiator currently works it requires the player to drop combat and applying a simple DoT or weak ranged attack is all that's needed to keep you in combat.

And, as I mentioned before, if this truly becomes an issue then Blizzard can simply make Gladiator Stance replace Defensive Stance. It still brings utility for Prot Warriors by letting them DPS in tank gear and doesn't need to do more than that.

[Fugus]

This really only becomes an issue in RBGs+WPvP and Blizzard doesn't care at all about WPvP balancing. In Arena if the opposing team lets you get out of combat then, quite frankly, they're bad. Especially when they know that as how Gladiator currently works it requires the player to drop combat and applying a simple DoT or weak ranged attack is all that's needed to keep you in combat.

And, as I mentioned before, if this truly becomes an issue then Blizzard can simply make Gladiator Stance replace Defensive Stance. It still brings utility for Prot Warriors by letting them DPS in tank gear and doesn't need to do more than that.

Whether the enemy is bad enough to let them drop combat or the warrior is just that damn good that they can drop combat still doesn't change the fact that they can which causes issues in all of that. And you yourself agree that the RBGs or even unrated BGs will have major issues due to this.

And why are they going to give Prot Warriors THIS level of utility when they are literally stripping players of their utility to force them more into their assigned role.

And Prot Warriors don't need to be 100% DPS viable anymore than Guardian Druids or Prot Paladins. All of this could be fixed with a Gladiator Spec instead of a stance which with how the game is currently setup is quite literally 100% just as easily implemented since they done way with the talent trees.

[Trubo]

Whether the enemy is bad enough to let them drop combat or the warrior is just that damn good that they can drop combat still doesn't change the fact that they can which causes issues in all of that. And you yourself agree that the RBGs or even unrated BGs will have major issues due to this.

And why are they going to give Prot Warriors THIS level of utility when they are literally stripping players of their utility to force them more into their assigned role.

Because the odds, to me, are so negligible for semi-serious play that it's not going to have an effect whatsoever. It's bad design philosophy to balance around how bad players play.

Also, people are still going to prefer bringing a ranged DPS than a melee for RBGs because they're ranged. With all the nerfs to tanking characters that hold a flag I'd rather bring a Warlock as my FC cause they can fake tank AND deal damage at the same time.

And Prot Warriors don't need to be 100% DPS viable anymore than Guardian Druids or Prot Paladins. All of this could be fixed with a Gladiator Spec instead of a stance which with how the game is currently setup is quite literally 100% just as easily implemented since they done way with the talent trees.

I think we can agree that making a new talent is far less time and coding intensive than simply adding a new spec. Since Blizzard is testing out how Gladiator works I think they'd rather go with the option that's more easily corrected than have some sorry excuse and waste of resources available for an entire expansion.