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  1. #1

    Penance used offensivly only?

    So with the proposed change to Penance:

    Penance now also refunds 1.1% of the Priest’s maximum mana each time it deals damage.

    How does that change our rotation? Make targetoftarget macro and only use it offensivly, even though it doesnt affect atonement anymore (as far as memory goes they are removing penance of the atonement healing)

    Just gonna feel weird having one of our signature spells not used for healing. And a channeling one at that.

  2. #2
    You will use penance as a targeted heal on an ally and you can use it offensively to regain mana. Just no attonement anymore with penance.

  3. #3
    Yes I know, but why use it for healing at all if it will be our main source of mana income? I dont see the thought behind the design

  4. #4
    It will not be the main source of mana income. It is just a way to use phases of lower damage intake to actively regain some mana instead of just standing around.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Sangomah View Post
    Yes I know, but why use it for healing at all if it will be our main source of mana income? I dont see the thought behind the design
    Because it will probably remain the highest single target throughput heal?

  6. #6
    I always thought atonement penance was a bit dumb and borderline double dippy. Prefer to atone and reserve penance for actual healing.

    Or in the case of WoD, can use it for moar healz or to DPS and regen mana. Seems like a good niche.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Carmion View Post
    It will not be the main source of mana income. It is just a way to use phases of lower damage intake to actively regain some mana instead of just standing around.
    With Rapture gone it does seem to be the main source of mana income unless I'm missing something.

    In regards to the OP, Penenace is losing atonement, so I think it will be more of an active decision of when you can use Penance to regain mana/ need to and when you want to use it for heal throughput

  8. #8
    Well you have to take mindbender to regain mana in wod and it is only 0.75% not 1.75% as it is now. There is no good mana regen tool except for penenance, so to me it looks like it will be mandatory to use it to regain mana, at least until you get decent enough regen.

    Say what you will about Blizz saying mana regen will go higher, I still think you will have to help out

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    I always thought atonement penance was a bit dumb and borderline double dippy. Prefer to atone and reserve penance for actual healing.

    Or in the case of WoD, can use it for moar healz or to DPS and regen mana. Seems like a good niche.
    Agreed. Currently Penance is worth more as an Atonement component than as a direct heal, but I agree that such a system is, essentially, broken. Atonement should not be the primary source of healing, but something to do in low damage phases, and that's where Penance as an offensive mana regen tool comes in, to build up more mana or top yourself off for a phase of intensified healing needs.

    It's a vastly better design overall.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sangomah View Post
    Yes I know, but why use it for healing at all if it will be our main source of mana income? I dont see the thought behind the design
    For throughput - is grace still in WoD? Penance is a nice way to stack that if it is. Also consider the state of priests right now; as disc I was running with around 8k spirit and as holy I'm running with about 18k (10 man raider.) See the issue? I also don't think it will hurt disc to have to think a little bit about what they're doing rather than just hitting the easy button and atonement healing all the time. Blizz has said they want to make healers think again, and this is a good start if you ask me.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Fefina View Post
    For throughput - is grace still in WoD? Penance is a nice way to stack that if it is. Also consider the state of priests right now; as disc I was running with around 8k spirit and as holy I'm running with about 18k (10 man raider.) See the issue? I also don't think it will hurt disc to have to think a little bit about what they're doing rather than just hitting the easy button and atonement healing all the time. Blizz has said they want to make healers think again, and this is a good start if you ask me.
    Grace will apparently be a passive that increase the healing done by Discipline.

  12. #12
    That's a bit disappointing. With the redesign it seems that Grace would be something you'd want to track and apply, as it'd make sense to do so. But being a passive makes sense, just not as interesting a feature.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Shockeye View Post
    That's a bit disappointing. With the redesign it seems that Grace would be something you'd want to track and apply, as it'd make sense to do so. But being a passive makes sense, just not as interesting a feature.
    A lot of what currently makes Discipline interesting - Rapture tracking, LMG tracking and, to a much lesser extent, Grace are being streamlined and hopefully in order to make the actual act of healing the engaging part of gameplay instead of proc watching.

  14. #14
    I am not sure what is hard to understand. It really is the same as any of the other healing specs mana regen, except we get to keep it as a heal as well and ours does damage.

    1. Not many people to heal - use your mana regen ability. For druids, they cast ( 2 secs) innervate and then wait 8 seconds. For disc, we target the boss and cast penance.

    The fact that our mana regen ability has uses outside of mana regen is a good thing, it reduces button bloat.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    I am not sure what is hard to understand. It really is the same as any of the other healing specs mana regen, except we get to keep it as a heal as well and ours does damage.

    1. Not many people to heal - use your mana regen ability. For druids, they cast ( 2 secs) innervate and then wait 8 seconds. For disc, we target the boss and cast penance.

    The fact that our mana regen ability has uses outside of mana regen is a good thing, it reduces button bloat.
    I know, I think people are having a hard time adjusting to the changes. It's really not a big deal. We used penance before it had anything to do with atonement and no one complained then, and you could use it offensively then too. Now, instead of a smart heal you get some mana back.

    The only thing I see as a potential problem is that people with probably stop bothering with it offensively at a certain gear level which is not a huge problem.

    It'll be fine!

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimeez View Post
    A lot of what currently makes Discipline interesting - Rapture tracking, LMG tracking and, to a much lesser extent, Grace are being streamlined and hopefully in order to make the actual act of healing the engaging part of gameplay instead of proc watching.
    And that's happening across the board more or less. But Grace isn't so much a proc as a defensive device, which fits the concept of the Disc Priest very well. It's not a huge deal, I'm just a bit surprised is all.

    What Azrile said on Penance is accurate. My main is a Resto Shaman and we're getting Telluric Currents back, using Lightning Bolt to regen mana, so it's an extra button. The dual-function Penance that Disc has is very nice in reducing button bloat, something of which I'm envious

  17. #17
    Yup, it is pretty nice. There is always the chance that it will be used incorrectly (which Shaman won't have to deal with) but the act of making the decision should make things more interesting. And yeah, Grace isn't really a proc but in an environment where steady and prolonged healing matters it would be one more thing to micromanage.

  18. #18
    Scarab Lord foxHeart's Avatar
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    Much rather have Holy Fire be given a cast time and grant mana than have to sacrifice Penance.
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  19. #19
    Penance isn't being sacrificed though, rather it's back where it should be. Penance being better in an Atonement rotation than as a direct heal was not, I believe, intended, but rather an unintentional side-effect of how Atonement functioned, along with having Crit stacked out the wazoo.

    Penance should be a direct heal, adding a mana regen to it on an offensive level simply keeps it in the damage use area that a lot of Disc Priests will be familiar with and gives a purposeful mana regen choice (do I heal or do I regen mana?) which again fits with the overall healing model (re)design.

  20. #20
    Scarab Lord b2121945's Avatar
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    It now gives you back 1.2% of Base Mana in 9 seconds, might as well ignore it and heal with it. Because 3.1% of Base Mana in 9 seconds was too good previously, compared to around 5% other healers get.

    So it's fine everyone, just use it defensively.

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