Does it bother anyone else that there will be no OP legendaries?

[Deleted]

There is other side of argument that if you every legendary is balanced with each other and you have no outliers, instead of trying to get 'op' one, first decently rolled random one will be all you ever need. One of reasons Blacksmithing legendaries don't feel legendary, they are yellows that might (with many tries) roll 5% higher values and that's it.

Well no... There can definitely be variance with the items in that they can be designed for different skills, such as an example for the crusader the Mortal Drama, Blade of Prophecy, Fate of the Fell. Or, the blacksmithing legendary weapons, which give 15-20% to an element, which is what rares won't do.

There can be several different options, from which you can choose, depending on your spec. They just don't need to be "overperforming", or bugged like the Shard was.

[Cairhiin]

Isn't that the point in a single player game? I mean every RPG I've ever played had super powerful game breaking abilities that you strive to get so you could own enemies. Take FF7. I think the combo was knights of the round, mimic. This isn't WoW, you are not competing against other people so please stop treating it like one.

No offense but this might be single player but we really didn't need one class to rule them all, and it once again being Barbarian. You guys were overpowered enough in vanilla D3, time to take a back burner I say. Shard of Hate was obviously broken (or do you think that a proc chance means 100%), the only ones you see complaining, are surprise Barbarians.

[Karlz0rz]

What bothers me, is the blatant whining from people getting "nerfed" by this. They stated the item is bugged, they fixed it. Whining about it won't make it un-fixed, and you will still have to play the game at the same level as most other people. And yes, this is coming from a former Arcane Orb mage who had to enchant pretty much all my gear over to something else after the bug fix! Guess what? I did it without whining like a little bitch on the forums .

[Deleted]

the only ones you see complaining, are surprise Barbarians.

And monks. And the only reason they're the ones complaining about it is because SoH was a BUILD DEFINING WEAPON for them and without that weapon, the build is stone dead in higher torments. You don't see Wizards or WDs complaining about SoH because those classes are;

1. Fundamentally more powerful than the barbarian because of the way they're designed or
2. They have other items that define their builds

Hit Mask of Jeram or Carnevil with a "nerf" or "fix" and watch the WD community go absolutely berzerk.

No offense but this might be single player but we really didn't need one class to rule them all, and it once again being Barbarian.

Barbarians were only overpowered towards the final patches of Diablo 3. While perma-WoTB was technically always possible since release, barbarians were trapped behind a gear wall because the game difficulty was so ridiculous that only wizards and DHs were capable of progressing through it, by exploiting broken or overpowered class mechanics.

Wizards were/still are overpowered due to their fundamental class design. Barbarians are now only overpowered with top-tier legendary/set items, which should be the whole point of the game. Put a wizard vs any other class and just give them level 70 rare items and see who's the most "overpowered".

What bothers me, is the blatant whining from people getting "nerfed" by this. They stated the item is bugged, they fixed it. Whining about it won't make it un-fixed, and you will still have to play the game at the same level as most other people. And yes, this is coming from a former Arcane Orb mage who had to enchant pretty much all my gear over to something else after the bug fix! Guess what? I did it without whining like a little bitch on the forums

And this is my point. You had a single SKILL nerfed. Nerfing SoH effectively made ANY lightning build for barbarian or monk completely ineffective and no that is not an understatement, try a lightning WW build on T6 with Odyn Son, Thunderfury or Fulminator and it's just pants. Worst case scenario for a wizard who was using Forb is that he has to re-roll the elemental damage on his items. Worst case scenario for a barbarian or monk is that they need to acquire an entirely new set of items.

As far as barbarians were concerned, fire builds and lightning builds were both viable end game builds. Fire builds are defined by cindercoat, lightning builds were defined by SoH. Now that SoH is no longer build defining, fire builds are now head and shoulders above lightning builds. So nerfing SoH didn't INCREASE build diversity, it DECREASED it.

[Karlz0rz]

And this is my point. You had a single SKILL nerfed. Nerfing SoH effectively made ANY lightning build for barbarian or monk completely ineffective and no that is not an understatement, try a lightning WW build on T6 with Odyn Son, Thunderfury or Fulminator and it's just pants. Worst case scenario for a wizard who was using Forb is that he has to re-roll the elemental damage on his items. Worst case scenario for a barbarian or monk is that they need to acquire [i]an entirely new set of items.

So what you are saying, is that Barbs/monks went from that ONE T6 build because of that ONE item, to maybe 2-3 "viable" T3-4 builds? Thank you for making my point even more clear. Welcome to the rest of the player base, we'll be greeting you at the T4 door!
The fact that you can even argue with a straight face regarding this broken weapon is beyond me...

[Bigbazz]

So what you are saying, is that Barbs/monks went from that ONE T6 build because of that ONE item, to maybe 2-3 "viable" T3-4 builds? Thank you for making my point even more clear. Welcome to the rest of the player base, we'll be greeting you at the T4 door!
The fact that you can even argue with a straight face regarding this broken weapon is beyond me...

I don't know if this just goes on deaf ears for convenience of your own argument, but it's been said multiple times and it's widely known that there were 2 other Barbarian builds that were as strong as the Shard of Hate WW build. So the Shard of Hate nerf has reduced build diversity, not improved it.

Both those other 2 builds are somewhat reliant on their own items too. All the people who claim that Shard is overpowered are seemingly completely ignorant to the fact that other specs and other classes were doing equally as well without it. All the Shard nerf has done is remove those specific lightning builds from the list of high torment viable builds.

The other builds remain, my fire build even without all the required gear is already allowing me to do T6, with all the gear in hand it's probably even stronger than the WW Shard build.

[Deleted]

The fact that you can even argue with a straight face regarding this broken weapon is beyond me...

This is probably because you lack the basic comprehension required to discuss the issue. The fact that you seem to think that my point is in agreement with yours proves this.

Fire builds were just as powerful, if not MORE powerful than a lightning build using SoH was. So shall we nerf the item(s) that make this fire build possible? The fact that SoH even allowed lightning monks or barbarians to do T6 is a moot point, because being able to clear T6 in itself does not offer any tangible advantage. Congratulations you can do T6! Here's a small linear increase in item drops, enjoy the EXPONENTIAL increase in mob health! I'm still not convinced it's possible for anyone to solo clear T6 for any tangible gain, even a player with the best possible equipment in the game.

The idea that SoH allowed you to smash through T6 was a myth created by jealous players stuck in lower torments, who incorrectly believed that SoH users were getting some kind of advantage over them. Judging from your post, you yourself are one of those players.

[cFortyfive]

the only ones you see complaining, are surprise Barbarians.

Obviously as it broke a spec. Lightning ww is bad without it.

So what you are saying, is that Barbs/monks went from that ONE T6 build because of that ONE item, to maybe 2-3 "viable" T3-4 builds? Thank you for making my point even more clear. Welcome to the rest of the player base, we'll be greeting you at the T4 door!
The fact that you can even argue with a straight face regarding this broken weapon is beyond me...

You still needed some of the best gear around to make it efficiently work on t6 just as other classes and not stand there in your shiny rares with soh and start melting faces. Now I wouldn't even recommend doing t4 with it so no idea what you are talking about.

[Deleted]

So shall we nerf the item(s) that make this fire build possible?

Well, "we" shan't nerf anything. "We" aren't Blizzard developers. However, if "the item(s)" making the build you're talking about aren't bugged and broken like Shard of Hate was, then no. We - they - shan't.

Shard of Hate was fixed, because it was a piece of buggy code.

[Granyala]

Who gives a shit about softcore. x_X Nothing against sc players but getting high paragon levels on sc is not much of an achievement tbh.

Considering the fact that:
1) You can level a HC char from 1 to 70 in 2hrs via Torment 6/1 carry
2) You generally keep your gear stashed

it's not exactly the epitome of skill to get Paragon levels on HC.
It's just more time invested.

ummm...what......that makes zero sense.

Getting torment ready on HC is pure faceroll. I've done it multiple times.
Hardcore = more time wasted on death.
Nothing less, nothing more.

I play SC, because it gives me the option to test how far I can push a character. In HC you either have too much time on your hands, or you just play it safe.
Boring.

What bothers me, is the blatant whining from people getting "nerfed" by this. They stated the item is bugged, they fixed it.

If it's a bug, they should get their heads out of their asses and hotfix it within days.
It wasn't a bug, it was a nerf due to popularity.
You don't derp around with a "gamebraking" bug like that for a month+.

[Deleted]

it's not exactly the epitome of skill to get Paragon levels on HC.
It's just more time invested.

Where, exactly, is there skill involved in getting paragon levels on SC? I think the point here was that on HC, you need at least some semblance of skill to stay alive (whereas on SC you can be a blind two year old muskrat and still succeed) and it'll take you longer, which would make a level 700 paragon on HC somewhat of an accomplishment right now.

And yes, I do play SC myself.

[Granyala]

Where, exactly, is there skill involved in getting paragon levels on SC? I think the point here was that on HC, you need at least some semblance of skill to stay alive (whereas on SC you can be a blind two year old muskrat and still succeed) and it'll take you longer, which would make a level 700 paragon on HC somewhat of an accomplishment right now.

And yes, I do play SC myself.

You can do the same in HC, by only playing crap you vastly outgear.
In fact thats what most of my clan did for a while until I told them that I move to SC, because I find HC to be friggin boring.
And no: Grinding Diablo has nothing to do with skill whatsoever.

To be frank: Unless you deliberately go in undergeared, this entire game takes 0 skill.
On top of that, a vortex/freeze combo at the wrong time can completely instagib your character, and since there is no counter to vortex, all your precious player skill is meaningless.

PS: This is off topic, so we shouldn't drag this out.

[bufferunderrun]

Imho the real problem is that blizzard had taken too much from wow itemization and it simply don't work well in diablo:

1) skill based on weapon damage: first big error done by blizzard, essentially the weapon slot has become the most important thing much like it is in wow, back in d2 weapon was just another slot to the point that many peoples used low level weapon with cool effect all the way to end game

2) main stat on gear: second big error blizzard has done and another thing borrowed from wow, now you are pretty much forced into a tiered system that wasn't the case in d2 a cool piece was only limited by the level requirement to equip it not by the budget of stats a cool weapon or helm dropped in low level was good even on high level

3) random affix on legendaries: third big error done by blizzard, in d2 legendaries where called uniques those item's stats where fixed you know that a certain mask was going to give you a certain set of affixes the only rng factor was how high those stat rolled nothing more.

those for me are the biggest error done also you can list, MF rendered completely useless, Boss dropping nothing etc etc.

[Deleted]

To be frank: Unless you deliberately go in undergeared, this entire game takes 0 skill.
On top of that, a vortex/freeze combo at the wrong time can completely instagib your character, and since there is no counter to vortex, all your precious player skill is meaningless.

That or you just get hit by a bad case of lag spiking and find you've just died for no good reason.

[Maconi]

Imho the real problem is that blizzard had taken too much from wow itemization and it simply don't work well in diablo:

1) skill based on weapon damage: first big error done by blizzard, essentially the weapon slot has become the most important thing much like it is in wow, back in d2 weapon was just another slot to the point that many peoples used low level weapon with cool effect all the way to end game

2) main stat on gear: second big error blizzard has done and another thing borrowed from wow, now you are pretty much forced into a tiered system that wasn't the case in d2 a cool piece was only limited by the level requirement to equip it not by the budget of stats a cool weapon or helm dropped in low level was good even on high level

3) random affix on legendaries: third big error done by blizzard, in d2 legendaries where called uniques those item's stats where fixed you know that a certain mask was going to give you a certain set of affixes the only rng factor was how high those stat rolled nothing more.

those for me are the biggest error done also you can list, MF rendered completely useless, Boss dropping nothing etc etc.

All of those were designed with the RMAH in mind (make it extremely hard to obtain the perfect set of gear, encouraging people to turn to the RMAH to obtain it). Now that the RMAH is gone it really serves no purpose to have so many random rolls on gear.

More of the important stats should be static and the Mystic shouldn't keep giving you the same stat choices multiple times. This isn't an MMORPG with a sub or cash shop, there is NO reason for all these time sinks.

We should be having fun with build diversity (trying out all sorts of different skill combinations), not struggling to obtain a single set of gear for a single build.

[Cthulhu 2020]

There is other side of argument that if you every legendary is balanced with each other and you have no outliers, instead of trying to get 'op' one, first decently rolled random one will be all you ever need. One of reasons Blacksmithing legendaries don't feel legendary, they are yellows that might (with many tries) roll 5% higher values and that's it.

Not really. There are many legendaries that have "Good" passives while some have "Better" passives and even then, if you get one with better passives, there' always the opportunity to roll higher. Making it so that only one was viable was incredibly asinine.

[Deleted]

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12506571517

So it turns out Blizzard broke SoH by implementing an "on hit" coefficient for a weapon that has no "on hit" effect, which really makes you question if they really have any idea what they're doing at all.

[Revolutions]

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12506571517

So it turns out Blizzard broke SoH by implementing an "on hit" coefficient for a weapon that has no "on hit" effect, which really makes you question if they really have any idea what they're doing at all.

The point of this thread is not the SoH nerf, but rather the legendaries to come. I find SoH rather lack luster after the "fix" so what's the point of putting in more legendaries that will just be brimstoned?

[Fencers]

I think if Blizzard approached Legendary items the way Path of Exile does Unique items the "item hunt" could be a lot more interesting than currently.

A lot of items in D3 are just more stats. Which can be a little flat. Using most of the legendary items is not inherently interesting. Whereas Path of Exile Unique items are created two-fold; some are straight stat sticks, but they often are only increases in a certain bracket of item level. But the majority of Unique items are designed with an interesting kink or wrinkle that forcibly changes the way the player has to consider the item in Path of Exile.

That is the ideal of game design, forcing the player to consider the mechanics of play.

D3 is loads of fun but it's ultimately a very "one-direction" sort of game. But there is a lot that could be done to the legendary items to break some of that feeling in design.

[Coldkil]

The point of this thread is not the SoH nerf, but rather the legendaries to come. I find SoH rather lack luster after the "fix" so what's the point of putting in more legendaries that will just be brimstoned?

Kinda agree on this. Legendaries should be all powerful because of their orange text and we need many more of them. Keeping out SoH, anyway we need shards also for enchanting, which means we need a certain number of "low tier" legendaries which are destined to a shard (or they could rethink enchanting costs).