So Bear-Cat was OP, but Gladiator Stance is acceptable?

[Fugus]

In fact holy priest where capable of doing so in the beginning of mop using the damage stance doing about 90% of a real dd while still having the option to switch to healing on demand.

Didn't play MoP so didn't know that.

How long did it last before blizzard fixed it?

[Kojo]

In fact holy priest where capable of doing so in the beginning of mop using the damage stance doing about 90% of a real dd while still having the option to switch to healing on demand.

And then it was destroyed because it was unintended.

[Deleted]

Can't remember blizz destroying the holy mechanic. If i remember right, bad scaling killed it. So it lastet one tier of raids.

[Fugus]

Also, who else can see this being abused in PvP by warriors who figure out how to drop combat for a split second to stance dance just like rogues or druids do to get back into stealth or Arms Warriors did back in the day to get another charge in for extra rage.

How hectic will that be to PvP a 100% tank and have them eat all your burst only to get away for a split second and come back as a 100% DPS.

[serebii]

Something I haven't seen mentioned yet revolves around the combat limitation. Unless they put some cd on switching stances or something I know I will be changing my human warrior to night elf so I can get shadowmeld and be able to switch mid fight.
this would either require them to set other limitations or night elves would become by far the best warrior tanks. Also that would mean the horde was at a big disadvantage simply due to not having access o anything like it.
anyone know of any items that take you out of combat that would allow more frequent switching?

[Kojo]

A prot warrior will not do same damage as a dps, same goes for guardian/feral. Why all the fuzz?

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...32522790789120

Has there been a follow up statement reversing this?

[Fugus]

A prot warrior will not do same damage as a dps, same goes for guardian/feral. Why all the fuzz?

Because they are talking about giving this talent and lots of talk about them making sure it keeps pace with Arms/Fury DPS at which point it should be its own spec.

[Kojo]

Something I haven't seen mentioned yet revolves around the combat limitation. Unless they put some cd on switching stances or something I know I will be changing my human warrior to night elf so I can get shadowmeld and be able to switch mid fight.
this would either require them to set other limitations or night elves would become by far the best warrior tanks. Also that would mean the horde was at a big disadvantage simply due to not having access o anything like it.
anyone know of any items that take you out of combat that would allow more frequent switching?

I think the cd shadowmeld already has could be enough. Yeah maybe you could switch midfight with this but it'll bite you in the ass if you need to tank again in the next couple minutes. PvP implications though are hilarious.

[Fugus]

Seems like a lot of speculations to me. Is there any source for this?

They will probably buff guardian druids to the point they will be comparable with prot warriors when WoD is actually released. Why would you even go cat form as a guardian druid anyway?

Not speculation as one of the developers stated it. ( https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...32522790789120 )

If they do this, they will have to give guardian druids a talent to turn Bear form into a DPS as well as Prot Paladins followed by a huge outcry from the healer specs asking for a talent to give them access to 100% caster DPS as well, this is a HUGE can of worms they are opening up here if they don't turn it into a spec.


As for the PvP implications of going from 100% tank to 100% DPS in a single stance change.... Dear lord.

Unless they give it the same cast time as a spec change.... I can see a prot warrior sitting at a flag guarding it in Prot stance so anyone who ambushes him he can outlast the burst and the moment it is done he can try and drop combat just long enough to stance change and go from to 100% DPS. Then if he sees something where he gets the opener, he changes stances just before charging in giving him the intro advantage.

Engineering Night Elf Prot Warrior anyone?

[Deleted]

I used to really enjoy Bear-cat but I can see why it was removed.

I can remember when we were progressing in Dragon Soul, we used to struggle on the Ultraxion DPS check. We switched to having 2x druid tanks and it was cake, whichever of us wasn't tanking would switch into cat and pew pew. Makes a massive difference in 10 man, almost like having an extra DPS.

[Kojo]

Well that leaves him pretty vulnerable, he will have to sacrifice his survivability for more damage. I don't see anything from with that, why even making a thread in druid forum about this?

He temporarily puts his survivability down, until he's out of combat, then it's right back to being a tank if he wants. And in either stance he still has his major survival cd's so it's not utterly defenseless.

[Lorelei]

No, I am not, a spec is a role, or else we would still have feral spec, but since feral spec was 2 roles, they divided it up. 1 spec == 1 role or at least that is blizzards logic, just look at the description of the specs and they tell you the role of that spec.

My point was that you are complaining about "dual role" not "tri spec." Tri spec is dual spec + 1, which means it literally lets you choose between three of your specs, which in this case means being able to choose between prot, arms, and fury out of combat and without going to a trainer. The talent doesn't actually give you anything that remotely looks like tri-spec. It allows you to change the role of your current spec.

Again, if the objection is that it's not fair to let warriors have tri-spec unless they let other classes have it, then it completely falls apart when you get to the "pure dps" classes. Gladiator stance lets prot change to dps, and no amount of tri-spec is going to let a hunter or mage or rogue or warlock turn into anything but dps. They aren't equivalent. Specs have roles, but roles aren't specs -- the way carrots are vegetables but vegetables aren't carrots.

Its another in its own way, as in they will play differently than how a prot warrior plays entirely.

The talent gives a 20% boost to physical damage and changes shield block to shield charge. That's all. They will press the same buttons they always press, except for defensive CDs because they won't be getting hit. They will use 1h + shield. It's not "entirely" different by any stretch of the imagination. Bear and cat use completely different abilities. Prot and arms use completely different abilities. Prot and Prot with Gladiator stance play like the same spec in a different role.

If people want to get upset at the idea of Prot being able to press a button to change roles instead of having to rearrange their button bars and having the hassle of Blizzard trying to balance yet another spec, then okay. I think that it would be a whole bunch of work for nothing, as you aren't really punishing the prot warriors who want 1h+shield dps by making them have to pick "gladiator" as an offspec. Those guys would be happy to not have to use fury or arms as an offspec. The ones who like playing those as an offspec probably won't pick this talent anyway, because they actually like switching up their play style to dps.

[Arielle]

He temporarily puts his survivability down, until he's out of combat, then it's right back to being a tank if he wants. And in either stance he still has his major survival cd's so it's not utterly defenseless.

The PvP implications are a legitimate concern. That's about it though.

[Trubo]

The PvP implications are a legitimate concern. That's about it though.

Yeah and the easiest fix for that is to just go back to Gladiator Stance replacing Defensive Stance. Problem solved.

[Goradan]

Mastery increases their attack power and block crit chance.

So, mastery increases their DPS, block crit chance increases their DPS, block rating increases their DPS. About the only thing that doesn't YET is armor.

True Tanks are becoming a replacement for pure dps specs. compared to tanks, DPS's defensive potential lower then a tanks potential to DPS. and that sucks. I've always been an advocate for Melee DPS's have some tankiness and talent's that will make them viable sub-tanks with some sacrifice to their dps. tanks are getting way too much dps. What they need is more threat if they don't already have enough and less damage. If tanks are getting more DPS via mastery then we should get more passive damage reduction to compensate.

[Kojo]

True Tanks are becoming a replacement for pure dps specs. compared to tanks, DPS's defensive potential lower then a tanks potential to DPS. and that sucks. I've always been an advocate for Melee DPS's have some tankiness and talent's that will make them viable sub-tanks with some sacrifice to their dps. tanks are getting way too much dps. What they need is more threat if they don't already have enough and less damage. If tanks are getting more DPS via mastery then we should get more passive damage reduction to compensate.

Tanks aren't getting more dps, they're getting compensated for the complete removal of the offensive nature of vengeance so they can still deal some damage, they're not replacing damage dealers.

[Goradan]

Not speculation as one of the developers stated it. ( https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...32522790789120 )

If they do this, they will have to give guardian druids a talent to turn Bear form into a DPS as well as Prot Paladins followed by a huge outcry from the healer specs asking for a talent to give them access to 100% caster DPS as well, this is a HUGE can of worms they are opening up here if they don't turn it into a spec.


As for the PvP implications of going from 100% tank to 100% DPS in a single stance change.... Dear lord.

Unless they give it the same cast time as a spec change.... I can see a prot warrior sitting at a flag guarding it in Prot stance so anyone who ambushes him he can outlast the burst and the moment it is done he can try and drop combat just long enough to stance change and go from to 100% DPS. Then if he sees something where he gets the opener, he changes stances just before charging in giving him the intro advantage.

Engineering Night Elf Prot Warrior anyone?

I Don't mind having hybrid's not being 100% "spec-locked". Etc an Enhancement shamans doing heals and ranged dps that's sub par to a mage or a priest is not a problem with. If they lower the damage bonus form Gladiator Stance then that's problem's solve's as Protection warrior should have something to boost their dps, but not and I repeat NOT get a something that makes them effectively a 2-in-1 Spec. That's just bad class design on blizz's part.

[Kojo]

I Don't mind having hybrid's not being 100% "spec-locked". Etc an Enhancement shamans doing heals and ranged dps that's sub par to a mage or a priest is not a problem with.

You may not have a problem with that but others do, and you know a priest is a hybrid too, right?

[Goradan]

Tanks aren't getting more dps, they're getting compensated for the complete removal of the offensive nature of vengeance so they can still deal some damage, they're not replacing damage dealers.

Thanks for the correction But i was aware of that when I spoke. While I do Appreciate the change. I am a little worried that mastery will be that new vengeance. But don't get me wrong. I still want to see tanks deal good damage, just not vengeance style damage that makes dps's nearly obsolete.

[Kojo]

It won't be like vengeance, that got out of hand due to being based on incoming damage so hard hitting fights blew tank damage way out of proportion, while tanks with very little vengeance hit like wet noodles. Even if tanks stacked mastery it's a more fixed amount and should be tuned properly.