Shadow Priests: What do you think about our current/WoD talent tree?

[Theed]

I'm not really happy with our talent tree and we didn't get many changes to our tree yet, so I'm curious:

Please tell me what you think about the current/WoD talent tree and what you would like to see changed if anything.



Looking at PVE and PVP

My perspective is mostly from a pvp standpoint:

Level 15: I like Spectral Guise and hate the other two as they are reduced by battle fatigue and are 100x less fun and boring compared to SG.

-> Rework/Replacement for Desperate Prayer and Angelic Bulwark needed.

Level 30: Phantasm and Feathers are cool, but the tier is unbalanced. Body and Soul is almost never taken because how bad it is compared to the other two talents. Feathers are too strong.

-> Balancing needed

Level 45: Rotation changing talents are cool; I really like Insanity and FDCL but Mindbender is again very boring and bad especially in pvp where everyone just fears, roots or aoe stuns it.

-> Rework/Buff Mindbender

Level 60: I'm glad they removed Psyfiend. Don't like talented Psychic Scream. Replace Dominate Mind and make it baseline. Add a casted spammable cc as replacement talent. Tendrils will be worse than Psychic Scream in any situation if they remain unchanged.

-> Balancing needed, Replace Dominate Mind

Level 75: Twist of Fate is too powerful in pve and almost useless in pvp. Power Infusion lacks a passive effect and/or the cooldown is too long. Divine Insight is the only choice for pvp spriests.

-> Rework ToF and Power Infusion

Level 90: Currently Divine Star is the best lvl 90 talent in pvp because of the self heal. Halo is good in some situations and Cascade is useless in pvp.

-> Add secondary effects to every lvl 90 talent, especially when the healing part will be removed

Level 100: Every talent looks cool. Needs testing. Void Entropy will be instantly dispelled in pvp.

-> Make Void Entropy undispelable or add dispel protection

[Dierdre]

Dominate Mind should be baseline. There has not been an instance since Naxx where it would warrant to be talented. Psychic Scream should remain baseline too.

Mindbender should be buffed. It's very rarely a choice vs FDCL/SWI. Same for PI. I only use those if I have to do belts on siegecrafter.

Divine Star should keep its healing and be an actual option vs cascade and halo.

[Volitar]

LEVEL 15 - First tier seems fine. 1 PVP talent and niche PVE talent and in general most fun talent for people who don't really care about maximizing. Passive for people who don't want to deal with another spell and DP which can be better but requires more skill to use correctly. Overall very happy.

LEVEL 30 - Retarded tier, Body and Soul was nerfed repeatedly and Feathers were buffed repeatedly and now we have the opposite where everyone uses feather and speed bubble is shit. Phantasm..I don't even know I kind of forget it existed. Much change needed.

LEVEL 45 - I think Insanity should become a baseless spell for Shadow..It just adds so much to the class and feels so right, whenever I have to unspec it the class just feels so off.

LEVEL 60 - This tier is retarded. That fear totem thing was so dumb I'm glad its gone but putting scream in its place was horrible. No one will ever choose the other two talents. Dominate mind is bad and should of just been left baseline as fun priesty spell.

LEVEL 75 - I would love to see PI get changed or buffed possibly a baseline spell.

LEVEL 90 - Really sad the spells are losing the healing, without healing I hardly see any point to taking DS on any fight.

LEVEL 100 - Clarity of power seems really gimmicky to me..Shadow with this talent will be the most braindead dps class. BC rotations were more complex than this talent.

[deviantcultist]

Given that they have provided dps versions of the halo/cascade/star spells, I think that the range management should be gone altogether. Minding the range for that matter should be no dps business.

[Juicebox]

Well... Seeing multistrike might not wont work for DI/FDCL, those talents could need tuning/a rework.
This isn't sure yet though and hopefully multistrike works with both talents.
Other than that I'm actually happy about the talents for Shadow. It's one spec they got it right with regarding switching depending on fight!

Only thing I'd like to see is a more complex rotation even though they're trimming down the abilities. I know it's hard to do though.

[Steehl]

Thus far, I'm really excited about our talents and the changes they've received.

15 and 60 switching places is great for leveling. I greatly approve.

With the buffs to Feathers, there's almost no reason to ever take BnS. The only reason I haven't used feathers is they tend to get snatched up by other people due to server lag, so I end up not even getting the speed boost for myself. With feathers now prioritizing the caster, they'll be the go-to. I forsee them buffing BnS's duration to compensate.

The 45 talents got even better with very little change. Our new Mastery makes both FDCL and Insanity so much better. The addition of DP having a chance to proc FDCL is a great addition as well. If Readiness continues to affect Shadowfiend, I imagine that'll transfer to Mindbender as well, which may give it potential to not be awful for shadow.

The 60 talents made me sad with the removal of Psyfiend. He was my little PvP buddy that saved me plenty when I'd get ganked (though I pretty much just run Void Tendrils now for raiding). Psychic Scream no longer being baseline will free up another keybind, I suppose. I don't really pvp enough that this tier impacts me that much.

The 75 talents are still pretty much the same, with DI getting the added proc chance from Mind Spike, giving further synergy with FDCL (and CoP!). I'd still like to see something done with PI to make it more interesting or comparable to the other two.

The 90 talents are all still the same, just doing more damage. I'd like to see Halo's range altered to be less wonky (needing an addon to find sweet spots, then hoping the target stays in that spot long enough for it to work is awful design). Each will still have their use, though I do think DS's damage will have to come up quite a bit to compete with Halo or Cascade, especially now with Mastery. The amount of damage it does per GCD will have to outweigh MF (or MSp with CoP), and given our mastery, I don't know how it could and still maintain a 15s CD. It'll be interesting to see some numbers passes on this tier.

The 100 talents. So gorgeous. CoP will hopefully be the single target savior we've been waiting for. Void Entropy will be absolutely awesome on Council fights. I forsee a lot of people defaulting to Auspicious Spirits though, for its easy-to-use style that won't really impact your playstyle as much (plus, 5 orb cap!). They're all three really great choices.

All in all, I'm excited for WoD.

[Aceveda]

Battle fatigue will be gone, so Desp/bulwark will be fine. Spectral guise is what needs rework/replacement, it doesn't fit priests either.

Angelic feather needs a nerf

Either pshycic scream or dominate mind should be baseline, priests have always had these 2 and they're the most balanced CC's.

[villie]

The 60 talents need looking at, with the amount they are toning down cc, an instant cast will be much more valuable making ps virtually mandatory in pvp unless your facing triple warrior!!

Also unless they dish out some new kiting abilities and with healing utility going away sp are going to end up even more trainable than they already are.

Cascade is not useless in pvp as well, it's amazing in rbg's will be your top damage ability in large group fights

[Calamari]

Wish Power Infusion would swap places with Shadowfiend, as having a single target only melee minion as our primary dps cd doesn't help much when we are AoEing for example, while PI is a reliable ST AND AoE dps boost. Either that or give us a glyph to let Shadowfiends cleave hard, guess that works too.

Since healing is going fromt he T90 spells, I'd love to see Divine Star turned into a "shotgun" style hard hitting cleave attack on nicely clumped up packs of mobs. Right now it just doesn't hit very hard at all.

Also they absolutely have to build in a HaloPro style interface element to help find the optimal range for the spells, something that is completely missing from the Blizz UI and can be very punishing for Halo damage output. Or even better just scrap the range penalty altogether on T90s as Deviantcultist suggested.

[Steehl]

Wish Power Infusion would swap places with Shadowfiend, as having a single target only melee minion as our primary dps cd doesn't help much when we are AoEing for example, while PI is a reliable ST AND AoE dps boost. Either that or give us a glyph to let Shadowfiends cleave hard, guess that works too.

I actually really like the idea of swapping PI and Shadowfiend, though it does cause problems with the Mindbender talent.

[Calamari]

I actually really like the idea of swapping PI and Shadowfiend, though it does cause problems with the Mindbender talent.

Aye that's true, well Yvaelle once made a great suggestion for the T45 row which might be worth digging up again: Basically replace Mindbender (and make Mindbender benefits baseline) with an AoE option in that tier:

Shadow Crash - Basically an AoE shadow orb finisher that lobs a large shadow mortar at the target location (basically the same spell that General Vezax and other Faceless minions use). That would give T45 a solid multidot, ST and AoE option.

[Yvaelle]

Battle fatigue will be gone, so Desp/bulwark will be fine. Spectral guise is what needs rework/replacement, it doesn't fit priests either.

Angelic feather needs a nerf

Either psychic scream or dominate mind should be baseline, priests have always had these 2 and they're the most balanced CC's.

Why don't you think Spectral Guise matches priests? I think it's one of the best additions they have made in ages for Shadow in particular

I could see a better solution being replacing it though and giving it to Shadow as a baseline spell




15: Changes to battle fatigue will help this choice a lot in PvP, but Spectral Guise provides some pretty critical functionality for high end arenas, while being nearly useless in PvE - so as above, it should be swapped to a Shadow Only spell possibly, and something else more survivability-ish should replace it (passive damage reduction, maybe? Like Aspect of the Iron Hawk?)

30: Body and Soul being buffed to 80% for 6 seconds would be pretty great Phantasm needs a buff, it sucks ever since the Phantasm nerf (I only use it for fmage comps to break their roots)

45: Mindbender and Insanity occupy the same niche, I've been saying this since MoP Beta - but one of them needs to do something other than single target damage. The solution is to replace Mindbender with an AoE Shadow Crash talent (General Vezax ability), that deals delayed burst damage at a ground targeted location once every ~30-45-60 seconds. Mindbender could become a baseline Shadowpriest cooldown though I don't want to lose my Shadow Octopus, he's so cute and cuddly compared to stuipd shadowfiend

60: Make Dominate Mind baseline on the Disorient school, give us a glyph that makes Dominated opponents cower rather than channel (major glyph though, this should be at the cost of a glyph), Glyph of Submission It would force them to /kneel, too I don't know what you put in place of Dominate Mind though, a stun? a knockback?

75: I like this tier except that Power Infusion is a mess. 20% haste + 5% damage? Dumb. You know what it should be? Archangel We want our wings back It can be +20% damage, or +30% haste or something, but it shouldn't be some weird mix: and it needs beautiful wings, and it should call us "Angels", and stroke our hair, and tell us that we're pretty *hugs Dark Archangel* <3

90: I agree with Theed, without the healing component the level 90 talents feel weird now. I would like to add though that Cascade is useful for pressure in RBGs, but so is Halo and it heals. When none of them heal though, they are going to feel kind of boring.

100: Void Entropy should be replaced - it's going to be terrible or OP (multidot fights) for pve with no middle ground, it will Never work for PvP (they won't make it undispellable, if they did it would mess up CC chains, and anything less than undispellable will never be useful).

I would recommend something that spawns a bunch of Apparitions (possibly at the cost of 3 Shadow Orbs), who then all channel a chorus of say... 6 Mind Flays (3 Apparitions to each side of us, plus our 7th Mind Flay in the middle) which converge on our target) - as a 1m single target burst cooldown or something Void Chorus, would be the name I would give it personally

Void Chorus would then differentiate from Auspicious Spirits which we will use for multidot (or Clarity of Power with DI+FDCL procs on an alternate target).

The simple solution if Auspicious Spirits proves too influential with our SO generation, is to make it so every 2nd, or every 3rd Apparition gives an orb - but with the loss of our mastery this may prove less of a problem: far better than a random 50% chance (which should be avoided).

[Overdispersion]

I think they need to rework our 90 talents. DS sucks single target, Halo sucks if used within 20y of target (just guessing, someone prob know the math) and Cascade is just bad and bland. DS and Cascade need to be reworked so they're viable single target options and Halo should be scaling from 50-100% rather than 10-100%. Maybe that'll make DS obsolete but perhaps DS hitting 4 targets or more generates a shadow orb or something like that.

[Calamari]

You know what it should be? Archangel We want our wings back It can be +20% damage, or +30% haste or something, but it shouldn't be some weird mix: and it needs beautiful wings, and it should call us "Angels", and stroke our hair, and tell us that we're pretty *hugs Dark Archangel* <3

Does it also comb our hair, sing us a lullaby and rock us to sleep before it departs..? Sounds extremely overpowered and overpleasant. Seriously though Archangel as a dps cooldown would be awesome to have back. (no offense to Shadowfiend..)

I think they need to rework our 90 talents. DS sucks single target, Halo sucks if used within 20y of target (just guessing, someone prob know the math) and Cascade is just bad and bland. DS and Cascade need to be reworked so they're viable single target options and Halo should be scaling from 50-100% rather than 10-100%. Maybe that'll make DS obsolete but perhaps DS hitting 4 targets or more generates a shadow orb or something like that.

They promised damage buffs to the T90 talents, can't find the tweet to link but Cele used those words at least. What I'd really love to see would be some interaction between the T90 spells and our dots.

For example Dark Star could act like a DKs "Outbreak", applying dots to all targets it hits. Same for Cascade (or simply make it hit really hard instead when it travel from max range). Halo could maybe extend dot durations, as it has been our go-to ST choice.

[MoanaLisa]

So far, every time they iterate on it I think it's gotten a little worse. Long way to go until launch though so reserving judgement for now.

[deviantcultist]

About lvl 90 talents, would you like it if it was like this?

Halo - Aoe based
Dark Star - Single Target based
Cascade - Cleave based

No range management requirements.

[Dyra]

TBH out of all the classes that I've played, I think Priest easily remains the best of all the trees. All the other specs I play (admittedly not to any high level) I place my points and there they remain for the most part except if I hit a certain ilvl/haste breakpoint for example, where another talent becomes better. While on my Priest, they can change entirely on a fight to fight basis. Just think, if it were possible to bring the numbers into line, irregardless of style of fight, while retaining the individuality of the talents, there would be more sub-specs of Priest then there would be classes in the game.

I do think there are certain tweaks, that aren't number tweaks, that could be made here and there to make it perfect though. I like the idea of the Shadow Crash mechanic in place of Mindbender, and having the squishy octopus be baseline. Psychic Scream should also be baseline no matter what. Phantasm (and to a lesser extent Spectral Guise) needs a tweak to become a bit more attractive to PvE. A minor change to make Cascade allowed to jump to the same target more than once, or for the penalty for shorter jumps to not be so bad, same with the scaling with distance for Halo

Other than the disparities in DPS for single target with the level 90 talents (story of Shadow vs. all the other specs right there), and some of the minor problems of Cascade, imo they remain the prime example of what talents should be. Also, the level 45, 75 and I think the new level 100 talents are also done very well. The fact that we love so many of them that we wish they were baseline, (I wish all the level 45 talents were baseline for Shadow for example) instead of having to make the choice between them also speaks volumes. Which is a lot more than can be said for other classes.

[Calamari]

When we /hug our Mindbender, it should lovingly wrap it's tentacles around us and squeeze us back.. don't even care for dps buffs, that's all I really want for christmas this year, Blizzred.

[Yvaelle]

When we /hug our Mindbender, it should lovingly wrap it's tentacles around us and squeeze us back.. don't even care for dps buffs, that's all I really want for christmas this year, Blizzred.

I would also agree to cuddles from Shadow Octopuses And the delightful, "Squrrrlrlrlrlrl!" of their excitement and friendship

Making classes more fun, IMO - is 90% giving us fun little bits like /hug animations to Mindbenders, or our Archangel wings back, or a beautiful, swirling Shadow Crash - and like... 10% buffing our damage to be competitive, so we don't feel bad for not rerolling Warlocks.

[XangXu]

Twist of Fate is far from useless in PVP.