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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post

    One word; BORING.

    You play any MMORPG like WoW to experience a world and partake in events, interact with players, and become a part of something beyond your every day existence. That's what was so magical about WoW and many MMOs when we all first began. Now we can't recall what made it so and it's really just that simple. They've become too predictable, too easy, and provide instant-gratification like it's going out of style. Flying is a part of the problem and nowhere near the solution to ANYTHING short of one's own inflated sense of self-importance.

    Really, it wasn't the challenges that turned many away. It wasn't the interactions and networking that turned us away. There is a reason games like Dark Souls can be so popular this day and age. Return to our roots with better story-telling, better combat, challenges(beyond "heroic" modes) better graphics, more immersive gameplay. That's what gamers in general want.

    I'd love to just be punished for trying to level. I want it to be grueling, hurtful to my self-esteem. I want to bloody cry. I remember trying to level in Stranglethorn during Vanilla. YOU KNOW HOW EFFING DEGRADING THAT WAS!?

    And it only made it all the sweeter when I maxed out and began punishing my enemies in return.
    I agree with you that we need a challenge while leveling. But once all that is over we should be able to use our flying mounts.
    Let me say this. I have played tons of other MMO's like Star Wars Galaxy, AION, Warhammer online, Rift, Star Wars the Old Republic, Guild Wars 1 and 2, Final Fantasy 11 and 14 and you know something they all suck and then something funny happens. I return to WOW. The reason being that I have FREEDOM using flying mounts while these other games suck at it. Its the main reason these games suck and its by FAR the #1 reason people began playing this game since burning crusade. If Blizzard removes this they will become like every other MMO game and people will LEAVE. I will bet you on this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    Hey, what other MMO has flying? On, none of them? Because it's a bad idea?

    Go ahead. Quit WoW. Where are you going to go?
    Dammit you beat me to it...LMAO

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    And if Blizz did that then they better expect a big backlash from the people who spent real money buying flying mounts in Blizz's precious crappy store..
    SHRUG! They can still use them, just only on the ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    Yeah lately I have seen a lot of back tracking by Blizz, the one that comes to mind is their touting of how awesome Garrisons are going to be to now only allowing them in the starting zones for each faction.. Wonder what next they will back track on besides flying..
    As a small time game developer myself, I understand that backtracking is inevitable, though thankfully I don't have a playerbase so dense and rabid that I'll never have a chance to say anything without it being used against me in the future somehow.

    You have ideas but later on when shit starts getting real you have to be more realistic. For a basic example I recently released a game that had multi-planetary exploration and sidequests planned along with a driving plot and several optional things, I realized that for with what time I had some features would have to be cut, so a lot of optional content had to be sacrificed in order for the main story and the gameplay to remain pleasing and so I could feasibly release it within the deadline I had set. Games are defined by the limits they are going to inevitably have because a game that does everything doesn't exist and if it did no other game would need to exist.

  3. #183
    Huge wall of text from the blues that says nothing. Nice work guys.

    So basically, we went from "you will get flying in 6.1" to - "we're not sure now". Sounds like never to me. I am so glad I am unsubbed right now. I'm not paying to run the same raid and content for a year plus, and then paying again for an expansion that is removing more shit than it adds.

    I don't give a damn if Blizzard thinks that flying was a mistake. Its part of the game now and has been for 7 years. They handled it masterfully in TBC, WoTLK and let us use it for leveling in Cataclysm which was great. MoP was a big step back to be honest. It is why I and so many others hardly leveled any alts. I mean, who wants to run the same stale content all over again?

    All Blizzard needed to do was adopt either the WoTLK, TBC or Cata method of dealing with flying and pretty much everyone is happy.

    It is still only a few players that know about no flying. Come first 2 weeks into WoD release there will be a huge backlash when the masses learn that there won't be flying at all.

    I do admit I miss WoW, but this game has lost so much of what made it fun, I fear it will never be worth subscribing again.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Teetster View Post
    It is still only a few players that know about no flying. Come first 2 weeks into WoD release there will be a huge backlash when the masses learn that there won't be flying at all.

    I do admit I miss WoW, but this game has lost so much of what made it fun, I fear it will never be worth subscribing again.
    You hit the first nail on the coffin...Well lets say the first month...LMAO
    The ones defending this are the ones that will go to space in a space shuttle with no oxygen in it.

  5. #185
    Dreadlord theostrichsays's Avatar
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    Running the same stale content over and over? I am fairly certain I have been doing that since Molten Core, what makes now any different, or more worthy of complaint...
    I am fairly certain anytime anyone levels an alt it is the same stale content unless its a new race for you, even then once your out of your starting area... back to the same stuff.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by -Skye View Post
    It's a RAF Mount.
    Ah shit! I don't have friends...

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by War30 View Post
    I really feel sorry for you for you are the one whining and complaining.
    What... How is telling you to stop being an assumptuous moron complaining?
    Quote Originally Posted by War30 View Post
    I'm old enough to UNDERSTAND what is right and what is deceiving. I'm not a sheep like you.
    Ahahaha, oh my god. I play at most 5 hours of WoW a week. I'm about as far from sheep as you can get. I'm just being logical and as real as I can be. There's not much profit to be earned from aggravating half of your fanbase.
    Quote Originally Posted by War30 View Post
    There has been no shred of proof why this feature is being removed. Why all of a sudden the change? Burning crusade and Lich king had no problems with it because we had to level up 10 lvs. The problem was with Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria where we were only leveling 5 levels which we burned through fast. That was there problem on why people were getting through the content fast. So tell me what are you afraid of? That people will wise up for the first time since this game was released and go play something else and ruin you gaming experience with those you raid with.
    I don't even raid you fucking retard and I seldom play with other people which makes your assumption an ignorant and useless addendum to your inquiry. Not to mention you can't FLY IN RAIDS ANYWAY so I have no idea what that has to do with it. WoW for me is an experience I enjoy mostly with my own company, not everyone is an attention craving dickweed whose social circle is the only valuable asset they have in life. I certainly do have enough free time to play WoW relogiously but it's a game I find better in smaller doses.

    I don't know why they haven't decided to do this until now, but I don't see why there'd be any reason to drag out the content like you're implying they are going to do, your paying by the month for the month. They are probably going to damage sales more with this change than improve them. It's immersion I'm more interested in, which flying takes away from. I'm not afraid of anything, but I'd like the world not to feel as dead if that answers your question.
    Quote Originally Posted by War30 View Post
    I"m paying for a FULL gaming experience. Correction. WE ARE ALL PAYING for a full gaming experience and we as customers should get that.
    Your payment entitles you to jack shit. They could do things far more controversial and get away with it, if you don't like it, then you are more than welcome to cancel your subscription, no one is going to be upset if you leave. Besides there are plenty of good games that have flight and it is integral from the start, a new one that's coming out soon looks quite promising that I found out about on this thread. World of Warcraft was never designed with flight in mind, since it seems they are only not allowing you to fly only in Draenor after all then the appeal for me is sort of lost, but again it's very much a technical hurdle and as stated they've designed max level outdoor content in Draenor that flying would jeopardize. You like flying? Cool, go back to Azeroth or outland to go nuts with it, if you don't like questing, awesome! Go straight to raiding which also doesn't allow flight...?

    What are YOU afraid of?

    Quote Originally Posted by War30 View Post
    You know what I really see happening. Remember this, OK. What BLIZZARD is really doing is that they are going to charge you the LOYAL consumer 25 bucks in there store to use flying mounts. This is there plan. I have foreseen this and everyone better be prepared for this for if you buy this feature you are a bunch of idiots.
    That's a possibility, but unlikely. We'll have to see but I didn't consider that, again it just sounds like some sort of tinfoil hat theory, Blizzard has never in the past given pay to win functionality, it's always been cosmetic or things that won't effect others. If you look at all their previous things they've added, it's never been to disservice those from a competitive standpoint those who simply can't afford it. I'm not counting Horde / Alliance PVP imbalance and faction change because that's a result of players and it was implemented originally to help circumvent that, not extort it.

    There's no REMEMBER THIS for a thing which has not yet happened. Levelling to 90 for a fee doesn't effect the experience of other players. Nor does taking away flight for all players, or allowing you to change your race, faction, appearance, name server et cetera.

    What your tinfoiling about is as likely to happen as every other crackpot "premium feature" we've heard about. Blizzard's only pay to win feature is paying for the game subscription, which again, doesn't effect anyone it shouldn't.

    You can stop trying so hard to find avarice in what Blizzard does, make you seem like a zealous anti-sheep which is ironic considering your half-baked assumption about me. You're being fucking ridiculous. This almost seems like you pulled it out of the air to avoid admitting the unfortunate reality that you're an idiot, which was a futile practice to begin with and this only helped further show how rooted you are in ... I dunno, what are you even trying to do except complain and ask for an answer as to why this has happened despite multitudes being offered?
    Last edited by Bizarre Monkey; 2014-04-26 at 06:26 AM.

  8. #188
    Looks like a fuckin gay red dog... With a golden dildo coming out of his forehead.

    SHITTY WORKMANSHIP BLIZZ!

  9. #189
    The Patient
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    I'm optimistically hoping that the friends part of the mount refers to being able to ride this lovely horse. However, my dubious side says this will be a RAF mount. I used to get all the mounts however they were offered, but its just costing too much money now. If it's an RAF mount I will just not bother trying to get it.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bizarre Monkey View Post
    SHRUG! They can still use them, just only on the ground.

    As a small time game developer myself, I understand that backtracking is inevitable, though thankfully I don't have a playerbase so dense and rabid that I'll never have a chance to say anything without it being used against me in the future somehow.

    You have ideas but later on when shit starts getting real you have to be more realistic. For a basic example I recently released a game that had multi-planetary exploration and sidequests planned along with a driving plot and several optional things, I realized that for with what time I had some features would have to be cut, so a lot of optional content had to be sacrificed in order for the main story and the gameplay to remain pleasing and so I could feasibly release it within the deadline I had set. Games are defined by the limits they are going to inevitably have because a game that does everything doesn't exist and if it did no other game would need to exist.
    Why I was never a sucker for buying crap from Blizz's store.. lol

    As for your second part can totally understand sometimes how and why these things happen, but unfortunately as you know this is the WoW community you are talking about, as Obi Wan Kenobi once said "Mos Isely a wretched hive of scum and villainy." That is how I see some of the WoW community, though I have seen folks talk about other games communities being even worse..

    I think (and probably wrong) you would have thought Blizz would have learnt by now not to hype certain aspects of the game so much especially when it comes to gaming communities that will tear apart any bit of info they get and go either yay or boo..

    And even more so when it comes to the point that they can't make it happen for whatever reason..
    Last edited by grexly75; 2014-04-26 at 06:19 AM.

  11. #191
    Personally I'm gonna reserve judgement on the no flying thing until I actually play WoD and see how it is. My most enjoyable time in game was during the days of no flying whatsoever, so I see no reason to dismiss it now. I actually wish it had never been implemented, it makes the game world feel tiny and largely insignificant to me. Plus we can still use all our mounts on land, we aren't being "crippled" like that one angry guy said. Not flying is not being crippled, come on.

  12. #192
    You introduced flying to make the game feel more immersive and now you back step by saying that it somehow takes away from the experience. The example you gave, "Having to invade a fort" is lousy. I rarely see a fort with the boss right outside, but id rather fly to that fort than get smacked around and dazed before i make it near the door and get ganked cause i had to fight off the adds that dismounted me. Professions suffer because the process of gathering herbs, and mining nodes will take longer, increasing their costs and hurting the markets as a result. You're making the exact same mistake you did with Pandaria and that's that Questing is not the soul content of the game. No matter how you spin it, killing 3a 3b 3c 1d is not revolutionary content.

    What blows me away even more, is the fact that you refuse to add the immersion of having 3D combat. Fights you can engage in the air as well as on the ground. There's something to be said about having an epic flight up a cliff, shooting down mobs while you fly to arrive at the top, enter a fortress and kill a boss for a quest. There can be Anti Aircraft missiles that try to shoot you down if you don't evade them. Skyriders and Grons that try to swat you outta the air. The game does not have to be designed for the ground only, this sounds like the same quest system you've always had and are not innovating one little bit. You could have more elaborate hiding places like you did for those small treasures in pandaria, maybe even make them appraisable, turning them into loot, items, potions, zone buffs or flat out exp. Rares could require mid air combat, you could add dynamic abilities to flight as well, like fatigue, sprinting, diving, and have it all dependent on that kind of system.

    I think the real answer was, you wanted to just make an expansion. Nothing of particular note, just something with the same kind of framework as the last, easy to develop, low cost, and whats easier than designing the same content you have for the last 4 expansions. =/

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Violent View Post
    Looks like a fuckin gay red dog... With a golden dildo coming out of his forehead.

    SHITTY WORKMANSHIP BLIZZ!
    They were being courteous by not setting us back anther raid tier, though!

    Pffahahahaha... I'm so funny.

  14. #194
    if that’s how someone wants to play the game they should be allowed to.
    Removes flying...

    At the end of the day however they want to cut it whatever "benefits" (and I don't believe there are any) removing flying brings to the game, they are still removing a feature that lots of people use, that lots of people like, that adds far more to the game that it takes away. Removal is removal, however much lipstick they put on it.

    And it's gone from coming back in 6.1, to 6.1 with legendary style quest to them not knowing when it's coming back, well from my perspective the idea of a continent let alone a whole expansion of Timeless Isle 2.0 fills me with dread, so I'll tell them what, they can let me know when flying is back and I'll resub.

  15. #195
    So Blizz is removing stealth from rogues and druids? Otherwise they could still skip all the trash in the fortress example.

  16. #196
    removing flying does absolutely nothing.

    what do people do on timeless isle? they dont think you fight every single tiger you ride by, do they? people will always avoid mobs of no interest.

  17. #197
    People acting like no flying will bring another level to the game need to wake up from their daydreaming.

    They're doing this rather than adding more complex AI, more dangers to the skies, more aerial defenses etc etc. We have been leveling on the ground in all expansions apart from Cataclysm, pretending it'll be new and amazing = being optimistic to the point of being naive.

    It won't bring back the feeling you had in Vanilla, no matter how rabidly you try to defend their decision and make yourself believe it will. Mounted combat, monsters patrolling the skies, mobs actually taking notice of you flying and acting upon it and so on would be innovative. Removing a feature that made the game unique for a long time and calling it doing what's best for the game = the easier way out. They could minimize sub losses from alienating pro-flying players by actually putting their backs into content being more appealing WITH flying included rather than putting their hopes in people being addicted enough to stick with them even as they backtrack.

    And before some genius comes along saying that the pro-flying players quitting isn't bad for the game...of course it's bloody bad for the game, ALL sub losses are bad. The people being anti-flying enough to unsub, did so 7-8 years ago, and this game peaked at a whopping 12 million players despite flying being around.

    The issue is not in flying being available at max level. The issue is Blizzard losing their innovative streak and ability to renew themselves by moving forward rather than backwards. And guess what, the people not giving a single shit about content and just rushing to max level and instanced content, will keep doing just that. With or without flying. As someone that cares about immersing myself and experiencing content, I have never been stumped by flying. On the contrary.

    Flying has been the dream of human beings for as long as we have been intelligent enough to take notice of the flight of birds. But hey, it's logical to "encourage" exploration and "increasing" freedom by removing it from a fantasy world where it has been available for almost as long as said fantasy world has been in existence!
    Last edited by Rorcanna; 2014-04-26 at 06:49 AM.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by LlionDS View Post
    You introduced flying to make the game feel more immersive and now you back step by saying that it somehow takes away from the experience.
    Not sure if they ever said flying was added for immersion, they probably said it was a cool idea they thought would be fun, I have no idea though.
    Quote Originally Posted by LlionDS View Post
    The example you gave, "Having to invade a fort" is lousy. I rarely see a fort with the boss right outside, but id rather fly to that fort than get smacked around and dazed before i make it near the door and get ganked cause i had to fight off the adds that dismounted me.
    You'll just have to be a bit less lazy, mate.
    Quote Originally Posted by LlionDS View Post
    Professions suffer because the process of gathering herbs, and mining nodes will take longer, increasing their costs and hurting the markets as a result.
    That's such an insubstantial concern it almost hurt my brain to calculate. It all comes out even, takes more time, costs more money, and everything inflates accordingly.
    Quote Originally Posted by LlionDS View Post
    You're making the exact same mistake you did with Pandaria and that's that Questing is not the soul content of the game. No matter how you spin it, killing 3a 3b 3c 1d is not revolutionary content.
    Shrug! The "Soul content of the game" is a matter of subjective observation.

    Quote Originally Posted by LlionDS View Post
    What blows me away even more, is the fact that you refuse to add the immersion of having 3D combat. Fights you can engage in the air as well as on the ground. There's something to be said about having an epic flight up a cliff, shooting down mobs while you fly to arrive at the top, enter a fortress and kill a boss for a quest.
    That's a lot of effort to implement.
    Quote Originally Posted by LlionDS View Post
    There can be Anti Aircraft missiles that try to shoot you down if you don't evade them.
    You mean like the Fel Cannons in BC? Yeah whatever happened to those. Thing was you couldn't evade them because the game isn't hitbox focused and the amount of time and money to make the game hitbox focused is a large and ambitious cost, also for someone like me who lives in Australia without any local servers the game becomes unplayable because of latency issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by LlionDS View Post
    Skyriders and Grons that try to swat you outta the air. The game does not have to be designed for the ground only, this sounds like the same quest system you've always had and are not innovating one little bit.
    Draenor doesn't have floating islands all around like Outland did, and again THERE'S NO FLYING UNTIL MAX LEVEL ANYWAY so this point is null. If you mean beyond max level, yeah fair enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by LlionDS View Post
    You could have more elaborate hiding places like you did for those small treasures in pandaria, maybe even make them appraisable, turning them into loot, items, potions, zone buffs or flat out exp. Rares could require mid air combat, you could add dynamic abilities to flight as well, like fatigue, sprinting, diving, and have it all dependent on that kind of system.
    Those are all great ideas. Though hefty to implement, I liked the idea of dogfights when they were first mentioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by LlionDS View Post
    I think the real answer was, you wanted to just make an expansion. Nothing of particular note, just something with the same kind of framework as the last, easy to develop, low cost, and whats easier than designing the same content you have for the last 4 expansions. =/
    I wish people would stop making assumptions they can't prove are true, it's really quite childish. Though I agree that at first glance that is what I'd think too. I try to remain logical and fair when debating these sort of things because being singleminded like a few of the legendary idiots on this thread is extremely brutish, and I am too well dressed to partake in that kind of barbaric idolatry. I'll admit that if the sort of innovation you mentioned above was available as a choice between it and no flight, especially knowing now that no flight is only for Draenor and not everywhere like I had hoped, then I would have gone with epic dogfights and secrets and stuff.

    I find often that despite my pessimistic nature I am rather easy to please. I also tend to not become entitled because I pay 15 dollars a week so that other people do kind of annoys me, which is why I'm on a verbal rampage on this thread.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by thebdc View Post
    So Blizz is removing stealth from rogues and druids? Otherwise they could still skip all the trash in the fortress example.
    HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA...Isn't that hypocritical of them. I forgot about that and the mobs in the world to get nodes, herbs ex..

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    People acting like no flying will bring another level to the game need to wake up from their daydreaming.

    They're doing this rather than adding more complex AI, more dangers to the skies, more aerial defenses etc etc. We have been leveling on the ground in all expansions apart from Cataclysm, pretending it'll be new and amazing = being optimistic to the point of being naive.

    It won't bring back the feeling you had in Vanilla, no matter how rabidly you try to defend their decision and make yourself believe it will. Mounted combat, monsters patrolling the skies, mobs actually taking notice of you flying and acting upon it and so on would be innovative. Removing a feature that made the game unique for a long time and calling it doing what's best for the game = the easier way out. They could minimize sub losses from alienating pro-flying players by actually putting their backs into content being more appealing WITH flying included rather than putting their hopes in people being addicted enough to stick with them even as they backtrack.

    And before some genius comes along saying that the pro-flying players quitting isn't bad for the game...of course it's bloody bad for the game, ALL sub losses are bad. The people being anti-flying enough to unsub, did so 7-8 years ago, and this game peaked at a whopping 12 million players despite flying being around.

    The issue is not in flying being available at max level. The issue is Blizzard losing their innovative streak and ability to renew themselves by moving forward rather than backwards. And guess what, the people not giving a single shit about content and just rushing to max level and instanced content, will keep doing just that. With or without flying. As someone that cares about immersing myself and experiencing content, I have never been stumped by flying. On the contrary.
    agreed, flight adds another dimension to the game, why not iterate on the current model?

    hell, we were promised air combat in wrath even. the skies arent dangerous? make them dangerous! make people decide what path is best: on the ground, or in the air.

    also, from a design perspective if you remove flight it severely limits the kinds of zones you can create. no stuff like icecrown, storm peaks, deepholm, etc.

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