3-4 raid days alienating good players with less time.

[Deleted]

2 raid days would be fine for instances with fewer bosses, but there are way too many bosses at the moment to get any decent progress on a 2 day schedule.

My guild raided 9 hours a week and it took us till the 9th of January to kill garrosh heroic.

[Revi]

Hm, never seen this to be a problem. I play on a VERY small server, and the few raiding guilds there are all very flexible. They might raid 3 nights a week, but if you can consistently show up for 2 and you're a good players, you'll have no problems finding a guild.

As a 25-man guild on such a small server, our roster is in a constant state of flux, so we have lots of people who can't commit to 100% attendance and simply keep a larger roster so raids will be filled.

If you don't want to start a "2-nights a week" guild yourself, and you aren't willing to transfer server to find some those that exist, your best bet is 25-man guilds in worst case as a "reserve" and prove yourself from there.

But yeah, 2 nights a week guaranteed spot and good heroic progression isn't going to happen unless you put in the work to create such a guild. You seem confident that raiders with this need is abundant so it really shouldn't be a problem.

[Airwaves]

Heroics guilds require 3 days minimum to stay ahead till everything is on farm, the old guild I was a raid leader (guild leader for quite sometime) of we required a minimum of 5 at the start of a raid teir. Anything less and you would have been useless to us. This is how most hardcore raid guilds run. That is just how it works, if you can't dedicate that then stick to casual guilds.

Also in 5 years I raided this hardcore we were NEVER short on people wanting to join. I managed people for my job so passing that onto raiding wasn't hard, you fuck up or didn't turn up one to many times and I didn't think twice about kicking you.

Sounds like hardcore raiding isn't for someone like the OP.

[Durandro]

Part time Raiders are annoying to those who Raid 'full time'. When some people show up every time it gets a bit vexing when some nights there just aren't enough people showing up to even raid, or the raid composition is awful, people get upset and fed up. Especially when said people only ever seem to show up for the easy 'farm nights' and take loot that people who are doing the progression nights need, or only show up on progression nights and still expect to raid despite not having the gear for it.

Its better to find a casual guild that's content not pushing hard on progression. There's a reason most guilds raid 3 or 4 times a week - it takes a lot of time to push through long raids like SoO, even without wipes or breaks.

[Airwaves]

Part time Raiders are annoying to those who Raid 'full time'. When some people show up every time it gets a bit vexing when some nights there just aren't enough people showing up to even raid, or the raid composition is awful, people get upset and fed up. Especially when said people only ever seem to show up for the easy 'farm nights' and take loot that people who are doing the progression nights need, or only show up on progression nights and still expect to raid despite not having the gear for it.

Its better to find a casual guild that's content not pushing hard on progression. There's a reason most guilds raid 3 or 4 times a week - it takes a lot of time to push through long raids like SoO, even without wipes or breaks.

... Why would you give loot to the people who would only come to farm night? That is just terrible raid management.

[wych]

Part time Raiders are annoying to those who Raid 'full time'. When some people show up every time it gets a bit vexing when some nights there just aren't enough people showing up to even raid, or the raid composition is awful, people get upset and fed up. Especially when said people only ever seem to show up for the easy 'farm nights' and take loot that people who are doing the progression nights need, or only show up on progression nights and still expect to raid despite not having the gear for it.

Its better to find a casual guild that's content not pushing hard on progression. There's a reason most guilds raid 3 or 4 times a week - it takes a lot of time to push through long raids like SoO, even without wipes or breaks.

Sounds like your guild has shit leadership if they're giving the loot to people who hardly show up.

[Halicia]

A guild with a strict roster of 25 people that kills 12~ bosses a week during its raid schedule will get geared 4x as fast as a guild with a more casual attendance policy and rotating roster of 50 people that only kills 6~ bosses a week due to fewer days/hours.

If your goal is progression raiding and server/region/world standings... SPEED MATTERS.

If its not your goal, then there's plenty of more casual guilds out there... but keep in mind most players with a mindset towards individual excellence are drawn to competitive guilds where that behavior is the norm, not the exception.

[Txiv]

You could start your own guild, find like minded people who only want to raid 2 nights a week and extend your lockout twice a month. That way you get 4 raid days per lockout over 2 weeks.

The system provides tools for those willing to use them. But you are an outlier and need to recognize that.

[Deleted]

Many hc guilds have secondary and tertiary teams who raid fewer days than their main team, join one of those if you can't raid 4 days.

[LeperHerring]

Proper Progress requires 3-4 days. Accepted. But would it not be better to have 3 really good 2-day raiders to juggle than 2 lesser capable 3-4 day raiders?

No, absolutely not. The number one concern when it comes to raiders is consistency. The basic requirement to work on hard content is that you can learn and iterate over and over. If the team is changing significantly every raid, you go backwards in progress.

[Deleted]

No, absolutely not. The number one concern when it comes to raiders is consistency. The basic requirement to work on hard content is that you can learn and iterate over and over. If the team is changing significantly every raid, you go backwards in progress.

This is often one of those things that HC raiders fail to understand. Casual guilds rotate based on attendance, their goal is to give everyone equal chance to raid, so they often pick the people who have lowest attendance (it's "their turn" to raid). This leads to much slower progression, but doesn't necessarily mean that players are "bad players" - they just don't have the consistency a 4-nights a week/static team guild would have.

It's also one of the biggest frustrations of raiding in a casual guild. You have to keep re-learning the fights because classes/players change all the time. Quite challenging, actually.

[NewOrleansTrolley]

Maybe you're just getting older? Sometimes you have to realize you can't play like you once did. Adapt or quit.

[Deleted]

Most high end guilds want to raid with the same people on a specific boss. Like Garrosh Heroic took us 6 raid days or something spread accross 2 weeks, and if we had to swap people every 2 days we'd have to re-learn certain aspect every single time. It's simply not efficient. And as a top 100 world guild, 3 days/week really is the absolutely minimum to be able to stay competitive as a guild.

[LeperHerring]

This is often one of those things that HC raiders fail to understand. Casual guilds rotate based on attendance, their goal is to give everyone equal chance to raid, so they often pick the people who have lowest attendance (it's "their turn" to raid).

HC raiders understand that perfectly well. But that's not what OP wants. He stated he's currently in 14/14 HC 3-day guild and simply wants the same kind of proper progress but in 2 days.

And it's not really about "casuals". I consider 2-3 day guilds casual raiding guilds. What you do in those days is what counts. You can have lax skill and attendance requirements, rotating in people with lowest attendance, and end up not killing anything in HC. Or you can have strict skill and attendance requirements and clear HC.

[Deleted]

HC raiders understand that perfectly well. But that's not what OP wants. He stated he's currently in 14/14 HC 3-day guild and simply wants the same kind of proper progress but in 2 days.

This is what OP actually said:

What makes you think im talking about clearing HC here? Why are you making that assumption? Im talking raiding guilds in general. Not just your top 5%. I even said in my original post, that i fully accept the fact that wow requires 3-4 days of raiding to do good Progress, but EVERY guild - nomatter what skill level thinks they need the 3-4 days as minimum attendance. Yeah there a few and far between exceptions, but in general, everybody making any kind og a guild wants the 3+ days. Thats what im challenging.

[LeperHerring]

Maybe you're just getting older? Sometimes you have to realize you can't play like you once did. Adapt or quit.

This is correct, except it's not age (there are older players that raid hardcore and younger ones that cannot commit to schedules). It's about life situations. If you can't raid 3 days anymore, then you can't be in a 3-day guilds. You could start a two day guild, or join a guild with less strict requirements (and as a result most likely less progress).

- - - Updated - - -

This is what OP actually said:

Then he makes no sense. There are plenty of guilds that let you raid 2 days. What there aren't are guilds that let you raid 2 days out of 3+ *and* have good progress.

[Notdev]

We do 2 days
11/14H with Seigecrafter at 40%.

[Reavyn]

I'm surprised by this thread. I know quite a few guilds on my server who raid seriously with a static team, but only ~2 nights a week. Some of them have simply split into two teams, where each team plans their raids according to the availability of said team. So, two teams, each raiding twice a week. Barring the real hardcore raiding guilds, they seem to have a lot of succes progression-wise and virtually no drama that I know of. They definately do a lot better then most casual raiding guilds who raid four times a week.

The thing is, guilds are created for specific types of players. Some cater to casuals, some to hardcore progression raiders and others who are in between the two; those who want to raid seriously but can't devote 3-4 or more nights a week to the game. As such, these guilds will frown upon players who don't meet their standards or lack thereof. A casual player has no place in a hardcore guild as much as a hardcore player has no place being in a casual guild.

None of those guilds are 'wrong'. Actually, I'd sooner say they're all correct in their way of thinking. There's simply no way to cater to all types of players and have a succesful guild unless you run a very large guild with something akin to 'sub-guilds'. In which case, you might as well just make seperate guilds to begin with.

[Renisis86]

I used to raid in a 2 day 25 man heroic guild. They downed heroic Garrosh 2 or 3 weeks ago. So heroic raiding is doable on a 2 day schedule. But you do make some sacrifices. One thing that is currently a trend for casual raiding guilds (<2 days) Is to clear any bosses you don't really need loot from on normal in order to get to your progression boss sooner, also carrying over lockouts makes 2 day raiding guilds more viable for progression. No your not going to be pushing progression with the big 3-5 days a week guilds but downing bosses is downing bosses.

Other thing is with 10 man raiding there ends up being teams who join lvl 25 guilds for the perks. This ends up creating many guilds with multiple teams. So you can't just look at guilds but look at teams within a guild for a 2 day raiding experience. Finding competitive 2 day raiding guilds can be tough. I really think Blizz needs to create a better Guild recruitment tool out side of the game where you can sort by experience, schedule, ect.

Another side note if you are looking for odd times look at oceanic realms or Aussie guilds. 6pm Monday night in Sydney is 1am Monday morning PST.

[NickCageFanatic]

My guild is 6/14 H with 2 nights 3 hours each night raiding...sooooooooo yeah..."Proper Progress" not sure the meaning of that exactly. We aren't clearing 14/14H within the first 2-3 months of SoO but hey we're going our own pace and we're having fun.