Pennsylvania High School Stabbing

[Eroginous]

well, i guess testing would help on the lunatic part and a criminal is a criminal after he did something criminal... so that´s pretty easy if you ask me

So mandatory testing of everyone to determine if they are insane, and criminals don't get flagged until after their first crime? Sounds like you have it all figured out.

that banks, and other places didn´t have security from the beginning? do i need a source for that? are you kidding me? the secret service was founded in 1865... just to mention one

Just as I thought, pulling things outta your ass. The guy who sits there linking studies instead of evidence.

do you have a source for this claim?

Open a newspaper or turn on a television. Every day there are people hurting each other. If that's not a natural tendency, what is it?

[Gheld]

And yet a fuckton of details are already known! We've already had detailed press conferences, interviews with his lawyers, interviews with his family, students, victims, etc. It's not like we're completely clueless as to what's going on here.

A 16-year-old student with a history of being bullied walks into school and starts slashing up students. We don't need to know every single detail to have an intelligent discussion about the things we do know.

Yeah and just over 2 decades ago there was a terrible car accident. My cousin, and his friend who was driving were killed, another friend of theirs was severely injured beyond any chance of a full physical recovery, and everyone else received moderate to minor injuries; either way many lives were shattered that night.

They were on their way home from a party. Bunch of 16 year olds in a car accident, coming home from a party, that was all the information one news director from one of the local stations felt was needed to lump the news story in a soap boxing segment for proposed changes to drunk driving laws. This was back when the evening news contained everything you knew. So I can assure you many people were watching.

The results of the official investigation?
-Alcohol was not a factor.

What is believed to have happened was that the road was icy at the time. They were about to drive through an intersection which at the time was infamously dangerous because it involved an 80km/h road, with a busy cross road that is stop sign controlled instead of traffic light controlled. It was a brand new car which was equipped with ABS (which had just started showing up in cars at the time) and that the driver had hit the brakes on a slippery section (perhaps to slow down because he saw a vehicle readying to cross the intersection, the ABS engaged, so the driver pumped the brakes (because in Drivers Ed at the time, they were still giving that cookie cutter piece of advice, even though it's incorrect for a vehicle equipped with ABS) and the end result was that they ended up in the ditch and the vehicle rolled.

So to the families of everybody involved that was a knife straight in the fucking heart, even to some not involved, because this was back when children's friend's parents were all friends with each other. To have some asshole news director imply that the children a community just lost brought it upon themselves because "well 16 year olds coming home from a party, you do the math" when the reality is the driver did what he was taught he was supposed to do. The issue was that the drivers education curriculum needed updating, and that intersection desperately needed a traffic light installed. But I guess neither of those were particularly sexy issues.

The station ended up apologizing. But anybody who missed that evening's news, driving by the memorial at the side of the road would have still been thinking it was a bunch of drunken teenagers who brought it upon themselves.

Either way. It just goes to show, you might think you're so fucking smart and can connect the dots, but you never know what information the police have, but you don't.

[Mayhem]

So mandatory testing of everyone to determine if they are insane, and criminals don't get flagged until after their first crime? Sounds like you have it all figured out.

if they want to buy a weapon, yes, why not?

Just as I thought, pulling things outta your ass. The guy who sits there linking studies instead of evidence.



Open a newspaper or turn on a television. Every day there are people hurting each other. If that's not a natural tendency, what is it?

ok, first, i´m not sure if i should laugh or not and second, every day way more people don´t hurt each other... again you have no source for your claim other than "commons sense, duh and look at what happens in the world, no not that, no just this one thing here, look at it"

you have nothing to back up that it´s natural, other than it´s happening

[vinmmo]

if they want to buy a weapon, yes, why not?



ok, first, i´m not sure if i should laugh or not and second, every day way more people don´t hurt each other... again you have no source for your claim other than "commons sense, duh and look at what happens in the world, no not that, no just this one thing here, look at it"

you have nothing to back up that it´s natural, other than it´s happening

You guys have been going back and forth a bit on this and I'm admittedly a bit lost, but are you arguing, in the midst of a thread about a guy who violently attacked 22 people, that violence does not occur naturally in people? Or is your point something different. I feel like these issues sometimes become a bit muddled as arguments carry on.

[Simonic]

Like, I can understand if really bad things happen in your life or whatever, and you are brought to wanting to kill yourself... as awful as suicide is, it's understandable.

It makes perfect sense. You put down those who are causing you pain/harm. If you simply commit suicide, "they" win. Also, it is why I believe many mass shooters end up killing themselves in the end.

[Deleted]

It makes perfect sense. You put down those who are causing you pain/harm. If you simply commit suicide, "they" win. Also, it is why I believe many mass shooters end up killing themselves in the end.

Yeah but in so many cases, it isn't just targetted killing of the bullies. For example, in this case as far as I am aware, the guy wasn't even bullied.

[Deleted]

It has a bit to do with guns. As I'm guess his point is, if this kid had a gun 22 people would be dead.

If this kid wasn't fucking crazy none of this would have happened in the first place. That goes for every mass murder/attempted murder spree.

- - - Updated - - -

The biggest issue is that not all mental health issues are created equal. Not all mental health issues lead to violence for starters. The "treatment" can be worse than the disease sometimes. Mental health is incredibly poorly understood by the American public, which results in a lot of "work harder and get over it" attitudes which has led to an underdeveloped mental health system, AND it's made worse by the fact that a lot of people's reactions to mental health issues are to basically strip the person of their freedom and shove pills down their throat and put them under constant surveillance or lock them up. Plus, we have no way to accurately diagnose a persons mental health at a young age.

I have a quick solution to this problem. Instead of arming our police like a fucking army we instead choose to spend that money on finding better treatments for mental health problems.

[Eroginous]

if they want to buy a weapon, yes, why not?

Who's going to do the testing? Who's going to pay for it? How are we going to handle inconclusive tests or false positives? What are you categorizing as a weapon?

ok, first, i´m not sure if i should laugh or not and second, every day way more people don´t hurt each other... again you have no source for your claim other than "commons sense, duh and look at what happens in the world, no not that, no just this one thing here, look at it"

you have nothing to back up that it´s natural, other than it´s happening

Do you not understand what the term 'nature' means? That's the only conceivable reason why you would disagree that violent behavior is naturally occurring within humans.

Laugh all you want, I'm sure it's appropriate at this point.

You guys have been going back and forth a bit on this and I'm admittedly a bit lost, but are you arguing, in the midst of a thread about a guy who violently attacked 22 people, that violence does not occur naturally in people? Or is your point something different. I feel like these issues sometimes become a bit muddled as arguments carry on.

Yes, that's his argument in a nutshell.

'People don't have a natural tendency towards violence.' So I ask him where it comes from, and he doesn't answer. Violence is an unsolved mystery apparently.

[Simonic]

I don't care about the gun control portion of the thread, this little post is entirely about feels...
But it honestly terrifies me that my son has weekly "intruder" drills in case someone tries to commit crimes. I know I know... "for dem kidz" and other nonsense... But that was something that I never heard of but my son came home talking about doing in preschool, and now weekly in Kindergarten. I guess better they do it and be... sort of prepared... as much as 5/6 year olds can be if it ever occurred, I just hate that it is a possibility what so ever.

If they're doing this...I half wish they'd teach older kids the art of tackling the attacker. Instead of teaching everyone to run, hide, and wait for the professionals. In many of these mass murders, it is hardly ever said that the victims attacked the attacker. You have hundreds of capable people running for their lives from 1-3 attackers. Hundreds. Hoping to save themselves instead of sacrificing their safety or life to save others.

That selfishness, and lack of regard for other human life, should speak volumes. Every single student on that campus should have attacked him once he became their enemy (pulled out the blades). In this case, he had knives -- most students have backpacks with books. But yeah...what did they do, and what are they taught? Run to safety, and/or hide. Someone needs to inspire that damn fight mechanic, and not just cater to the flight.

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Yeah but in so many cases, it isn't just targetted killing of the bullies. For example, in this case as far as I am aware, the guy wasn't even bullied.

In the case of being bullied, and exacting "revenge" against even those who didn't do the bullying -- an argument could be made in their heads that by doing nothing to stop others from treating them that way, they indirectly enabled the treatment. So, they too, are responsible for their "hell." Kind of the "no one is sinless/innocent" argument.

Or they get to a mental conclusion that they will commit suicide, but not without taking as many others with them.They might take pleasure in that, but I doubt it as their death would be too close. But, rather, it will inflict horrible pain upon all the victims and their friends/families. In many ways, I view the mass murders are wake up calls -- that effectively go unheard, or misdirected towards the gun/knife/bullying/weapon/mental health debate. Arguably, none of those are the major issue, but do play parts. Further, none of those "debates" are new inventions or discoveries. They have been around for a very very long time...but apparently now they're becoming too much for humans to handle? I doubt it.

[Sunseeker]

I have a quick solution to this problem. Instead of arming our police like a fucking army we instead choose to spend that money on finding better treatments for mental health problems.

The police aren't armed like the army, and it has absolutely nothing to do with my statement, this article, or anything else. So please don't use my post as an excuse for your soap-boxing.

Spending more tax dollars on mental health won't change the fact that the drugs are controlled by big-pharma and the American public still thinks the best solution to being crazy is to be locked up or "hard work" to "get over it."

[Dolus]

Media plays a dramatic role with "perception."

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/...ublic-unaware/

But, if you broadcast X over and over, despite statistics, people will perceive X as being a problem. These types of incidents have happened for a long time. Anyone ever heard of Andrew Kehoe? Probably, not. They didn't have twitter and 24/7 television news cycles back then.

[Mayhem]

Who's going to do the testing? Who's going to pay for it? How are we going to handle inconclusive tests or false positives? What are you categorizing as a weapon?

the same people that would pay for armed school guards? what do you fear? that some sane person wouldn´t get a weapon right away? well i think that´s a better deal than some insane getting every weapon he wants

i would go by the definition used in laws?

Do you not understand what the term 'nature' means? That's the only conceivable reason why you would disagree that violent behavior is naturally occurring within humans.

Laugh all you want, I'm sure it's appropriate at this point.

now you´re moving goalposts

Yes, that's his argument in a nutshell.

'People don't have a natural tendency towards violence.' So I ask him where it comes from, and he doesn't answer. Violence is an unsolved mystery apparently.

here we are, right, that is wrong, there is no natural tendency towards violence in mankind, in 99.9% of the cases there needs to be a reason, mostly some kind of violent background or other incidents that messed up the person acting violent

mankind is by nature empathetic

and you still showed no evidence or study to back up your claim other than "newspapers and tv" i mean, seriously?

[araine]

As bad as these stabbings are, just think of the major difference if this at been one of those semi automatic big mag tools of death used in previous events like Aurora and Connecticut where some 20 kids got murdered, the difference is with a gun we get deaths galore with a knife many of the victims will recover, just pointing out that guns do kill people always have and always will

[muto]

I almost wish mental evaluations were required to attend school; maybe one every couple years. Might be able to prevent some of these acts of violence from happening. If it was found that students were mentally unstable then maybe they could get help, and these rampages could possibly be prevented.

[Puupi]

I almost wish mental evaluations were required to attend school; maybe one every couple years. Might be able to prevent some of these acts of violence from happening. If it was found that students were mentally unstable then maybe they could get help, and these rampages could possibly be prevented.

You really like the idea of mass scale mental evaluations annually or so? People would be scared as shit of those evaluations. What if they decide you are a nutcase even if you aren't?

Unwanted and unnecessary stress for students, not to mention the wrong decisions those evaluations would make. Yes, it's a certainty that there would be mistakes.

And what kind of mental issues is the level that the school needs to do something about it? I bet all of us have some kind issues, whether it's depression, trauma, phobias etc. So should everyone be labeled as some kind of mental patient?

[Deleted]

I know this will make some people upset.

How come it always seems to be White Students who go on rampages in the US or atleast the majority? I know a few years ago in California a Korean American student went on a rampage and in Florida a Black Sudent killed his teacher in the 90's. However whenever it is a rampage with more injuries, death it seems to be White Students doing it.

[Eroginous]

the same people that would pay for armed school guards? what do you fear? that some sane person wouldn´t get a weapon right away? well i think that´s a better deal than some insane getting every weapon he wants

i would go by the definition used in laws?

The purpose of my questions are to illustrate a point: you don't really understand the implications of your suggestion. You make them assuming we can just do whatever and the cost/effect will be manageable. If you want everyone to undergo a mental evaluation, that means a doctor has to be involved. If you involve doctors, that means additional cost associated with mental health treatment. Since not everyone has a mental health professional (why would they?), you've now forced those people to see an additional doctor, which costs money and affects insurance costs.

Which then becomes compounded when you want to label everything a weapon just because it could be used as such. You want to go buy a baseball bat from a sporting goods store? Better go down and have a psych eval to make sure you can pass a background check and you aren't just going to go beat the hell out of someone with it.

now you´re moving goalposts

No, I stated very clearly that people have a natural tendency toward violent behavior. You disagreed. The only conceivable reason for your disagreement would be that you don't understand the definitions of the terms being used. While you're looking up the definitions of these words, you should also look up the logical fallacy 'moving the goalposts.'

here we are, right, that is wrong, there is no natural tendency towards violence in mankind, in 99.9% of the cases there needs to be a reason, mostly some kind of violent background or other incidents that messed up the person acting violent

mankind is by nature empathetic

and you still showed no evidence or study to back up your claim other than "newspapers and tv" i mean, seriously?

Mankind has a natural tendency to behave in a number of different ways. One of which is violence and/or aggression. That's the part you don't seem to understand. Just because people tend to be violent, doesn't mean they can't also be compassionate or empathetic.

Read a damn book.

[caninepawprints]

I just don't get how bullying can lead to this. I can understand it getting you down to the point where you want to kill yourself, but... making you want to kill other people? It's like, you're doing a worse version of what's been done to you, you know? Revenge is one thing but...

Homicide and suicide are closely related. The one the person defaults to is based upon what the actions against them made them feel. Angry? Then they're likely to kill others. Depressed? Then they're likely to kill themselves.

It's one of those things where when you experience it, you'll fully understand it. It's similar to trying to understand the mind of a schizophrenic. You can know about it, but you don't really get it unless you've been there yourself.

[Mayhem]

Mankind has a natural tendency to behave in a number of different ways. One of which is violence and/or aggression. That's the part you don't seem to understand. Just because people tend to be violent, doesn't mean they can't also be compassionate or empathetic.

Read a damn book.

so you still have nothing, great

you still don´t understand that having the ability to do something doesn´t mean there is a tendency to act that way as well