LFR Not Getting Raid Gear in Warlords?

[Giscoicus]

I was on Wowhead looking at some of their coverage of Warlords since MMO-C has slowed down a bit, and they had posted a bunch of data mined icons, beyond those that were posted here. Additionally they separated the icons into categories.

Under the Armor and Weapons section, there was a subcategory titled LFR, and one titled Raid. The LFR category had a series of icons that belonged to sets, however by the look of some pieces like shoulders, it is unlikely a tier set. It may just be a different set, like how Mogushun Vaults dropped a seperate non-tier raid set from Heart of Fear and Terrace of Endless Springs, but the fact that the icons are labeled along the lines of inv_plate_draenorlfr_c_01pant suggests it may not be as such. In the subcategory titled Raid, there are only icons for necklaces. The icons are labeled along the lines of inv_6.0raid_necklace_4c. Not only does the raid icon have a patch next to it, but it is labeled as raid, not LFR. The LFR piece has no patch next to it, and is labeled as a LFR piece, not a raid piece. Trinkets are in a separate subcategory, along with a section titled other that may have weapons for LFR.

Now, because it is early I'm not surprised to not see tier icons, since they dont want to spoil what the tier sets are, or they haven't designed them yet. However, the gear labeled as LFR seems very simplistic and is not marked as a specific patch. If we would have a set of armor like in MSV that was not tier, but a raid set still, I think the armor would be under the raid section, and not labeled explicitly with LFR, and probably be labeled for 6.0

Blizzard has wanted for LFR to feel less mandatory for gearing up or maximizing gear, but tier/trinkets have still been a common complaint among players doing higher modes. Prior to the nerf, LFR UVLS was still one of the best trinkets for Demonology Warlocks, surpassing Heroic Warforged trinkets because of how strong the proc was. There was some speculation of LFR being further downplayed when they made the "tourist mode" comment, but they hadn't said anything about it since.

Is it possible that LFR going to not drop raid sets in Warlords, and instead just a separate set of gear, potentially through the entire expansion, maybe just changing the stats?

For reference, here is the link.
http://www.wowhead.com/news=233651/w...draenor-icons#.

[Stonecloak]

I've heard this mentioned before and I cannot remember where. If so, they are shifting their ideas about incentives. As I've slowly seen in SOO as well. Raid colors on the gear were always in their correct color in LFR, and normal and heroic had off colors. Now in SoO, the colors of flex and normal are the correct colors, and LFR is an off color. This might have been the beginning of a philosophy change.

[TheWindWalker]

Well, since they've already said that Heroic Mode Dungeons will be parallel to LFR and used to gear up for raids (possibly going forward into every tier) and that LFR was switching to a "tourist mode", this isn't exactly surprising but may still just be stand-in items because you're looking at an Alpha dump.

[Enfilade]

LFR should give Heroic dungeon-quality gear, and honestly should be nothing more than a medium in which to content surf.

[Stonecloak]

Well, since they've already said that Heroic Mode Dungeons will be parallel to LFR and used to gear up for raids (possibly going forward into every tier) and that LFR was switching to a "tourist mode", this isn't exactly surprising but may still just be stand-in items because you're looking at an Alpha dump.

Makes even more sense because Blizz said they are adding dungeons throughout the expansion.

[ComputerNerd]

Still this stupid bashing of LFR.
LFR does not have any organisational requirement, something which is still an issue for a lot of players.
You raid normal/heroic because you want to, therefore LFR is not giving all you want out of the experience.
LFR is not "seeing the content" therefore.

Flex still has the requirements for an organised group, plus everyone else meeting the requirements of that group in terms of time commitment.
Flex therefore has exactly the same issue for time-constrained players as normal or heroic.

There is no reason why LFR players should be penalised in such a way.

[Giscoicus]

Well, since they've already said that Heroic Mode Dungeons will be parallel to LFR and used to gear up for raids (possibly going forward into every tier) and that LFR was switching to a "tourist mode", this isn't exactly surprising but may still just be stand-in items because you're looking at an Alpha dump.

Challenge modes can reward a piece of LFR gear for Bronze+

I would assume that if challenge mode gear is on par with LFR, that heroics would be below it.

[Mirishka]

Or maaaaaaaaaaybe, god forbid, its an unfinished alpha of a game and people should stop reading into stuff?

[Stonecloak]

Still this stupid bashing of LFR.
LFR does not have any organisational requirement, something which is still an issue for a lot of players.
You raid normal/heroic because you want to, therefore LFR is not giving all you want out of the experience.
LFR is not "seeing the content" therefore.

Flex still has the requirements for an organised group, plus everyone else meeting the requirements of that group in terms of time commitment.
Flex therefore has exactly the same issue for time-constrained players as normal or heroic.

There is no reason why LFR players should be penalised in such a way.

I think sometimes LFR players don't realize that flex runs go quicker, and is it that hard to abide to a time to raid?

[fernotao]

i know some people would rather do Heroic 5 mans then LFR because of the Long wait times and other reasons

[Giscoicus]

Still this stupid bashing of LFR.
LFR does not have any organisational requirement, something which is still an issue for a lot of players.
You raid normal/heroic because you want to, therefore LFR is not giving all you want out of the experience.
LFR is not "seeing the content" therefore.

Flex still has the requirements for an organised group, plus everyone else meeting the requirements of that group in terms of time commitment.
Flex therefore has exactly the same issue for time-constrained players as normal or heroic.

There is no reason why LFR players should be penalised in such a way.

Its not bashing.

I dislike LFR, you got me, but I don't happen to write for Wowhead. They posted the icons, and the tags were what I posted. LFR was marked as being LFR, while raid was marked for a specific patch and being raid gear. It is Blizzard who would have made the choice, if there is infact a change. Tuning down rewards is not penalization.

[Stonecloak]

Or maaaaaaaaaaybe, god forbid, its an unfinished alpha of a game and people should stop reading into stuff?

Fair enough, but there are more signs than just this that Blizzard is going to make normal raiding (flex in SOO) the incentive rather than Raid finder. You gotta remember LFR was an experiment.

[Lesane]

Still this stupid bashing of LFR.
LFR does not have any organisational requirement, something which is still an issue for a lot of players.
You raid normal/heroic because you want to, therefore LFR is not giving all you want out of the experience.
LFR is not "seeing the content" therefore.

Flex still has the requirements for an organised group, plus everyone else meeting the requirements of that group in terms of time commitment.
Flex therefore has exactly the same issue for time-constrained players as normal or heroic.

There is no reason why LFR players should be penalised in such a way.

How are LFR players being penalized if this change goes through? They still get loot, just not the same loot that actual raiders get (besides it being lower ilvl).

LFR requires little to no effort, and should therefore offer little to no reward. You shouldn't get rewarded just because you have issues with raiding on a schedule.

Also, as someone else already mentioned, LFR raids+queues actually take longer than it takes a normal/heroic guild to run through a farm status raid, let alone a flex raid. If you have time to complete LFR, you have time to raid. The only feasible argument for LFR is when you cannot play on a consistent timetable. That is fine, but then you should expect to get less rewards than people who do.

On-topic: I can actually see them making LFR loot random timeless isle/HC scenario style loot, especially when you factor in that they said completing a bronze challenge dungeon gets you a piece of LFR gear.

[Luko]

LFR should give Heroic dungeon-quality gear, and honestly should be nothing more than a medium in which to content surf.

Sounds like you're getting your wish. Apparently the new 5man heroics are going to be a step up and drop >= level gear to LFR.

[Giscoicus]

Or maaaaaaaaaaybe, god forbid, its an unfinished alpha of a game and people should stop reading into stuff?

It still wouldnt make sense to have the labels be so different. Or even labeling them differently in the first place.

For example, in MoP we would have icons called inv_helmet_leather_raidmonk_l_01 this label was used for icons shared by LFR, normal and heroic gear.

It seems odd they would change it to specifically say LFR if the gear would be the same model

[eillas]

How are LFR players being penalized if this change goes through? They still get loot, just not the same loot that actual raiders get (besides it being lower ilvl).

they already get weaker gear. No access to titles mounts or achievements.

[Therougetitan]

Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't.

I don't think there's enough info to tell yet. It'd be a nice incentive for non-tourist mode raiding but it'd be unfair somewhat. They'll surely announce such a thing though in upcoming interviews from the raid dev.

[Giscoicus]

Sounds like you're getting your wish. Apparently the new 5man heroics are going to be a step up and drop >= level gear to LFR.

Heroics<LFR

Challenge modes can reward gear on par with LFR. Challenge modes are a step above regular heroics, so I dont think it would make sense for heroics to give LFR gear as well.

However, if LFR gear is done differently it may help.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't.

I don't think there's enough info to tell yet. It'd be a nice incentive for non-tourist mode raiding but it'd be unfair somewhat. They'll surely announce such a thing though in upcoming interviews from the raid dev.

I'd like to think Blizzard would announce such a change, but to be fair, some players would get seriously upset if they could no longer get tier from LFR. Multiple threads have been posted on the forums about how LFR should not drop tier, and it was unsurprisingly met with backlash. I dont know if they would want to announce this far ahead of the expansion, if there is a change, but it would take away from all the flying threads

Also, it would help if there was more than neck items in the raid section.

[blackblade]

Heroics<LFR

Challenge modes can reward gear on par with LFR. Challenge modes are a step above regular heroics, so I dont think it would make sense for heroics to give LFR gear as well.

However, if LFR gear is done differently it may help.

More likely they'll move to a WLK where one random item of purple quality only drops off the end boss of a run, and challenge modes remove the loot from other bosses and still have a chance for said purps to drop off the last boss.

More or less, though, we don't know enough to get the pitchforks out or sing songs of praise at either camp. There's also the mystery of "what is replacing VP/JP" that has yet to be solved.

[Deleted]

There is no reason why LFR players should be penalised in such a way.

LFR being put on equal footing is not them being penalised. The players that have been put to the side has been players that enjoyed 5 man content. This change is making non-organised matchmaking content give equal rewards. That seems fairly logical to me. I would even argue that there is more effort going into a 5 man group than a LFR group. This will lower gear inflation while making 5 man content more viable without removing the viability of LFR as well as reducing the gear difference between a freshly dinged character and gear tuning of a normal mode raid.. Seems like a win/win/win/win for me.

Lets just put arbitrary numbers on this. Lets say item level goes like this.

5 man N - 600
5 man H - 613
LFR - 626
Flex - 639
Normal - 652
Heroic - 665

Compared to

5 man N - 600
5 man H / LFR - 613
Flex - 626
Normal - 639
Heroic - 652

It seems like an overall better spread in gear that makes more sense since they want to put more focus on 5 mans.