1. #1

    Help with Feral trinkets!

    Hey guys!

    First of all i must apologise if there is thread where these kind of questions for specs should be asked. But i want this to be more visible so i'm just creating new thread.

    Ok so here is the deal. I'm balance druid who is now rolling into feral druid after we have cleared the tier on heroic. I'm really comfortable with the feral playstyle and i consider myself as fairly good feral. This is where the trinkets part comes in. I currently have heroic Haromn's talisman and heroic Ticking ebon detonator as well as normal Rune of re-origination. I have been playing with the TED and RoRo lately with my gear optimized to have 1:1:1 stats for the rune. However just today i picked up the Haromn's talisman i just thought that "oh hey, this one is supposed to be more consistent damage increase than TED so i'll just use this one". But then i started thinking that which combination of the trinkets is actually best.. I guess i would Sim my character but i don't know if it's possible to do so without regemming and reforging my gear to the normal way without RoRo.

    TL;DR: What trinkets to use: hc TED, hc Haromn's, normal RoRo? And if it's not possible to give certain answer to this is there at least a way to sim my character with the heroic trinkets and normal gemming/reforging even though my character's gear is optimized to abuse the RoRo at the moment.

  2. #2
    This can be easily simmed in catus, I'll gladly run a few for you in the morning when I wake up, But my hunch says TeD + RoRo will give you best results on raw single target fights, especially those where you have a long execute time. Whereas harroms for me seems to pull ahead in any situation where there is cleave.

    Could go with the no roro setup, but I think it would be very dependant on itemization for it to be competitive, is there any chance you could link your armoury for me ?

    But yeh, can both run quick comparisons in Catus, as well as some more fleshed out sims for a variety of situations.

    Edit: Assuming you are Feralica @ frostmane EU, you're going to want to roll with harroms, it's actually simming higher in patchwerk scenarios for you than TeD, and the non roro combination is a substantial dps loss in your current gear. Given the ease of use of harroms compared to TeD, coupled with it actually simming higher, it's a win win situation for you right now and you'll likely see much improved results compared to TeD, because of said ease of use... Barring fights like garrosh where the extreme amount of time sub 25% improves TeD's value by a fair amount.

    Still going to plug catus here though, one of the most useful tools you will come across, can be found at http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4574
    Last edited by Zanzha; 2014-04-24 at 01:47 AM.

  3. #3
    I'm pretty RoRo is only optimal if it's Heroic Thunderforge because of the increased proc rate, but I'm not sure

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooninites View Post
    I'm pretty RoRo is only optimal if it's Heroic Thunderforge because of the increased proc rate, but I'm not sure
    Heroic and Heroic TF Rune are BIS. Depending on your gear/ the amount of secondary stats TF Rune may pull ahead. If Roro does not fall under those two situations Heroic WF SoO trinkets are best.

    As far as Seige trinkets-depends on what you're doing. AoC is good for progression, otherwise TED/Harmon will generally pull ahead. Swap them out depending on the encounter, really.

  5. #5
    mmhm, this is what confused me when I ran the sims, was just how far behind the double seige trinket was to the normal roro, much larger than expected, really need to look over it and see if i made a mistake somewhere was getting results around 380kish with the 530 rune there and as low as 250 with the double hc trinkets, something feels off considering how low ilvl that rune is :/

  6. #6
    Thank you so much for the help Zanzha! I obviously used Catus to sort out my rune gemmings and stuff but i haven't really looked at it for other stuff yet. Could it be those weird gems affecting the sim of the double hc trinkets?

    Edit: I started messing around with the Catus simulations as well now with the help of some guides and i'm getting same kind of results as you did. Do you think it's possible that there are some mistakes in the simulations or is the Rune just that much better?
    Last edited by Feralica; 2014-04-24 at 09:28 AM.

  7. #7
    No, that wouldn't be it, I made sure to generate a new set of stat weights and even messed around with a few different reforging / gemming profiles. My guess would be to say either the 530 rune is that much of an upgrade (which is bizarre, when I first got a HC rune around 565 ilvl or so it was only a 15-20k increase) My guess would be to say that it's worthwhile to regem reforge, and try the two non roro trinkets out first hand in a flex or similar.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanzha View Post
    mmhm, this is what confused me when I ran the sims, was just how far behind the double seige trinket was to the normal roro, much larger than expected, really need to look over it and see if i made a mistake somewhere was getting results around 380kish with the 530 rune there and as low as 250 with the double hc trinkets, something feels off considering how low ilvl that rune is :/
    530 Rune sims roughly Equal with a 580 AoC for my character. But in saying that a 567 TED or Haromms are both stronger than a 580 AoC.

  9. #9
    Yeh, I remember responding to your post around it, and as you say, considering that AoC is the weakest trinket for feral, the anomaly seems even more bizarre, I'll have to look into it and run a few more sims

    Edit, nevermind, I found it... for some reason, mastery berserk and rip extensions were disabled for some unkown reason.... oops

    Rough values here, Bear in mind there is room for a fair amount of error here... However these are much closer to what I had expected

    Roro + TeD = 384.6k
    Roro + Harroms = 385.2k
    TeD + Harroms = 388.4k <- mastery gems / reforges
    TeD + Harroms = 387.8K <- Agi gemming focus

    Here are the Stat weights I used when importing into the catus reforger for the agility focus, despite coming out slightly under the mastery build, as soon as you enter any kind of cleave scenario it will pull ahead, and there are very few raw single target fights in siege

    Agility: 10.66
    Weapon Damage: 6.84
    Hit: 6.16
    Expertise: 6.02
    Mastery: 5.00
    Critical Strike: 4.87
    Haste: 3.88
    Strength: 3.76
    Attack Power: 3.55

    (side note, mmo is acting really weird for me, getting a lot of error 520's at the moment ? )
    Last edited by Zanzha; 2014-04-24 at 01:59 PM.

  10. #10
    AoC does have the benefit of helping feral become easier by allowing TF to always be there for rip refresh (good for new feral players) but its not strange that even a normal Haromm or TeD beats it with or without rune, it just sucks donkey balls at snapshotting, like I'm not sure catus sims this trinket with real enough scenarios, half the time it just won't proc on execute or will proc late on pull or desync from berserk after 1st proc.
    On the other hand, TeD/RoRo will give you a massive boost on opener and execute but it will be rare to ever get a double proc with higher than 15 stacks (which is higher proc vs a equivalent ilvl haromm) but the pure mastery stat does not compete with Haromm's multistrike proc on its own, which means you need to make TeD work, while Haromm's is somewhat half automatic.
    Missing a TeD proc or being slow will hurt you, but doing the same with haromm's will hurt way less.
    TeD also requires advanced opener, something that is hard on some fights and annoying for some people.
    (it can also proc from random shit and makes you want to kill things irl)

    So Haromm's is the safe way that will always work, TeD is the I want to get lucky-never blink fun trinket that will make you auto rank if used right and cry if used incorrectly, but both should be equal at the end of the day.
    Last edited by Skadovsk; 2014-04-24 at 01:59 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Skadovsk View Post
    AoC does have the benefit of helping feral become easier by allowing TF to always be there for rip refresh.
    AoC is complete aids. You can't even play Feral properly because you're just swimming in infinite amounts of energy. Not to mention that the 2 minute CD on berserk doesn't actually help for a lot of fights.

  12. #12
    Thank you so much for the help Zanzha! Not only with running the simulations but this also encouraged me to study Catus more than what i had before. I'm using the double hc trinkets now but i will for sure farm that ToT hc until i get the 'real' Rune!

  13. #13
    For absolute best in slot feral trinkets, the best are Sha of Pride's Assurance of Consequence and Heroic (Thunderforged) rune of reorigination. Provided you dont have RoRO, the next best is haromm's. Siegecrafter's TeD looks great on paper, but in actual practice is extremely difficult to use to full advantage when you're snapshotting your bleeds. No other trinkets really compare beyond that.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by GibbyG1100 View Post
    For absolute best in slot feral trinkets, the best are Sha of Pride's Assurance of Consequence and Heroic (Thunderforged) rune of reorigination. Provided you dont have RoRO, the next best is haromm's. Siegecrafter's TeD looks great on paper, but in actual practice is extremely difficult to use to full advantage when you're snapshotting your bleeds. No other trinkets really compare beyond that.
    AoC is the worst SoO trinket so you're just straight up wrong on that part. Haromms and TED are pretty much equal however a better player will be able to take advantage of TED more whereas Haromms is more of a "safe" option, not to mention it is generally better for AoE.

  15. #15
    What glurp said, sorry to say it but you have been terribley misinformed, AoC really only has any value in an AoE scenario where you are not using a rune. the tigers fury lower cd for snapshotting cannot compare anywhere near the proccs of the other trinkets, and the AoC procc itself is incredibly useless, very long procc, and not that often, feral needs short duration proccs as often as possible to maintain high strength bleeds for as much of the fight as possible.

    @Feralica, no problem, if you have any other questions I'll be happy to try and answer them as best I can

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