Remove presences?

[Challenge]

I mean I just don't see the point in them. They dont really add to gameplay and is just a crutch for pvp blood presence unholy, and the rare chance you have to OT something in pve, (none this tier).

My suggestion?

Why not just baked the effects of each presence into the respective specs and replace presences with auras. Auras are just toggled group buffs you can change to meet the group compositions/personal needs (unholy aura=haste frost aura= mastery blood aura=stamina buff)

[Skarssen]

Their current incarnation is pretty much worthless. Like you said, the presence effects could just be baked into an aura for each spec. I think presences COULD be interesting, but a) I don't think they will make those sorts of changes, and b) I don't think they will ever remove them. Same for warrior stances. While the old method of tying warrior abilities to stances was much cooler and made thematic sense, it was just a bitch in application and meant that people would just macro everything, and it really punished those with anything over 100ms latency. As far as blood presence and PVP, it just feels bad because DKs give up A LOT more (particularly frost) offensive pressure by sitting in BP than warriors do by sitting in d stance.

[Veszmyr]

"none this tier"

Well, actually, I am the primary soaker for Embodied Anguish on Heroic Fallen Protectors for my group. I throw up Blood Presence for the increased HP pool/Damage reduction and rotate AMS and IBF and then pass. I'm able to get up to 10-12 stacks doing this and he's normally at about half HP. Not using Blood Presence would have killed me in a couple of cases that I can think of just giving it a quick thought. So that statement would really depend on your individual roll in the raid/level of content.

"Why not just baked most effects into the respective specs and give each a aura"

I'll pose a question to you; why do so? The presences are not in Blizzards definition of bloat, so what would be the reason you think they should be baked into the specs themselves? Because you don't use them?

[Knough]

If you need to get somewhere ever so slightly faster; unholy spec
If you need to take damage; blood
If you're about to be CC-ed; frost
Otherwise, stick to your spec

Seems fine to me?

[Challenge]

"none this tier"

Well, actually, I am the primary soaker for Embodied Anguish on Heroic Fallen Protectors for my group. I throw up Blood Presence for the increased HP pool/Damage reduction and rotate AMS and IBF and then pass. I'm able to get up to 10-12 stacks doing this and he's normally at about half HP. Not using Blood Presence would have killed me in a couple of cases that I can think of just giving it a quick thought. So that statement would really depend on your individual roll in the raid/level of content.

"Why not just baked most effects into the respective specs and give each a aura"

I'll pose a question to you; why do so? The presences are not in Blizzards definition of bloat, so what would be the reason you think they should be baked into the specs themselves? Because you don't use them?

Uhm, yeah... Or they could make ibf not a barkskin on 3 min cd and a real shield wall?

Its not really bloat by blizzards definition, still pointless to have with extremly rare circumstances to use bp as a dps spec to off tank something. Not to mention use dps lost in pvp ( which is not fun but you have to sit in it)

[Nomisno]

Also I like using unholy presence ooc to actually reach my destination

They *could* remove them, but if they don't, why would one really care?

[Raugnaut]

They don't need to be removed. They do not contribute to button bloat. They do have certain usage in PvP/PvE. They have a penalty attached to them so that you can't simply swap whenever you want. Why remove em?

[Chain Chungus]

Meh, they are fine.

They just need to make the Shifting Presences glyph allow you to keep 100% of your RP. Pointless downside to that glyph imo.

[Schizoide]

They aren't bloat by Blizzard's definition of redundant or unnecessary primary priority/rotational buttons, because you never press those buttons. That doesn't mean they serve a purpose, though. Frost and Unholy presence could be baked-in to the relevant specs.

PvP DKs do switch in and out of Blood Presence. If it were up to me I'd still remove it, and improve the DPS specs' survivability/mitigation cooldowns instead.

[Challenge]

Yes what schiz said

[dextersmith]

I mean I just don't see the point in them. They dont really add to gameplay and is just a crutch for pvp blood presence unholy, and the rare chance you have to OT something in pve, (none this tier).

Why not just baked most effects into the respective specs and give each a aura (unholy aura , attack speed frost aura, mastery blood aura, stamina buff)

I agree. Each spec is tied to its presence anyway, there's no choice.

[Deleted]

I do agree they're kinda boring at the moment. If they were changed to be more like stances (for example) they could be a little more interesting. Like changing runic power generation rates or something.

[Challenge]

In Wotlk they had improved presences where you retained some effect of your spec's presence in a different one, which I liked and feels like it would be good in today's meta for pvp. Example from Wotlk


Blood Presence
Instant
Strengthens the Death Knight with the presence of blood, increasing damage by 15% and healing the Death Knight by 4% of damage dealt. Only one Presence may be active at a time.


Improved Blood Presence
Instant
While in Frost Presence or Unholy Presence, you retain 4% healing from Blood Presence, and healing done to you is increased by 10% in Blood Presence.



Or they could go a new direction and do something like

Blood presence-increases armor by x, reduces damage by y, increases healing by z
Frost presence- increases strike damage and soul reaper and death coil by x and increase the effectiveness of necrotic strike by y
Unholy presence- increases damage of death and decay, howling blast, blood boil, breath of sindragosa, and diseases by x

With a tied cd of something short like 1.5 mins or 1 min.

I just feel there sooooo much wasted potential here with these abilities. Current implication they might as we'll be buff auras for the party.

[Minetor]

The presences have made 0 sense since they took the presence part out of em years ago you know when they buffed other players when you was in the presence of a death knight that was the whole point of em being called presences.

[Pandapuncher]

"doesnt work" > "remove it"

should not be a design philosophy

how about blood increases healing, frost increases crit, unholy increases haste

Then you can switch based on what you need. there was times back in the way when you would switch on the fly.

Like, OT? go frost when you arent soaking dmg

[SlippyCheeze]

"doesnt work" > "remove it"
should not be a design philosophy
how about blood increases healing, frost increases crit, unholy increases haste
Then you can switch based on what you need. there was times back in the way when you would switch on the fly.
Like, OT? go frost when you arent soaking dmg

Yeah, that isn't gonna happen. The devs don't like stance dancing as part of DPS, and think it is a bad mechanic. So it won't come back just for the DK. (Personally, I agree with them, but whatevs, our tastes don't matter compared to their stated position and changes to other classes to avoid it.

[Minetor]

Did anyone read my last post the presences make 0 sense they are ment to buff other players that was there whole design so blizz need to remove/rename them because you can't be in the presence of your self or make them effect other players with a buff or utility or debuff enemies.

[SlippyCheeze]

Did anyone read my last post the presences make 0 sense they are ment to buff other players that was there whole design so blizz need to remove/rename them because you can't be in the presence of your self or make them effect other players with a buff or utility or debuff enemies.

Well, if it helps, I did, and I thought "ha, another post where someone thinks Blizzard developers act based on what was, not what is"; it has been routinely demonstrated, I believe, that the developers look at the current state of the game, and their desired positioning of classes, and not very much at how things originated.

Sure, they were once intended to do that, but that isn't what they do any more. So arguing to remove them because they stopped doing what they originally did without addressing *WHAT THEY DO NOW* is just gonna be ignored by Blizzard. Also, me.

[Challenge]

Right, and what they do now is nothing.

Give hunters an aspect that includes thier number tuning, such as 200%+ arcane shot damage, and causing arcane shot to auto apply serpent sting.

Or give paladins a new seal that increases haste 20% and makes your judgement generate a holy power
(Sarcasm obv, I know one is a wod perk the other is already there)

This is practically what presences are. Not even flavor just a button to keep on permanently as a number tuning tool. So much wasted potential here. Not even button bloat by definition cause you dont have to have it bound, but you still gotta use it once every few days you respect / switch dual specs.

- - - Updated - - -

Also why do some people think there is some gaming to presence dancing?

1. Useless as blood cause you lose all your vengeance, plus 20% runic power generation , plus death strike stacking before next swap, plus if the other tank gets a lot of vengeance, now your behind and struggling to hold threat. Not to mention lost of all RP with a glyph (which is a total waste)

2. As a dps you lose a shit on of dps not being in your respective presence for a 10% damage reduction and some max hp from the stamina buff. Going back and forth dumps all your RP both times switching without a glyph( again, a waste) , no sudden doom procs plus massive haste loss, practically 50% less frost strikes, so sitting BP for long is not feasible at all. Only worth it for a "impale" type of ability, which as DPS I don't think there has been one this expansion, and times when you cannot hit the boss and there are no adds to hit for a extended period of time (Lei Shen it has use, as well as heroic jugg run away strat) which is rare.

3. Presence dancing is not ORIGINALLY intended to work like stances, there was a blue post about it when wrath first came out.

[LilSaihah]

"doesnt work" > "remove it"

should not be a design philosophy

how about blood increases healing, frost increases crit, unholy increases haste

Then you can switch based on what you need. there was times back in the way when you would switch on the fly.

Like, OT? go frost when you arent soaking dmg

Why not just make them cooldowns instead of stances, because you'll be using them as such anyway?

'Delete' isn't a dirty word. If a system is doing literally nothing, it should be deleted. Presences don't really do much at all for PvE DKs, as I understand.