I can't stand MMOs because of the filler content!

[May90]

I have always wondered why, no matter what MMOs I tried, I couldn't play them for more than 30 minutes in a row without getting bored. I thought it was because of the grindy quests like "Kill 10 spiders". But today, after playing Guild Wars 2 for 20 minutes (my favorite MMO ATM) and almost falling asleep, I realized the fundamental difference between MMO and single player. I will call it "filler content".

What is "filler content"? It is the content developers put into a game with sole purpose to make it longer. Quest "Kill 10 spiders" is a perfect example: there is no reason to make a player kill more than 1 spider because it is exactly the same experience every time. But without such quests, say, WoW's leveling will become 10 times shorter or so. To grab more money, developers need to make people stay in the game for longer time, so they add a lot of filler content at all stages of a game. "Dailies" that you sometimes need to do for 2 months to get something, trash mobs in dungeons and raids that have no function other than to make them last longer, fishing that is 3000 times doing the same thing - these all are perfect examples of filler content.

Now, what is the difference between single player and MMO RPGs? In single player games there is always some filler content, but it is usually a minority of a game, or, at least, not a very large part of it. For example, in Dragon Age: Origins of course there are some grindy quests like "collect 12 corpse galls and bring them to Chantry Board". But the majority of the quests are related to the main story or are side quests with really some lore behind them (like a task to find a hunter who has gone missing in the wilds, and he proves to have become a werewolf). Doing these quests, I feel being a part of the world, I feel doing something that actually matters, I am rescuing this very werewolf, not some abstract werewolf who has been rescued by millions of levelers already.
In MMO RPGs, however, the vast majority of content is filler content. "Killing 10 spiders", I do not really feel doing anything meaningful lore-wise, I just grind levels. There are some meaningful quests, of course, such as the Sylvanas' quest line in Silverpine Forest, but they usually are just a tiny bit of the whole process of one long grind. Even SWTOR, with its "story-based" leveling, still mostly consists of stupid grindy quests, and they kill for me all the desire to follow the main story.

So, I have said nothing new here, you all guys are familiar with that difference. But, I wonder, am I the only one for whom this difference is so huge that I just cannot stand MMOs at all? Every time I play (or, more accurately, try to play again) a game like WoW (the only MMO in my life in which he filler content doesn't kill the game for me completely since there are also quite a few humorous quests), SWTOR or Guild Wars, I just cannot help but think along the lines, "If I played Mass Effect or Deus Ex at the moment, I would really do something meaningful in the virtual world, while here I feel that I'm wasting my time solely for purpose of leveling, gear grind, etc.". Is anyone of you guys the same?

I am just curious guys, so please leave "OMG NOOB go do raiding" or "Tell me something I don't know" remarks aside.

[mistahwilshire]

I mean you're basically coming to an MMO website and asking if you're the only one that doesn't like something that every single MMO does.

I'm just not sure what your goal is here. To me it sounds like it's just not really the genre for you.

[Eace]

Everything in games is filler content. Hell, everything in life is filler content. All we need to do is pay taxes and die.

[Knough]

If you're suited to MMOs you like killing twelve spiders, if you see the core of the game (killing) as boring, what else do you expect?
Even with spiders you can make tactics and efficient routes and avoid things and enjoy the class.

[Veceva]

Single player games are more condensed because you don't have to keep players busy for months or years at a time. Of course there's filler content, otherwise everyone would be max level with the best gear after a few days and they'd be bored of it. MMOs and single player RPGs are designed to do different things, you can't compare them like that.

Single player RPGs (can) have higher quality content perhaps, but that's because they only last what, 20-30 hours? Try making thousands of hours of unique, interesting content for an MMO. Sure it'd be great, but it can't be done efficiently. MMOs aren't for you if you don't like collecting metric shit tons of bear asses and spider eyes; stick to single player games.

[schwank05]

Everything in games is filler content. Hell, everything in life is filler content. All we need to do is pay taxes and die.

Pretty much this, Now I agree on the questing stuff. As I have and always will hate questing and leveling, I play MMO's for Dungeons and raids, only reason I dont play GW2 is because no raids or new dungeons. So I blow through leveling as fast a possible not paying attention to lore or quest's (If I want to learn more i read a book) Just to get to end game and raid with friends. In games with slow leveling (WOW MOP) I lose interest very quickly as i hate the leveling process.

[DeadmanWalking]

So you have a short attention span and its some how the MMO's fault for giving people things to keep them busy? Go play a Moba and keep your chocolate out of my peanut butter.

[Puupi]

Football as a game is filler content. You kick the ball once and you are done, right?

PS. I wonder how your sex life is, not that it's any of my business, but just wondering....

[Fencers]

In general, MMOs are not well designed video games. They tend to have a lot of design contradictions or at best, poor design practices.

[Kelimbror]

I love how the OP is an immediate contradiction. I dislike MMO's because they have filler content...well...single player games have filler content too, but it's totally not a lot so it's ok. /facepalm If that's how you define filler content, then you need to just watch a movie which gives you a story up front without requiring you to complete any tasks along the way. Or is microwaving some popcorn, grabbing a soda, and clicking the remote also filler content? Maybe we can invent a device that streams media into your brain 24/7 requiring no voluntary actions on your part.

[May90]

Everything in games is filler content. Hell, everything in life is filler content. All we need to do is pay taxes and die.

Well, there are some things we like doing and some things we don't like. Things we like doing are not filler content by definition, there is nothing to fill if we already enjoy them. Things that exist "just because", however, are like that.

If you're suited to MMOs you like killing twelve spiders

I wonder, are there actually players who enjoy it? From what I've gathered from various forums, people tend to usually be done with leveling as quickly as possible and get to the "real content", so it's not like this design suits players' desires the best...

Single player RPGs (can) have higher quality content perhaps, but that's because they only last what, 20-30 hours? Try making thousands of hours of unique, interesting content for an MMO. Sure it'd be great, but it can't be done efficiently. MMOs aren't for you if you don't like collecting metric shit tons of bear asses and spider eyes; stick to single player games.

Well, there are quite long games: Mass Effect trilogy with all DLCs takes me usually about 160 hours to complete, Dragon Age 1+2+all DLCs takes something around 150 hours... But, yes, you are right, in MMOs people often have hundreds of days /played, and it is impossible to fill so much time with high quality content. I must be one of those people who prefer having 5 hours of awesome content to having 5000 hours of monotonous grinding with occasional meaningful experience. I just wonder how many such people are here, on the MMO forums.

Football as a game is filler content. You kick the ball once and you are done, right?

PS. I wonder how your sex life is, not that it's any of my business, but just wondering....

Actually, I don't like football at all.

As for sex life... Well, let me just close this... ugh... site...

[Skadovsk]

Please don't mention RPG and Gross Effect or Dragon Age in the same sentence.
Arn't those games written by some fat bitch that actuafuckingly said she wishes games had a "fast forward" for the gameplay so you could continue watching cutscenes and reading story?

Some of us don't like our fun handed over from the get go, it makes it a forgettable experience or a cheap one, we like to work on our fun or at least pretend we do, its more like a "Fun Investment" its more rewarding and long lasting.

It's also not RPG unique, its even more common on certain RTS or Simulation games like Wargame, SH4 Typhoon and so on, like for example, nothing beats you moving a Spetsnaz unit on foot across a large wargame map, which can take over 10min, making sure its not spotted, scouting ahead when recon available in the region and inserting them behind enemy lines and have it take out an entire IADS on its own, 120point unit taking out all sort of 80plus defensless units left and right in the blink of an eye, allowing your air to go through with nothing to stop it.

Yeah filler is awesome, I don't want to finish my game in 6 hours to never replay again.
or watch over 100 hours of cutscenes and NPCs talk...

[MurphyLaw]

Seems odd to me that no one's mentioned how easy / fast Blizzard has made it to get to max level and jump right into fun heroic endgame PVE or ranked PvP.......the good stuff. You can now level via PvP, LFD, or questing if you get bored of one or the other so mad props to Blizzard on that front.

We will no longer need to grind professions (removed combat benefits) in WoD so they've pretty much made it easy as pie to skip all the spider killing and go right to the fun stuff. Maybe wow is the game for you OP, every expansion seems keen on less filler content and more jump-right-in-the-waters-fine go go action.

[Valeron]

In general, MMOs are not well designed video games. They tend to have a lot of design contradictions or at best, poor design practices.

If it wasn't for the social aspect and the community of mmos (even just playing a world with other people around) I would never touch an mmo again. I find them to be terrible games for the most part.

[ComputerNerd]

It is not filler content, but content that does not appeal to you personally.
It seems that any content that isn't catering solely to your personal whims isn't good enough.
It isn't your game, and therefore not built around your personal expectations.

Some people enjoy questing, some people do not.
You are one of the latter.

[Skadovsk]

Seems odd to me that no one's mentioned how easy / fast Blizzard has made it to get to max level and jump right into fun heroic endgame PVE or ranked PvP.......the good stuff. You can now level via PvP, LFD, or questing if you get bored of one or the other so mad props to Blizzard on that front.

We will no longer need to grind professions (removed combat benefits) in WoD so they've pretty much made it easy as pie to skip all the spider killing and go right to the fun stuff. Maybe wow is the game for you OP, every expansion seems keen on less filler content and more jump-right-in-the-waters-fine go go action.

That's only true for alts or after the expac release is over, leveling when a expac just released is still somewhat "not easy" leveling to cap is just the start for a serious PvPer and raider, knowing how when and how much to gear, knowing were the upgrades drop, and the fastest way to get them, opening hidden quest chains, or getting special items when there is very little guides out there and a lot of competition is very time consuming and dosn't really end until the tier end boss is dead.

Sometimes raiders and PvPers need to level more than 1 character to remain competitive for their team or guild and the character needs to be arena/raid ready ASAP, I've seen people level 4 characters in the first week of MoP just to help their guild tank/heal with specific classes just in case it was needed.

So its one of those things that gets as hard as you like.

and grinding professions was never any trouble for people that have a brain and exploit the AH and have tons of money to waste at the start of an expac anyways.

[Shockeye]

Single player games are more condensed because you don't have to keep players busy for months or years at a time. Of course there's filler content, otherwise everyone would be max level with the best gear after a few days and they'd be bored of it. MMOs and single player RPGs are designed to do different things, you can't compare them like that.

Single player RPGs (can) have higher quality content perhaps, but that's because they only last what, 20-30 hours? Try making thousands of hours of unique, interesting content for an MMO. Sure it'd be great, but it can't be done efficiently. MMOs aren't for you if you don't like collecting metric shit tons of bear asses and spider eyes; stick to single player games.

This hit the nail on the head so to speak.
MMOs are multi-player games and most people going to the forest to kill boars and collect bear asses are probably talking with friends and/or guild mates while they go about doing filler content. It's not the hoof collecting that inspires people to play, but the promise of reaching end-game content and the fun of social chatter while doing so that keeps people engaged.

In single player games, a tighter story can be told as the content is finite, in that there is a real end point and a structured beginning and middle and all of that (if we're just talking RPGs).
I mean, I'd love to see an MMO where the content is more like a single player RPG in terms of the world changing and reacting, to complex story content and minimal filler, but until we can have AI crafting a story and content 24/7, this just won't happen in a convincing way. I think there are MMOs that are more story driven, like Secret World for instance, which I hear is very good, maybe check that one out?

[Belloc]

What is "filler content"? It is the content developers put into a game with sole purpose to make it longer.

I need to point this out right now: By that definition, every single expansion has been "filler content." Indeed, ALL MMO content is filler content, because MMOs aren't designed to have an end. Therefore, every little bit of content in an MMO is designed with the sole purpose of making the game last longer.

If you don't like filler content, then I have no clue whatsoever why you play MMOs. Personally, WoW is hopefully going to be my last MMO because, frankly, MMOs are exactly as you described -- filler content. It never ends and it just keeps you playing. It gets old, so don't even bother playing it to begin with.

[Valeron]

I need to point this out right now: By that definition, every single expansion has been "filler content." Indeed, ALL MMO content is filler content, because MMOs aren't designed to have an end. Therefore, every little bit of content in an MMO is designed with the sole purpose of making the game last longer.

If you don't like filler content, then I have no clue whatsoever why you play MMOs. Personally, WoW is hopefully going to be my last MMO because, frankly, MMOs are exactly as you described -- filler content. It never ends and it just keeps you playing. It gets old, so don't even bother playing it to begin with.

This is the design of theme park mmos for sure. Make an open ended mmo that allows players to make their own stories, the players make the changes in the world, that is where mmos should go. MMOs that are designed to have the developers guide everything, all of the content, well then you get the problem of "filler content".

[DeadmanWalking]

I have heard people say there just isn't enough content in an MMO to keep them busy, now we have someone who says that anything besides kicking open chests and dropping bosses is too much. *face palm*