BM Monk Optimezed

[britishbubba]

I don't think you are understanding entirely what I'm saying.

Look at your Boots. the Unrepentant heels. In those you have an agil Gem in a Yellow socket.
Then look at you weapon. Kor'kron spire of supremacy it has a RED socket. But you have crit gem in it.

So you have a Yellow gem in a RED slot and a RED gem in a Yellow slot.

If I had swapped my gems since I played WW last, all 4 of those red gems would be 320 crit. I said that in the last post, and the post before that. I don't gem agi for BrM, no one does (at least not pure agi).

[Deleted]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...smash/advanced

EDIt: I mean yeah, if agi gave some real benifit It'd be worth... but really what do you get out of it? Some AP that doesn't scale with vengeance, less crit than a crit gem gives, and a small amount of dodge. Is 60 agi per gem really worth that?

Gemming a crafty (160 crit/160exp) + a 60 agi socketbonus will simply put you at -160 crit, +160exp + 60 agi. As you said, you can reforge into all of your expertise/hit, although you havent done so yourself. Not regemming for OS is one thing, but reforging is cheap and quick and just lazy not to. Lets assume you'd have gear where no crit is reforged into exp/hit at all, while gemming agi/crit.

For each socket youre trading 140 agility for 160 crit. Alot of people dont disagree that the tradeoff isnt worth it, and will definitely not be worth it if you're losing out on crit because youre reforging into exp/hit (which at ilvl 564 is a possibility). Also, according to your own quote agi has 3 times the survivalvalue. If my memory serves me right ~800 agi adds 1% crit, while 600 critrating adds 1% crit, so 1 per 1 I'd assume agility would be better considering AP+crit+ defensivevalue.

[britishbubba]

Gemming a crafty (160 crit/160exp) + a 60 agi socketbonus will simply put you at -160 crit, +160exp + 60 agi. As you said, you can reforge into all of your expertise/hit, although you havent done so yourself. Not regemming for OS is one thing, but reforging is cheap and quick and just lazy not to. Lets assume you'd have gear where no crit is reforged into exp/hit at all, while gemming agi/crit.

For each socket youre trading 140 agility for 160 crit. Alot of people dont disagree that the tradeoff isnt worth it, and will definitely not be worth it if you're losing out on crit because youre reforging into exp/hit (which at ilvl 564 is a possibility). Also, according to your own quote agi has 3 times the survivalvalue. If my memory serves me right ~800 agi adds 1% crit, while 600 critrating adds 1% crit, so 1 per 1 I'd assume agility would be better considering AP+crit+ defensivevalue.

It's not going to be better in terms of DPS. I don't gem exp/crit in reds because I get all of my expertise without forging out of crit for it. I'm forged out of crit on ONE piece (and it's to hit). 439 crit forged into hit, as far as I'm concerned that's so close to even with what it'd be if I put hit/crit gems in a few blues that I just don't care.

I mean, it goes back to what I said in my first post. If you're going for defensive stats, you don't gem crit. Idgaf about my agi socket bonuses because I don't need survavbility anymore, I out gear the two fights I actually still tank. A 564 BrM starting into heroics is going to have a comfortable enough of an ilvl edge on the bosses they're doing to be able to just forgo mastery, which lets them just gem straight crit because the minor defensive gains from 60 agi on a socket bonus is irrelevant.

I mean, by all means this is all just my opinion. I just can't justify it in my head that the agi is worth the socket when what I get out of the trade is either more haste (which I don't need) or more mastery (which I also don't need) as I would no longer need to forge those stats into expertise due to having exp/crit gems in my sockets... so I just slam crit and ignore the socket bonuses because to me, it's just not worth the trade off. Maybe if I tanked 25m it would be worth it so as to gain a few thousand mastery in the trade.

EDIT: http://i.imgur.com/JXLhk4i.png

That's what changes if I were to put exp/crit gems in red sockets. 0/10, not worth. Not "wasting" stats by being at exact exp and hit caps, and getting socket bonuses LOSES me crit.

[RuneeBH]

Not sure if trolling or just didn't see that OP was asking about BrM monks..

I laughed..idk either. Idk why people are giving out advice if they don't even know the basics of the class. Agility is bad. That is like BrM 101 right there..you don't even have to read to understand it, it is just common sense lol

- - - Updated - - -

If my memory serves me right ~800 agi adds 1% crit, while 600 critrating adds 1% crit, so 1 per 1 I'd assume agility would be better considering AP+crit+ defensivevalue.

No, you don't consider the AP because it is so minuscule (unless you're like..soloing/leveling or something)...agi is less crit than 1 crit point...and the defensive value actually just diminishes the strength of your elusive brew. So, agility is essentially useless.

[Smurfz]

So, agility is essentially useless.

I could find about 100 threads that contradict that statement on this site and battle.net. I could also find a number of players in heroic that stack agil gems primarily. I just don't feel like putting that much time into the this thread. I'll let the OP do the research and play with the numbers themselves.

[britishbubba]

I could find about 100 threads that contradict that statement on this site and battle.net. I could also find a number of players in heroic that stack agil gems primarily. I just don't feel like putting that much time into the this thread. I'll let the OP do the research and play with the numbers themselves.

I seriously doubt you will find a single brewmaster monk that stacks pure agility gems, that is actually decent at the game.

[Deleted]

I could find about 100 threads that contradict that statement on this site and battle.net. I could also find a number of players in heroic that stack agil gems primarily. I just don't feel like putting that much time into the this thread. I'll let the OP do the research and play with the numbers themselves.

/implying our base attack power is why Brewmasters do such high damage

Why on earth would you gem for agility like... about 80-90% of our attack power comes from the Vengeance we get from tanking the harder hitting heroic bosses. Having a tiny increase in base attack power is meaningless, as it will be eclipsed by the gain we get from Vengeance anyway. Meanwhile, stacking Crit rating as opposed to pure Agility will always lead to higher damage output, as it directly compliments the attack power we gain from Vengeance.

tl;dr, couple of extra 100 attack power = nothing at high vengeance, couple of extra 100 crit rating + much more at high vengeance

[eflow]

^^^ What this guy said.

Crit has practically zero defensive value, literally every other stat is better than it in terms of defensive value. The point of me stating that though was someone saying you should match socket bonuses, which is imo pointless as crit is better than agi for dps (and most sockets are agi bonuses), so you might as well just slam crit in every socket as the agi gets you very little unless you care about defensive value... in which case you're not gemming crit.

EDIT: Here's a quote that describes it better



TL;DR matching socket bonuses is pointless really unless you NEED expertise or hit as crit always is more damage than agi, and mastery is always more survivability than agi, making matching the agi really kinda meh.

what if I tell you ... that he's wrong?

*Morpheus voice*

[britishbubba]

what if I tell you ... that he's wrong?

*Morpheus voice*

and your reasons for him being wrong would be?

[Balir]

Reading these comments, I wonder what weird gear combo I have that had Amr have me at a higher haste cap (8k ish) AND having my crit go Up from the pure crit build on the site.
It does feel way better though.

[Deleted]

I am currently running with ~8000 haste (never above), and then crit = mastery. I do have rather high ilvl though, so my crit chance is high (50%+) and mastery is at 20% (these are all buffed). I could probably survive with higher crit, but i seem to have a near 100% uptime on elusive brew at (i think its 54-55%). Therefore mastery seems like the obvious choice. Now the reason i love having haste at 8000:

Panic situations! Spamming some Expel Harm for some massive self healing if you're in a taugh spot feels good! (maybe even use a Healing Sphere, if its bad)
Great uptime on shuffle, allowing for more purifying = less damage taken overall.

With that amount of haste the only "issue" is keeping up Tiger Palm and with that Power Guard, which is quiet essential aswell, but i guess thats a first world problem.

PS. Siegecrafter HC hits like a truck