WoD DoT behavior formally announced

[Agartha]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/134...riodic_effects

"If we balance around taking full advantage of snapshotting, then the players who aren’t doing so would fall unacceptably far behind in damage output."

RIP feral
RIP wow

[Deleted]

hehe rip feral..hehe

my condolences though

[Dreyen]

"rip wow" simply because of a dubious method of re-dotting? lol.

Unloading all you have when trinket procs happen will still be a thing, just not snapshotting. Feral will still be able to snapshot off tiger's fury, which is much better than relying on an RNG proc..

[Deleted]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/134...riodic_effects

"If we balance around taking full advantage of snapshotting, then the players who aren’t doing so would fall unacceptably far behind in damage output."

RIP feral
RIP wow

As a Feral player i welcome this. Snapshotting is nice, but in my opinion it got out of hand. Tiger Furor, Berserk, Savage Roar, Trinket Proccs, Dream of Cenarius with Healing Proc, 2-3 Bleeds to follow, 4T-Proc, Omen Procc Energy management and raid buff (and think about RoRo). Buff yourself, apply DoT, keep DoC: any Trinket Proccs? No. Then 4 CP, Procc? Yes. k now fast Tigerfuror und Healing Touch and reapply 2 DoTs. Energy enough for Savage Roar? Is TF in synch with your DoTs or do you need to DoT one round without it? Is your current DoT with 2 Buffs stronger/weaker than 3 Buff-DoT? Would only give 10% more Damage better wait for a better combination. Omen proc on Trash or Shred? Oh wait not Shred because RoRo procced.

Its a while i played WoW:SoO but essentially this is the game as a Feral. In addition you need to watch your surroundings and track the Boss and Combopoints. It not only take time to understand the Feral Abilities, you need a ton of expirience to stay on par with other classes (or top them) and this for every encounter. And the biggest issue: if you miss one opportunity or misjudge the situation you will lose a significant amount of your damage.
I must admit, to a certain point this makes this class so appealing, compared to my Enchancment Shaman or Monk. The additional difficulty divides you from the average player. But in this expansion, i again had the feeling that some mechanics are unnecessary complex, bloating your priorities and are utterly redundant. In short, difficult for the sake of being difficult. With the recent changes, its gotten easier to get into the Feral specc. You still need to track abilities, buffs etc. but it will not represent the big part of your damage. For newcomers it will be easier to get into Feral specc, while you still have room to grow.

Edit: And we should not forget the Ticks. Refresh at 2-4s left on your Bleed because there is not a tick left even if they have the buff on them.

[Zstr]

can I call you `ferals SoO babies`? can you fucking tell me how the fuck people played before that RoR trinket time?
that snapshotting was here only 1.5 of tier, before noone fucking cared of it, and people are crying out that it been removed and downlet the whole class spec...
ferals is going back to cata model where direct damage abilities are going to take more places in rotation I hope, otherwise feral is going to suck again in low duratation fights and especially pvp
you have not seen class in action yet in new expansion, it's only and alpha stage yet, and you already putting class in the grave...
if you still won't like it there are 11 classes with 3 spec = 33 other different choice to go with!!!

[ryklin]

actually feral snapshotting has been a really big thing for a long time, it's also the only reason the world first kill of nef even happened back in 4.0 before they nerfed him

RoRO made it a lot more important comparatively though, regularly the 10-20% more dps you get from snapshotting is more of just the difference between a middle-of-the-pack (that's still pretty high up if played well)
and top of meters or close to it, even in a really good guild (the difference grows more in later tiers due to abundance of combo points from more crit/haste and more combo points meaning more chances to rip)

all it did this xpac was make that gap even bigger because of a silly trinket that made it bigger as well as made crit and haste more viable stats
however, it's definitely always been a good way for any dps to push out more dps, even if only in small amounts

it's a much smaller issue for ferals than it is for locks and dks and about equal in difference for boomkins
it was also really big in 4.0 because pre-nerf feral mastery was a silly-powerful stat and there were a couple mastery procs then on blues going into the tier

[Deleted]

I must say, I am enjoying my feral right now. Snapshots feel rewarding. If you pay a a lot of attention, get a bit lucky and play very well overall, you do more damage then other classes. While I think that's how every class in this game should work it is simply not the case. Other classes have a lower skill ceiling and therefore this "nerf" to feral is understandable. What I would like is raising the skill ceiling for other classes by adding extra mechanics and leaving snapshots as is. But it is what it is.

I am sad to see snapshots go, but as long as they make sure ferals are still strong damage dealers I am fine with it.

[Zstr]

actually feral snapshotting has been a really big thing for a long time, it's also the only reason the world first kill of nef even happened back in 4.0 before they nerfed him

Paragon stacked druids for rooting adds, not coz it was OP in dmg, that overpowered mastery was nerfed quickly into buffing mangle and shred, and it was mostly because of pvp
snapshotting that was before it stays , trinket proc will change dots strengh dinamicaly, people ofcourse will give feedback and developers will balance it in they way they think it will be need, it's almost half year to go
if you are good player you will never be out, people who played feral long before will not see much difference and will still be playing,
rerollers, who change their class each tier depends of overpowerness, are those whiny noizes whom I hear moaning and crying they got nerf which is not yet revealed

[Deleted]

Paragon stacked druids for rooting adds, not coz it was OP in dmg, that overpowered mastery was nerfed quickly into buffing mangle and shred, and it was mostly because of pvp

The nefarian damage increase lasted something like 10 seconds and rip was scaling absurdly well with it. That's why they stacked ferals.
I don't know how it was before Dragon Soul, but there was little mention of snapshotting dots until halfway through Throne of Thunder, so I don't disagree with your initial post.

I personally will probably quit playing feral in WoD as well, seeing as the high skill cap as feral was what kept me interested (and not playing a healer in stead). The removal of snapshotting is quite a tiny change for us. Pandemic, CP change, No DoC, No shred/mangle choice, Multi-rake and a SR passive talent are far more important.

[lappee]

actually feral snapshotting has been a really big thing for a long time, it's also the only reason the world first kill of nef even happened back in 4.0 before they nerfed him

Rip just was the best dot in game, if there was a better one, then we would've used that. (also ferals had the greatest survivability for that fight - bear form)

but true, feral snapshotting has been there for a long time. But before it hasnt been ~that~ big of a deal since there wasnt as strong trinket and whatnot procs

[exochaft]

The nefarian damage increase lasted something like 10 seconds and rip was scaling absurdly well with it. That's why they stacked ferals.
I don't know how it was before Dragon Soul, but there was little mention of snapshotting dots until halfway through Throne of Thunder, so I don't disagree with your initial post.

I personally will probably quit playing feral in WoD as well, seeing as the high skill cap as feral was what kept me interested (and not playing a healer in stead). The removal of snapshotting is quite a tiny change for us. Pandemic, CP change, No DoC, No shred/mangle choice, Multi-rake and a SR passive talent are far more important.

The snapshotting change, not just for Ferals but across the board, should be a welcome change from a balancing perspective. Having a previous tier trinket being useful in case you get horrid luck in the next raid is one thing, your DPS output being only good if procs go your way is completely another. A general shift in Feral to being more reliable in multiple situations is a good thing, even if people believe it will kill the skill cap (even though much of the "skill" is still based on luck and reacting to it). There have progressively been more things that have precluded Ferals from being a go-to raid staple in recent times, and many of these changes (including the snapshotting change) will allow Ferals to have better representation. I'd rather see Ferals brought in because the player is good, not because of gimmicks associated with the class.

WoW, that took forever to type... I'm going to kill all these MMO-C advertisements!

[Aboubacar]

Paragon stacked druids for rooting adds

wot?? There's like a hungering cold (RIP) used a lot near the end to help the kiter. bear form every crackle :O

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MQyH78aqT4
find an entangling root for me plz

[Deleted]

The snapshotting change, not just for Ferals but across the board, should be a welcome change from a balancing perspective. Having a previous tier trinket being useful in case you get horrid luck in the next raid is one thing, your DPS output being only good if procs go your way is completely another. A general shift in Feral to being more reliable in multiple situations is a good thing, even if people believe it will kill the skill cap (even though much of the "skill" is still based on luck and reacting to it). There have progressively been more things that have precluded Ferals from being a go-to raid staple in recent times, and many of these changes (including the snapshotting change) will allow Ferals to have better representation. I'd rather see Ferals brought in because the player is good, not because of gimmicks associated with the class.

WoW, that took forever to type... I'm going to kill all these MMO-C advertisements!

I agree with you, it would be a good thing if they removed that luck component. The difficulty that I enjoyed BY FAR THE MOST about feral was early MoP and using DoC. I was hoping we could get back to that. The difficulty was DoC and energy starvation. You had to think about what to do next way before you did it.

The snapshotting difficulty was a gimmick, but hey, I'll take it if it means I have to focus more on my dps. I crave difficulty while doing damage. Once I got used to the fights in SoO, I started using DoC again, just to have some fun.

It's what interests me about feral. If it is removed then I have a reason to play healer, which honestly, I don't mind.

[Agartha]

Snapshotting wasn't a gimmick, it was a mechanic, and they removed it because of the lowest common denominator. The quote I posted should worry everyone in the game who isn't an lfr hero.

[lappee]

Snapshotting wasn't a gimmick, it was a mechanic, and they removed it because of the lowest common denominator. The quote I posted should worry everyone in the game who isn't an lfr hero.

how come? better people will still be better, just not by as huge margin.

Im not worried, guess im lfr hero \o/

[Deleted]

Snapshotting wasn't a gimmick, it was a mechanic, and they removed it because of the lowest common denominator. The quote I posted should worry everyone in the game who isn't an lfr hero.

Hey, LFR Hero here. Lets talk about the obvious. If you want to play your Feral druid, you are forced to play it with Addons or you can calculate really fast. For expirienced player, snapshotting itself is not a challenge. Its harder to get into it, compared to other classes, but its doable. Which makes snapshotting so hard is the amount of buffs you have and the random nature of them (Proccs).
First of all, you always need to know the current DoT value on your target. Then you need to know the current potential value of your DoT. For this, you need to write (i.e. Weak Auras) code which saves the value of the current target DoT and calculates your new potential DoT damage every time a new buff appears or an old buff disappears. The easiest way to compare both values is to save both values internally and just give out the quotient of both values in percentage. Now you need to evaluate, in witch percantage it is useful to refresh your DoT. Additionally you need a buff tracker, which scans all buffs and gives you the number of the lowest duration on a buff.

The question is, why i am telling you this? First, to show how the mechanic works (which im sure you know already) and second, the most important part, how easy it is, to dumb down a mechanic to rateable numbers, after you understand it. In a simplified version, you just work off your priority list, while the Quotient says if you should start your list from the beginning (apply DoTs) and the buff tracker says if the timeframe is enough to do it. If you want to deal even more damage, you become anticipatory for quotients with bigger values.
So at the end snapshotting is not a "hard" mechanic. With the change of snapshotting, what will change in this given scenario? With dynamical calculation, you have same values in top and bottom of the fraction, hence you can cancel it. Thus you dont need to track it on your buff tracker -> your timeframe for refreshing becomes bigger and the value of the quotient change much lesser -> you need to refresh much lesser.

My predictions is, that the priority list itself becomes more difficult compared to MoP. We will have 1 DoT more to track and refresh (Moonfire), Trash could have a higher priority which needs to be refreshed too. So We have more to track/refresh than before, if my assumption is right. This should be enough compensation for dynamical DoT calculation. In addition the learning curve getting much flatter, the new calculation is more intuitive than before which makes it easier for newcomers and balancing is simpler.

But how should i know, im just a LFR Hero. Look at me i am judgmental, a populist which cant give arguments in a discussion, only diffame others and Blizzard sucks.

[Juvencus]

Hey, LFR Hero here. Lets talk about the obvious. If you want to play your Feral druid, you are forced to play it with Addons or you can calculate really fast. For expirienced player, snapshotting itself is not a challenge. Its harder to get into it, compared to other classes, but its doable. Which makes snapshotting so hard is the amount of buffs you have and the random nature of them (Proccs).
First of all, you always need to know the current DoT value on your target. Then you need to know the current potential value of your DoT. For this, you need to write (i.e. Weak Auras) code which saves the value of the current target DoT and calculates your new potential DoT damage every time a new buff appears or an old buff disappears. The easiest way to compare both values is to save both values internally and just give out the quotient of both values in percentage. Now you need to evaluate, in witch percantage it is useful to refresh your DoT. Additionally you need a buff tracker, which scans all buffs and gives you the number of the lowest duration on a buff.

The question is, why i am telling you this? First, to show how the mechanic works (which im sure you know already) and second, the most important part, how easy it is, to dumb down a mechanic to rateable numbers, after you understand it. In a simplified version, you just work off your priority list, while the Quotient says if you should start your list from the beginning (apply DoTs) and the buff tracker says if the timeframe is enough to do it. If you want to deal even more damage, you become anticipatory for quotients with bigger values.
So at the end snapshotting is not a "hard" mechanic. With the change of snapshotting, what will change in this given scenario? With dynamical calculation, you have same values in top and bottom of the fraction, hence you can cancel it. Thus you dont need to track it on your buff tracker -> your timeframe for refreshing becomes bigger and the value of the quotient change much lesser -> you need to refresh much lesser.

My predictions is, that the priority list itself becomes more difficult compared to MoP. We will have 1 DoT more to track and refresh (Moonfire), Trash could have a higher priority which needs to be refreshed too. So We have more to track/refresh than before, if my assumption is right. This should be enough compensation for dynamical DoT calculation. In addition the learning curve getting much flatter, the new calculation is more intuitive than before which makes it easier for newcomers and balancing is simpler.

But how should i know, im just a LFR Hero. Look at me i am judgmental, a populist which cant give arguments in a discussion, only diffame others and Blizzard sucks.

" LFR hero" is such a derogatory and disrespectful title. It's mostly targeted to people who don't care about their damage, as it happens much in LFR pugs but it doesn't mean that all people who don't have the time to put in game don't try to be the best they can be. A monkey could figure out that you needed to apply dots with UVLS and keep them there.

I couldn't care less about snapshotting remaining or not. After all it's just a mechanic among many others that we have to understand to do well in meters. Readiness and multistrike are much more interesting and I would like to see them more interactive than they currently are. I also hope that with the OP potential of snapshotting out of the way, Blizzard, could come up with new interesting trinkets that would have been game breaking with the current DoT and extension system.

[Deleted]

" LFR hero" is such a derogatory and disrespectful title. It's mostly targeted to people who don't care about their damage, as it happens much in LFR pugs but it doesn't mean that all people who don't have the time to put in game don't try to be the best they can be. A monkey could figure out that you needed to apply dots with UVLS and keep them there. (..)

I understand if you are for or against a standpoint. But diffame someone because he/she has another standpoint than you is stupid. Thats what i meant and thats why the sentence have irony in it.

[Dreyen]

Honestly, Snapshotting off trinket procs is a pretty bad mechanic.. it requires you to track cooldowns, to be aware of the mechanic... Snapshotting off your eclipse is great though, it's something that's intuitive and makes sense.

I'd rather have the game be more challenging on other things that trinket procs honestly.

[teddabear]

Is Blizzard getting rid of Execute for everybody? 99% of the damage boost came from extending a snapshot, the other 1% was that sad joke that is Ferocious Bite. Since FB will still be impotent in WOD is everybody else losing Execute as well?