Which single raid size would you prefer?

[Deleted]

Either 10 or 20. Having an odd number doesn't feel right when it comes to mechanics that segregate your raid group (Spoils etc). 10 is very personal and you get a great sense of what people are doing and how they perform. 20 feels close enough to the current 25 model of larger scale raids but keeps the same even number that 10 does.

[Deleted]

25man is best, more glory, better rewards, higher dps etc. Everything is tuned for 25man, 10man is way too hard and tedious and doesn't even feel like true raiding, I want 10man gone.

[Deleted]

We suffer in guild from, too many for 10 man, not enough for 25 man, last 3 weeks I have benched 5-7 people for our raids due to too many people/not enough spots.

I kind of worked out a few years ago, what i believe the different amounts are necessary to rotate & allow for random dc & nights off and not have too many unhappy players
a 10 man guild only needs about 15 players - 3 tanks, 4 healers & 8 dps (2T, 2-3H & 5-6D raid setup)
a 15 man guild would need about 22 players - 3 tanks, 6 healers & 13 dps (2T,, 3-4H & 9-10D)
a 25 man guild would need about 39 players - 4 tanks, 10 healers & 25 dps (2-3T, 5-6H & 16-18D).

Its a lot easier to recruit maybe an extra 7 players for 15 man that it would be to recruit almost 25 people to go from 10 to 25, on the above basis, I would suggest a 20 man would need about 30 players, which doubling a roster on a lot of servers would be extremely difficult to achieve.

Also another side issue is the carrying of players, being a normal raiding guild due to being a maturer guild with a lot of real life and only really 9-12 hours of proper raiding a week to devote to it means that for us 10 man you struggle to carry 1 person, but when i was heroic progression raiding in a 25 man guild we were able to have 10 good players and 5 ok players carry 10 shit players. That is where the difference is.

I personally like the idea of 15 as you can bring more than 1 of each class, our top 2 dps early on in this tier was a husband & wife who both play rogues, whoever 1 of them always sat out in the spirit of "fairness". 15 would enable you to bring 1 of almost every class, get every single buff and increase the overall synergy, recently we have the problem of lack of ranged on certain fights due to our best DPSers all being melee and when you are working at the skill margin we do dps matters a lot.


TLR - I like 15 mans, better class synergy, can carry 1-2 average players, and only need 20-22 active players.

[Xariste]

I didn't play in Vanilla but 40 man raids just sounded like a mess. 25 is nice, manageable, and still preserves the "massive raid" feel.

[Xorious]

25man, however they should make it 4 tanks/ 6 healers / 15 DPS. I find a 25man raid with only 2 tank spots very wierd and it kind of forces the tanks into the leader role a lot of the time.

[Jiigeri]

20 or 25m. I raided 10m only from DS until I recently moved to another guild because we simply shutted our old guild down. 10m was fun in it's own way, but I personally feel it's better for alt-raid type of thing.

[clevin]

Flexible up to 30 or 35. The problem with set sizes is that you have to deal with benching people, not having enough, etc. IF you run 15s, you need 15. Have 18? 3 people can't raid with you. Have 13? Better PUG or you're not going. This isn't an issue in Mythic because it's presumed that you are a dedicated pool of hardcore folks. But leaving the other difficulties flexible is great because in the cases I mentioned above, you still go raid and everyone gets in. If you have a guild that wants really large raids you can do that... if a few people in that same guild can't show up one week, the rest still get to raid.

[OneSent]

25, hands down. TBC was the perfect raid model (minus the two 10-only raids). 10-man was the beginning of a long and treacherous slope that, in my own opinion, has had disastrous effects on raiding and the game as a whole. Homogenization on steroids, the death of entire raiding guilds and server communities.

However, the adventurist in me would love to see 40-mans become the standard again. Of all the raid sizes WoW has ever seen, none of them felt as epic or as synonymous to the word "raid" like seeing 39 other people on your screen. I'd take large-scale battles over min/max complexity any day.

I do think that making Mythic raids 20-only was a pretty good decision, overall.

[Hyve]

Personally, either 15 or 20 is perfectly fine for me, I enjoy smaller team raiding, but I think 20 Man will feel and behave very differently to 25 Man.

[Deleted]

20 should be fine.

Currently 10man. Just wish Blizzard would get a move on with EU connections if they're expecting us to recruit up.

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However, the adventurist in me would love to see 40-mans become the standard again. Of all the raid sizes WoW has ever seen, none of them felt as epic or as synonymous to the word "raid" like seeing 39 other people on your screen.

I'll take 20 good players with interesting boss designs over 20 good + 20 retards flailing spastically against a boss with only 2-3 simple abilities (because you realistically cannot manage 40 people nor expect them to pull off complex tasks in sync) anyday.

[brunnor]

15 would make me quit hands down. I'm a little pissed at 20 as is, but I'm willing to give it a chance. I prefer 25+

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a 10 man guild only needs about 15 players - 3 tanks, 4 healers & 8 dps (2T, 2-3H & 5-6D raid setup)
a 15 man guild would need about 22 players - 3 tanks, 6 healers & 13 dps (2T,, 3-4H & 9-10D)
a 25 man guild would need about 39 players - 4 tanks, 10 healers & 25 dps (2-3T, 5-6H & 16-18D).

In what world do 25man guilds have a 39 player roster? Most guilds I know, mine included, have between 30-33 on the roster. That is the number you have.

[dopefishz]

just make everything we have right now flexible. leave the difficulties in normal/heroic as they are right now and make them scale with rising/shrinking numbers in players. i hate that they add mythic in wod, because that means if i really want to raid heroic, which will become normal difficulty when 6.0 hits, i actually have to recruit a bunch of people, just to achieve the 20 players i need.

they should just make normal/heroic flexible in playersize and add a supermode for all the superguilds that want to measure their epeens, call it mythic and give it a fixed raidsize.


german and super tired, so please forgive any mistakes done.

[theostrichsays]

Personally I liked the WotLK model, 25 being the primary and number for raiding, and 10 being very pug friendly.
So 25.
20 might work out just the same though, am hoping.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

10-15. 25 is just too much for me unless I had that many awesome friends. Which I don't.

[BananaHandsB]

Anything less than 20 just kills me. For me, raiding is all about that epic, large-scale PVE battle experience. There's so much content for smaller groups, even solo content in this game, but raiding is where you're supposed to get that big group experience. There's something amazing about working so closely and attentively with 40 other like-minded people and accomplishing tasks together that, for me, is just so much more rewarding that doing it with 10 or even 25.

But I'm realistic, and I know we're never going back to 40-mans, but god, I'm already cringing cause we're at 25, and I can handle 20, but anything less and I just don't think it would retain that epic large-scale PVE feel that really separates raiding from other areas of the game.

[Sky High]

10-15, I like rolling with smaller groups of people that I can get to know and share the experience with. larger groups just don't have that IMO.

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Personally I liked the WotLK model, 25 being the primary and number for raiding, and 10 being very pug friendly.
So 25.
20 might work out just the same though, am hoping.

lol I would have said the opposite, in wrath it was WAY easier to roll with pugs in 25m then 10.

[Deleted]

Definitely 10. 15 would have been fine, too but I have swapped from 10 to 25 for a few months now and even though I sort of expected to dislike it, I wasn't really prepared for how much I'd still be missing 10 man. Small, close knit group, lots of personal responsibility, etc. is absolutely the way I prefer raiding.

[Elios]

10 - 15 man at most....

25 man + - you dont know half of your raid ... you are aways carrying that 4~5 ppl that are just bad and waste your bresses and if you are a healer you are not playing against the boss but against the other healers, if someone is dying they are gonna look at the heals... and if you are not a disc priest i bet you are getting replaced...IN 10 man you have to work if the other healer to maintain the raid ok but in 25 its just a snipe healing fest extremely unpleasant to play.

[Shuttle]

20 man.

Anything under and I'd likely quit, zzz

[Raiju]

lol I would have said the opposite, in wrath it was WAY easier to roll with pugs in 25m then 10.

25 has eternally been where you can get away with more in pug content than 10man, because you're a significantly smaller portion of the raid group if you're shit. See Lei shi's comment about 10's being too hard.

In ICC 25's were tuned to be significantly harder than 10's. That changed in cata (well, reversed for most of 4.0 content) where we have a mix of fights harder on 10 and 25 each tier, with the intention that they are fairly similar.

@OP 10mannn, or 5man. Or more solo content.